Goon

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

You all are a bunch of Goonies for actively being in this thread.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

He was capable, but just not very good at it (contrary to what GMR Wings says )...Dunno if Babcock/Holland want to see our skill guys going toe-to-toe with an opponent whom is better suited for such activities.

He slipped, O.K. How many times do I have to explain it, already?

However, watch what he does to Souray at the end of this fight. BOOM!!!

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

I don't know how anyone can say that Maltby IS a good penalty killer. He used to be, sure... but he's lost a step and is basically worn right out now. He made some noise in the playoffs, but he's pretty much done.

You want to argue that he played on the PK? He was 10th on the team in PK time on ice. He played a total of 98:36 on the PK all season. Guess who played about 3:30 less than him? The defensive liability known as Brian Rafalski. It's one thing if you wanna say Malts provides some good leadership and at least attempts to bring it in the post-season, but don't call the guy a good PK'er or say he spends a lot of time on the PK. He doesn't.

Exactly. He keeps talking about Babcock. Well considering Maltby is 10th on the team in PK minutes, he's right, let's listen to Babcock. lol I guess some people just suffer from delusions of granger. Although I shouldn't say "people," considering shoreline is the only person on these forums that actually thinks Maltby is a good and effective PK'er still. I just have to repeat something again....10th on the team in PK time on ice! HAHAHA I love it! Wish I would have checked that stat beforehand. Shoreline = Delusional.

Edited August 4, 2009 by TheDetroitRedWings

[Guest micah]

They'd bring PIMs to the table. They wouldn't play in the playoffs, as customary with this team, so you'd have a person sitting in the press box taking up cap space. Good thing you're not a GM.

Good thing for the Pens, Ray Shero is. He played his goon when it payed to play a goon, and didn't when it didn't. He is the manager of the only current NHL champions. He's a smart guy. He set out this year to defeat the defending Cup champions, and he did it. Now he's tasked with making his team even better, so what does he do? He brings in more muscle-bound meanies, the sort that make prog rock fanboys uneasy. Maybe he doesn't know what he's doing. I suspect he does - I mean, he's the only current champion GM in the entire league. Sure there are GMs who won in previous years and others who came close, but only one who could get it done in today's game.

I bet Kirk Maltby is afraid Eric Godard will give him a wedgie if he ever sees him at the mall.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Don't we need someone to fill in for Kopecky's 10 minutes of ice time on the 4th line?

[titanium2 867]

What if Helm suddenly learned to fight this past summer? I think I'd be okay with that. He doesn't have the hands of Pav or Z anyways.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Don't we need someone to fill in for Kopecky's 10 minutes of ice time on the 4th line?

So long as a few molecules of air collide with one another out of the ice surface I think we can simulate the effect.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

That's funny because I've posted on this very forum for the last 5-6 seasons. You have the wonderful foresight of a blind person. You might need an equivalent sight dog to help you with posting too.

SO if Malts is not an effective PKer, why the f*** is he always on the PK? Is Babs retarded and you're brilliant? Where are your cup championships? Why did team Canada select him and not Mac?

They'd bring PIMs to the table. They wouldn't play in the playoffs, as customary with this team, so you'd have a person sitting in the press box taking up cap space. Good thing you're not a GM.

Because Maltby does more than your awesome goon would. I take it from the current coach that this is what the situation is. You, on the other hand, are probably getting your cues from something else. I dunno, an obsession with goons? NHL 09? Who knows, who cares. It's wrong.

Oh dear you really refuted me. Maltby sucks so bad team Canada selects him, and Babs plays him on the PK, and Malts, as you claim, cannot do it without Drapes or Mac. Who's the foolish one? Maybe if you post "read" a few more times you'll compensate for a horrendous argument.

Sounds like a UFC/WWE enforcer in speedos. Are we talking about me here, or you? Sounds a lot like you and your tough guys.

Did Shoreline just put someone over his knee?

[Electrophile 3,554]

Did Shoreline just put someone over his knee?

Not only was it funny, it was a reminder of why I usually stay the hell out of GD until the season starts. That was epic. Just epic.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

So long as a few molecules of air collide with one another out of the ice surface I think we can simulate the effect.

Hey, that's not fair. You're really underplaying Kopecky's ability to get during or right before the playoffs.

Anyone know of a 4th line guy with size (but doesn't use it), a friend and countryman who's a superstar and the ability to get spectacularly injured? (coccyx!)

What about that 3rd line kid who was best buddies with Crosby until he got traded to Atlanta?

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

What if Helm suddenly learned to fight this past summer? I think I'd be okay with that. He doesn't have the hands of Pav or Z anyways.

He'd be the most entertaining player in the league my money. His hustle, his clutch goals in the post season, his physical play, and then add fighting on top?

[titanium2 867]

He'd be the most entertaining player in the league my money. His hustle, his clutch goals in the post season, his physical play, and then add fighting on top?

The guy is ripped as all hell. He's in great shape. I remember Downey once saying how that's definitely one of the most important things in a scrap.

But Helm is 182. Downey was 216. Maybe there's a technique common for lightweights that are quicker than most.

[skacore 2]

The guy is ripped as all hell. He's in great shape. I remember Downey once saying how that's definitely one of the most important things in a scrap.

But Helm is 182. Downey was 216. Maybe there's a technique common for lightweights that are quicker than most.

I'd be willing to bet Helm could naturally whoop most guys on our team despite the size difference. A Canadian boy who went through the meat grinder known as the WHL, he's obviously rock solid from the way he hits and has shown he's got incredibly quickness and will. I doubt he would need many lessons to become a good fighter.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

The guy is ripped as all hell. He's in great shape. I remember Downey once saying how that's definitely one of the most important things in a scrap.

But Helm is 182. Downey was 216. Maybe there's a technique common for lightweights that are quicker than most.

I'm sure Helm will throw down a couple times in his career, and he was a WHLer and has fought before, but I cant wait till he gets some tough linemates. Ferraro whenever he's ready and Abdelkader next year (and hopefully the playoffs)

I loved the grind line, and a line of Abdelkader-Helm-Ferraro just intrigues the s*** out of me. There all decent offensively, love to hit, and 2 of them can scrap. (Plus there good north american boys )

[Duck Guy 86]

How bout this...

To PHI from ANA: 2nd Rd Pick + Robby Nieds (after he is resigned)

To ANA from PHI: Chris Pronger

then...

To DET from ANA: Chris Pronger + Bag of signed teemu pucks

To ANA from DET: Pavel, Lids, and Z

just say the word and I will make the call. You can even call pronger's "move" the people's elbow

[Textbook 1]

March 26, 1997 was an epic night.

I have the entire game in a digital file that I can watch whenever I want. I watch that game and I think about the Red Wings of now. I cannot name a single game in over 12 years that has been as entertaining as that one.

It really is simple for me, in what year was it just all-around better to be a Red Wings fan? 1997 or 2008? To me, it's not even close. While I thought the Red Wings would win in 2008 it did not mean as much as it did in 1997. To me, to the state, to the team itself.

I'm also not stupid enough to say that the Red Wings need enforcers / tough guys / goons to win games. They don't. They have proven that.

Enforcers / tough guys / goons are better for entertainment though. I do value the entertainment aspect of hockey. Last year's regular season was boring. Detroit winning the game is not the be all, end all for me. For some people on here, it seems like it is. Win at all costs , even if that means making it the most boring game to watch. I can't handle that.

I would take the Red Wings of '97 in a heart beat. They were never boring.

Edited August 5, 2009 by Textbook

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

March 26, 1997 was an epic night.

I have the entire game in a digital file that I can watch whenever I want. I watch that game and I think about the Red Wings of now. I cannot name a single game in over 12 years that has been as entertaining as that one.

It really is simple for me, in what year was it just all-around better to be a Red Wings fan? 1997 or 2008? To me, it's not even close. While I thought the Red Wings would win in 2008 it did not mean as much as it did in 1997. To me, to the state, to the team itself.

I'm also not stupid enough to say that the Red Wings need enforcers / tough guys / goons to win games. They don't. They have proven that.

Enforcers / tough guys / goons are better for entertainment though. I do value the entertainment aspect of hockey. Last year's regular season was boring. Detroit winning the game is not the be all, end all for me. For some people on here, it seems like it is. Win at all costs , even if that means making it the most boring game to watch. I can't handle that.

I would take the Red Wings of '97 in a heart beat. They were never boring.

This ^

[egroen 384]

Games in the 80s were entertaining, no question about it, with Probert and Co. running around busting people up and Yzerman wowing on a nightly basis... but I would never trade a winning team for that. 90s were a nice hybrid that was great - but I just see the lack of Shanahan-type power forwards and goons as simply the price to be paid for remaining competitive for so long. Detroit has had to do it without high draft picks for 15 years now (and pretty much every single big, rough, skilled canadian goes in the first round) and Detroit no longer has the luxury of just buying whatever holes they are missing like they did in the past. They have to look to Europe and mine little-known talents in order to remain at the type of the league - and they don't fight in Europe.

Loyalty has also played a role in that, as I am sure Holland would love to bring in some tough 4th liners, but he currently has Draper and Maltby down there and is not about to trade them before their salaries are out. I guarantee he uses them as examples of "Detroit taking care of their own" to free agents.

[Guest micah]

March 26, 1997 was an epic night.

I have the entire game in a digital file that I can watch whenever I want. I watch that game and I think about the Red Wings of now. I cannot name a single game in over 12 years that has been as entertaining as that one.

It really is simple for me, in what year was it just all-around better to be a Red Wings fan? 1997 or 2008? To me, it's not even close. While I thought the Red Wings would win in 2008 it did not mean as much as it did in 1997. To me, to the state, to the team itself.

I'm also not stupid enough to say that the Red Wings need enforcers / tough guys / goons to win games. They don't. They have proven that.

Enforcers / tough guys / goons are better for entertainment though. I do value the entertainment aspect of hockey. Last year's regular season was boring. Detroit winning the game is not the be all, end all for me. For some people on here, it seems like it is. Win at all costs , even if that means making it the most boring game to watch. I can't handle that.

I would take the Red Wings of '97 in a heart beat. They were never boring.

'Zactly.

I like winning. Hell, I love winning. But I don't sit for 2.5 hours and watch a hockey game just to see if my team wins - I expect a little something more. I want to be entertained, or at least have a reasonable chance of being entertained.

Some guy on here keeps posting about how some football team was really good for a while and then they sucked, and people complained about them when they were good because of something or other. I dunno, maybe the players were all soft Euros? I don't remember the details, it didn't leave much of a mark on me. Anyway, what I'm saying is, I wouldn't be too thrilled if my favorite football team had a Running Back who was guaranteed 3.5 yards every time he ran the ball up the middle. All my team would have to do was that one play, all game long. They would win alot of games, and a few championships I suspect. I would enjoy the wins, but I wouldn't enjoy the games very much.

[Guest micah]

Games in the 80s were entertaining, no question about it, with Probert and Co. running around busting people up and Yzerman wowing on a nightly basis... but I would never trade a winning team for that. 90s were a nice hybrid that was great - but I just see the lack of Shanahan-type power forwards and goons as simply the price to be paid for remaining competitive for so long. Detroit has had to do it without high draft picks for 15 years now (and pretty much every single big, rough, skilled canadian goes in the first round) and Detroit no longer has the luxury of just buying whatever holes they are missing like they did in the past. They have to look to Europe and mine little-known talents in order to remain at the type of the league - and they don't fight in Europe.

Loyalty has also played a role in that, as I am sure Holland would love to bring in some tough 4th liners, but he currently has Draper and Maltby down there and is not about to trade them before their salaries are out. I guarantee he uses them as examples of "Detroit taking care of their own" to free agents.

I understand and agree with all of that - but we had Downey last year. We played Downey last year, quite a bit. Downey didn't cost the Wings games - he certainly didn't get in the way of the Wings winning a Championship. Downey gave Wings games the possibility of fireworks. Why ship him down? Why not resign him for league min?

[egroen 384]

I understand and agree with all of that - but we had Downey last year. We played Downey last year, quite a bit. Downey didn't cost the Wings games - he certainly didn't get in the way of the Wings winning a Championship. Downey gave Wings games the possibility of fireworks. Why ship him down? Why not resign him for league min?

As Maltby and Draper become less and less effective (and Holmstrom), it would make me a bit uneasy to have someone like Downey on the team.

In 2008 he played 56 games and averaged 4 minutes a game with 3 points and 10 fights.

I liked him there, no question - but I expressed my horror earlier at the possibility of a Maltby Draper Downey line and I think you agreed, suggesting carrying Downey as the 13th forward, alternating between Maltby and Draper as needed.

That's better... but I'm not sure it is the best option. Maltby and Draper are both now officially overpaid, and you are suggesting essentially adding on a $500k cap hit to the already bloated $2.4m cap hit for these two players. Now you would have almost $3m going towards essentially 'two' (with Downey alternating in) 4th line players. It's too much. Especially for a team that struggled defensively last year and saw 1/3 of its offense walk out the door.

I am absolutely not against the idea of signing him in GR and calling him up at times, as he passes through waivers pretty easily, but am strongly against carrying him on the active roster this year. Once Maltby is off the books, I think you have a much better case.

[Guest micah]

As Maltby and Draper become less and less effective (and Holmstrom), it would make me a bit uneasy to have someone like Downey on the team.

In 2008 he played 56 games and averaged 4 minutes a game with 3 points and 10 fights.

I liked him there, no question - but I expressed my horror earlier at the possibility of a Maltby Draper Downey line and I think you agreed, suggesting carrying Downey as the 13th forward, alternating between Maltby and Draper as needed.

That's better... but I'm not sure it is the best option. Maltby and Draper are both now officially overpaid, and you are suggesting essentially adding on a $500k cap hit to the already bloated $2.4m cap hit for these two players. Now you would have almost $3m going towards essentially 'two' (with Downey alternating in) 4th line players. It's too much. Especially for a team that struggled defensively last year and saw 1/3 of its offense walk out the door.

I am absolutely not against the idea of signing him in GR and calling him up at times, as he passes through waivers pretty easily, but am strongly against carrying him on the active roster this year. Once Maltby is off the books, I think you have a much better case.

I'm not bothered by the possiblity of a Draper/Maltby/no-talent-goon 4th line, because I don't think it would play more than a few bang-up shifts per night. 2 minutes at reg strength seems about right. Maltby/Draper/Datsyuk wouldn't be a good enough line to warrant significant minutes. I don't want a Maltby/Draper/anyone line playing a regualr shift this year. The Wings no longer have the ability to roll 4 lines like they used to. I'm not convinced that that's necesarily a bad thing, either. I'd love to have 4 quality lines with well-defined roles, each a scoring threat and none a liability, but that just won't be the Red Wings in 09/10. I think we'll still win games at a pretty fair clip and be contenders for the Cup.

I can't speak to the cap thing, because I am a cap retard and steadfgastly refuse to klearn the ins and outs of it.

IF Holmstrom is demoted to the 4th line, then I'm in favor of carrying to thug for this year. We need Homer, and I hope he is planted on a 4th line that never players. I would be pretty happy to see a 1 year Homer Draper Maltby line that never saw 1 minute of even strength time.

Edited August 5, 2009 by micah

[egroen 384]

I'm not bothered by the possiblity of a Draper/Maltby/no-talent-goon 4th line, because I don't think it would play more than a few bang-up shifts per night. 2 minutes at reg strength seems about right. Maltby/Draper/Datsyuk wouldn't be a good enough line to warrant significant minutes. I don't want a Maltby/Draper/anyone line playing a regualr shift this year. The Wings no longer have the ability to roll 4 lines like they used to. I'm not convinced that that's necesarily a bad thing, either. I'd love to have 4 quality lines with well-defined roles, each a scoring threat and none a liability, but that just won't be the Red Wings in 09/10. I think we'll still win games at a pretty fair clip and be contenders for the Cup.

I can't speak to the cap thing, because I am a cap retard and steadfgastly refuse to klearn the ins and outs of it.

IF Holmstrom is demoted to the 4th line, then I'm in favor of carrying to thug for this year. We need Homer, and I hope he is planted on a 4th line that never players. I would be pretty happy to see a 1 year Homer Draper Maltby line that never saw 1 minute of even strength time.

Holmstrom on a 4th line is utterly useless -- I hope he has not fallen that much and he can make a decent recovery from his injuries.

In that scenario, you are literally talking about $5.25 million in dead weight of a 4th line that hardly ever plays. That is huge.

Every championship team Detroit has seen has rolled 4 effective lines, even in the playoffs. If not, you better pray to the hockey gods you do not get any significant injuries.

[Ham on Wheels 0]

lol I guess some people just suffer from delusions of granger.

So everybody is just going to ignore that, or what?