Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2009 Grier can do everything Homer can do and more. I bet his stats would look pretty good too if he played top line minutes (including PP) with Zetts and Dats. Who wouldn't? I love Homer, but it ain't like he's doing something that other players can't do. esteef Pretty sure Homer is the most reliable "front of the net" grinder in the NHL. Can Grier do that? Me thinks not close to the capacity Holmstrom can. It doesn't matter either way, considering Holmstrom WILL NOT BE MOVED DURING THIS CONTRACT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esteef 2,679 Report post Posted August 13, 2009 Pretty sure Homer is the most reliable "front of the net" grinder in the NHL. Can Grier do that? Me thinks not close to the capacity Holmstrom can. It doesn't matter either way, considering Holmstrom WILL NOT BE MOVED DURING THIS CONTRACT. Absolutely agree, Homer is THE best player in front of the net (f*** you Ryan Smyth!), but it has been recently demonstrated that Franzen and Cleary are quickly learning this skill (who better to learn from than Homer) and there's no reason to believe Grier couldn't be as successful. My point wasn't to say move Homer or put Grier on the 1st line, it was to show the value and verstality in such a player that could be effective on all 4 lines in comparison to Williams who signed for a VERY similar contract, hence the frustration. ...and oh by the way, he fights too and fits the mold of a player both sides of the fighting argument could agree on, an everyday player that can also fight. Ericsson shouldn't have to do ALL the regulating this year when he'll essentially be a full season rook. esteef Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) Grier can do everything Homer can do and more. I bet his stats would look pretty good too if he played top line minutes (including PP) with Zetts and Dats. Who wouldn't? I love Homer, but it ain't like he's doing something that other players can't do. If they gave Homer a point every time the team scored through one of his screens it wouldn't be close. I think you can appreciate the work that he does that doesn't show up on the scoreboard. EDIT: <== slowpoke Edited August 13, 2009 by Heroes of Hockeytown Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted August 13, 2009 I think the Wings are racist. I loved the Maltby-Draper-Cleary line in the playoffs that year, Malts was actually hitting and contributing, same with Drapes. Ah the good old days... of 2 years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,153 Report post Posted August 13, 2009 Well, this should bring diversity to Buffalo and generate tons and tons of new Black/minority fans too, now shouldn't it? What a great PR move too! Ya think Rev. Al Sharpton will personal show up at every other teams doorstep protesting the fact that they didn't sign Grier because he's....well...... you know... black? The NHL needs MORE diversty! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,153 Report post Posted August 13, 2009 Grier can do everything Homer can do and more. I bet his stats would look pretty good too if he played top line minutes (including PP) with Zetts and Dats. Who wouldn't? I love Homer, but it ain't like he's doing something that other players can't do. esteef Ya, because Homer has never played with anyone else BUT Zetts and Dats. Gee, how old was Zetterberg in 1998 when Homer was establishing himself as THE premier player in front of the net. His nick-name coming into the NHL was "Demolition Man" for his net crashing ability and prowess in front of the net while STILL playing in Sweden. But he owes all his success to Hank and Pav... I would take 100 Holmstroms over 1 Mike Grier in a heartbeat... (with or without Hank and Pav) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted August 13, 2009 Ya, because Homer has never played with anyone else BUT Zetts and Dats. Gee, how old was Zetterberg in 1998 when Homer was establishing himself as THE premier player in front of the net. His nick-name coming into the NHL was "Demolition Man" for his net crashing ability and prowess in front of the net while STILL playing in Sweden. But he owes all his success to Hank and Pav... I would take 100 Holmstroms over 1 Mike Grier in a heartbeat... (with or without Hank and Pav) 100 Holmers, eh? Holmstrom-Holmer-Holmstrom Holmstrom-DemolitionMan-Holmstrom Holmstrom-TomasH-Holmstrom Holmstrom-TommyHolmerson-Holmstrom Holmstrom-Holmstrom Holmstrom-Holmstrom Holmstrom-Holmstrom Holmstrom Holmstrom Coach: Holmstrom Offensive Coach: Holmstrom Defensive Coach: Holmstrom Goalie Coach: Holmstrom Skating(!) Coach: Holmstrom That's 25 of our surplus Swedes. I guess the other 75 could fill out 3 more NHL teams. So there'd be an entire division of angry, netcrashing Swedes that ain't gonna win a skating contest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted August 13, 2009 Ya, because Homer has never played with anyone else BUT Zetts and Dats. Gee, how old was Zetterberg in 1998 when Homer was establishing himself as THE premier player in front of the net. His nick-name coming into the NHL was "Demolition Man" for his net crashing ability and prowess in front of the net while STILL playing in Sweden. But he owes all his success to Hank and Pav... s***, Datsyuk and Zetterberg weren't even alive when Gordie Howe was ripping it up. Bring back Gordie and get rid of Pav! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest E_S_A_D Report post Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) All I can say is, no matter who Holland did or didn't sign... I don't want to lose another player whose job isn't to 'enforce' occasionally to a fight. I.E. Lilja 2009. Also, Esteef makes the correct point about Homer's numbers. When you pair any player with the offensive juggernauts the Wings have had over the past decade, their numbers go drastically up. I.e., please take sample one, our newly acquired Jason Williams: 2004-05 Assat Pori FNL 43 26 17 43 52 2 1 1 2 4 2005-06 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 21 37 58 26 6 1 1 2 6 2006-07 Detroit Red Wings NHL 58 11 15 26 24 -- -- -- -- -- 2006-07 Chicago Blackhawks NHL 20 4 2 6 20 -- -- -- -- -- 2007-08 Chicago Blackhawks NHL 43 13 23 36 22 -- -- -- -- -- 2008-09 Atlanta Thrashers NHL 41 7 11 18 8 -- -- -- -- -- 2008-09 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 39 12 17 29 16 Notice his best years? With Detroit... it's not the water folks, it's the line mates. In other words, Mr. Grier's numbers would be higher than they were previously paired with any of our assist minded offensive forwards. You guys are the same ones that after one of our players is laid out with an elbow to the head in a 5-0 game, will say 'what!? how disgraceful! The League should fine him'. Nope, it's called Ice Justice; hence the enforcer. Edited August 13, 2009 by E_S_A_D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
russianswede919293 95 Report post Posted August 14, 2009 1.2 million dollars for Mike Grier is not a figure I would be happy with. Good Riddance, enjoy playing for Buffalo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) All I can say is, no matter who Holland did or didn't sign... I don't want to lose another player whose job isn't to 'enforce' occasionally to a fight. I.E. Lilja 2009. You are still peddling this? The fight between Lilja and Weber was not because there wasn't an enforcer on the ice? It was because Lilja hauled Weber down and they both got into a tussle and agreed to fight. Having Downey or McCarty on the ice wouldn't have made a difference. Also, Esteef makes the correct point about Homer's numbers. When you pair any player with the offensive juggernauts the Wings have had over the past decade, their numbers go drastically up. I.e., please take sample one, our newly acquired Jason Williams: Notice his best years? With Detroit... it's not the water folks, it's the line mates. In other words, Mr. Grier's numbers would be higher than they were previously paired with any of our assist minded offensive forwards. Did you look up why his numbers were better in Detroit? For starters, he had to play with Atlanta for half of last season. Your numbers are going to suck no matter who you are. Secondly, his PPG in Columbus was slightly better than his PPG in Detroit. And he only had one above average year in Detroit, which was back in 06. His numbers were better his last year in Chicago than every other year in Detroit except the 05-06 season. You guys are the same ones that after one of our players is laid out with an elbow to the head in a 5-0 game, will say 'what!? how disgraceful! The League should fine him'. Nope, it's called Ice Justice; hence the enforcer. Ah, Ice Justice...that's what was missing from the 2009 cup run. Edited August 15, 2009 by Doc Holiday Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted August 15, 2009 You are still peddling this? The fight between Lilja and Weber was not because there wasn't an enforcer on the ice? It was because Lilja hauled Weber down and they both got into a tussle and agreed to fight. Having Downey or McCarty on the ice wouldn't have made a difference. Did you look up why his numbers were better in Detroit? For starters, he had to play with Atlanta for half of last season. Your numbers are going to suck no matter who you are. Secondly, his PPG in Columbus was slightly better than his PPG in Detroit. And he only had one above average year in Detroit, which was back in 06. His numbers were better his last year in Chicago than every other year in Detroit except the 05-06 season. Ah, Ice Justice...that's what was missing from the 2009 cup run. Theres this 82 game thing they have before cup runs called the regular season. You must've heard of it, yeah it won't hurt a team if they have someone who can deliver ice justice. Its not needed in the playoffs since the team steps it up in all facets of the game but the season is where it could help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2009 Theres this 82 game thing they have before cup runs called the regular season. Yeah, if only we had the kind of regular season team we had back in 06. They were regular season machines. You must've heard of it, yeah it won't hurt a team if they have someone who can deliver ice justice. Its not needed in the playoffs since the team steps it up in all facets of the game but the season is where it could help. Sure, but I never said it couldn't help. I'm just saying this "on ice justice" is ridiculously overrated here and that it isn't the most important thing. Would it have been nice to have a gritty Grier? Sure. Do we have him? No. Am I going to freak out about the "softness" of this team like other people are? No. Because the team wins, they ice an entertaining product, and management still has a commitment to class and winning. That's why I'm here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted August 15, 2009 Yeah, if only we had the kind of regular season team we had back in 06. They were regular season machines. Sure, but I never said it couldn't help. I'm just saying this "on ice justice" is ridiculously overrated here and that it isn't the most important thing. Would it have been nice to have a gritty Grier? Sure. Do we have him? No. Am I going to freak out about the "softness" of this team like other people are? No. Because the team wins, they ice an entertaining product, and management still has a commitment to class and winning. That's why I'm here. I don't see what the fascination is that people have on this board about the wings being classy. I love how they have a classy front office sure and that entices players to come here. But come on people this is hockey its supopsed to be a rough, violent sport, not a classy one. They aren't out there having tea with the queen or something, they are playing one of the toughest sports on earth. And my remark about the regular season I wasn't saying it would improve their point totals. I meant it could keep the flies off a bit from other players and bring some more energy to games, I don't think it will hurt or increase their chances at the president's trophy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2009 I don't see what the fascination is that people have on this board about the wings being classy. I love how they have a classy front office sure and that entices players to come here. But come on people this is hockey its supopsed to be a rough, violent sport, not a classy one. They aren't out there having tea with the queen or something, they are playing one of the toughest sports on earth. You are putting words into my mouth. The Wings were a classy organization back in 97 and they are still here, enforcer or not. And my remark about the regular season I wasn't saying it would improve their point totals. I meant it could keep the flies off a bit from other players and bring some more energy to games, I don't think it will hurt or increase their chances at the president's trophy. And what I'm saying is that there is no reason to fascinate about what happens in the regular season. Detroit didn't even sniff the President's trophy this year and made it to game seven of the Stanley cup finals. The regular season is fun whether there is an enforcer or not. An enforcer would be fun, but I really don't mind that there isn't one. UNDERSTAND MY POINT PLEASE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted August 15, 2009 You are putting words into my mouth. The Wings were a classy organization back in 97 and they are still here, enforcer or not. And what I'm saying is that there is no reason to fascinate about what happens in the regular season. Detroit didn't even sniff the President's trophy this year and made it to game seven of the Stanley cup finals. The regular season is fun whether there is an enforcer or not. An enforcer would be fun, but I really don't mind that there isn't one. UNDERSTAND MY POINT PLEASE. I didn't put words in your mouth. I said I don't understand what the fascination here about the wings being classy. You might not have meant it as the on ice product and just the front office, but I said the people on thos board. UNDERSTAND MY POINT PLEASE. I'm not saying it would make the regular season more fun, I think it can help them when playoffs roll around. Sure the guy won't be playing in playoffs if we have an enforcer but he'll help with less wear and tear on our stars through the season. Once the playoffs get here put the guy in the press box and play abby but until then yu might as well play him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) You are putting words into my mouth. The Wings were a classy organization back in 97 and they are still here, enforcer or not. A classy org wouldn't have brought in Shanahan. I love shanahan, but poking your Captain's wife is the exact opposite of class. They are succesful, tallented and well-run. They are not any more or lesss classy than your average team. Edited August 15, 2009 by micah Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted August 15, 2009 The fight between Lilja and Weber was not because there wasn't an enforcer on the ice? It was because Lilja hauled Weber down and they both got into a tussle and agreed to fight. Having Downey or McCarty on the ice wouldn't have made a difference. You fail to mention the context around the Lilja/Weber fight. Was there anything out of the ordinary about that game, anything that might have led Lilja to say to himself "well, somebody has to do something, and if nobody else will step up, I guess I might as well..."? I'm not convinced that Lilja would have picked that fight if we had a dedicated toughguy to battle the Webers of the world when the score gets lopsided. Maybe it wouldn't have changed anything regarding Lilja and Weber, but I suspect it might have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted August 15, 2009 Possibly, but does that mean having an enforcer would prevent Lilja from fighting ever again? Otherwise he would still be incurring that risk of getting his brains scrambled. He was fighting dudes when he was in Florida and they had Peter Worrell and in Detroit when we had Downey. So that's just something he does two or three times a year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted August 15, 2009 You fail to mention the context around the Lilja/Weber fight. Was there anything out of the ordinary about that game, anything that might have led Lilja to say to himself "well, somebody has to do something, and if nobody else will step up, I guess I might as well..."? I'm not convinced that Lilja would have picked that fight if we had a dedicated toughguy to battle the Webers of the world when the score gets lopsided. Maybe it wouldn't have changed anything regarding Lilja and Weber, but I suspect it might have. I agree with this right here. In a perfect world when the score gets like that either a) your 6th defenseman who plays a hard nosed game should be able to stick up fr himself half decent. Not really the case with Lilja or b) you actually have a legit tough guy (notice I didn't say goon) who says I'll do the dirty work so Andreas who sucks at fighting doesn't have to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) You fail to mention the context around the Lilja/Weber fight. Was there anything out of the ordinary about that game, anything that might have led Lilja to say to himself "well, somebody has to do something, and if nobody else will step up, I guess I might as well..."? I'm not convinced that Lilja would have picked that fight if we had a dedicated toughguy to battle the Webers of the world when the score gets lopsided. Maybe it wouldn't have changed anything regarding Lilja and Weber, but I suspect it might have. Lilja tackled Weber, and Weber went at him. Lilja didn't say "Hey, since we are down 5-0, let me take a penalty and tackle a guy for no reason since we don't have an enforcer to do that!" Lilja doesn't turtle, so having Downey on the bench wouldn't have given him any reason to stop fighting. In fact, Lilja fought Phaneuf back in the 2007-2008 season when Dallas Drake was ON THE ICE. Granted, Drake had a full face sheild on at the time, but he was dressed and Lilja fought anyway. You must've heard of it, yeah it won't hurt a team if they have someone who can deliver ice justice. Its not needed in the playoffs since the team steps it up in all facets of the game but the season is where it could help. I'm not saying it would make the regular season more fun, I think it can help them when playoffs roll around. Sure the guy won't be playing in playoffs if we have an enforcer but he'll help with less wear and tear on our stars through the season. Once the playoffs get here put the guy in the press box and play abby but until then yu might as well play him. Newfy, make up your mind. Is having an enforcer a help in the playoffs or not? Edited August 15, 2009 by Doc Holiday Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted August 15, 2009 Lilja tackled Weber, and Weber went at him. Lilja didn't say "Hey, since we are down 5-0, let me take a penalty and tackle a guy for no reason since we don't have an enforcer to do that!" Are you sure? That's not typical Lilja behavior. Perhaps (and I am not stating that this is so, only that it might be) if the team had a desihnated go-to guy for rough stuff, Lilja wouldn't have got all stupid in that game. It's also possible that Lils was embarassed and frustrated and would have done exactly the same thing, even with a tough teamate on the bench. I dunno. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted August 15, 2009 Lilja tackled Weber, and Weber went at him. Lilja didn't say "Hey, since we are down 5-0, let me take a penalty and tackle a guy for no reason since we don't have an enforcer to do that!" Lilja doesn't turtle, so having Downey on the bench wouldn't have given him any reason to stop fighting. In fact, Lilja fought Phaneuf back in the 2007-2008 season when Dallas Drake was ON THE ICE. Granted, Drake had a full face sheild on at the time, but he was dressed and Lilja fought anyway. Newfy, make up your mind. Is having an enforcer a help in the playoffs or not? They aren't going to help win games in the playoffs but they can be a help through the playoffs during the regular season. They keep the flies off the stars and keep the other goons that would be out there running people in the box for 5 minutes or out there trying to get them instead of running hank or pav. And that Lilja thing was definitely him saying we're down by alot I'm going to do something dirty. You wouldn't have seen him do that in a 2-1 game. That wasn't a hit that was a face grab and rip backwards. Weber did what he should've done when that happens to him. I just think its too bad that the wings don't have someone who could do what Weber did when s*** lke that happens to them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted August 15, 2009 They aren't going to help win games in the playoffs but they can be a help through the playoffs during the regular season. They keep the flies off the stars and keep the other goons that would be out there running people in the box for 5 minutes or out there trying to get them instead of running hank or pav. When is the last time Pav or Zetts have been run? For crying out loud I only remember Lidstrom getting injured back in 2008 when Downey was in the lineup. And that Lilja thing was definitely him saying we're down by alot I'm going to do something dirty. You wouldn't have seen him do that in a 2-1 game. That wasn't a hit that was a face grab and rip backwards. Weber did what he should've done when that happens to him. I just think its too bad that the wings don't have someone who could do what Weber did when s*** lke that happens to them. Like I said, people get frustrated, s*** happens. Lilja has fought players while there has been an "enforcer" in the lineup, so I really don't see how one would deter him from fighting someone. And I also don't see why someone had to "do" something to Weber. They both fought, Weber beat Lilja fair and square. That's just what happens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted August 15, 2009 Lilja DID challenge Weber to that fight because Detroit were losing. He admitted that in one of his interviews about his concussion. Lilja, a non-fighter, shouldnt have had to have been the one to say "enough is enough." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
