Zherdev to KHL

[HenryMalredo 2]

The problem is, Zherdev became a ufa after teams were no longer looking for players in his pay range. The first tier guys get signed within the first two days, and most of the second-tier guys (like Zherdev) get snapped up quickly afterwards. Zherdev is a player in the $3 - 5 million dollar range on the market, but nobody is looking for (and can't afford) those players anymore.

[sibiriak 84]

Sure as hell fights like one

Small reminder, Chris Simon plays in the KHL now. So do Martin Grenier and Darcy Vero. There are also some Russian players who can fight. Andrei Nazarov is coaching one of the teams, and his guys can account for themselves well.

[numberthirtynine 0]

I hate to play the Bettman card but the guy has completely f***ed up this league. This is the most entertaining and exciting major sport there is. Period. And he over the course of his tenure, has turned it into a ******* joke the point where we can't even keep players. GMs making stupid signings account for some of it but it all goes back to Bettman in the end. Almost every head scratcher you see in the NHL can be traced back to him.

This may just be the evolution of our sport. It may eventually be a european influenced game, with canadians and americans travelling to russia to make a living. And I can foresee, down the road, it'll all be Gary ******* Bettman's fault and I'll want his head.

[sibiriak 84]

This is just solidifying the notion that has plagued the Europeans forever. They just don't have the same love and drive for the Stanley Cup as the North Americans (particularly Canadians) have. The Euros holiest grail is on the world front, not the NHL and a trophy that plays third fiddle to World Championships and Olympic Golds...

They started arriving here for the money (not the Cup) in the late 80's throughout the 90's and early 2000's. Now, they are leaving for the money, not really caring if they win a Cup or not...

edit: Of course how long until we start talking NHL/KHL merger?

How exactly does Zherdev leaving for the KHL have anything to do with "love and drive for the Stanley Cup"?

Pro athletes play to win, whether it is Game 7 of the Stanley Cup final or an off-season golf shindig. Its in their mental make-up, it's what pushed them to become successful athletes.

By your logic, all hockey players in the world, except for about 200 who play for the NHL teams that have a reasonable chance to win the Cup in a given year, have nothing to play for and should just quit. Do the guys in Grand Rapids have "love and drive for the Stanley Cup" to the exclusion of all else? Why do they bother playing in the AHL playoffs then? Or why do any Canadians ever agree to play for the Oilers or the Panthers or the Coyotes? Seeing that they are VERY unlikely to compete for the Cup there.

It's a business. NHL has a higher level of play and prestige, the KHL has higher pay for second-tier/older NHL stars. It's a business decision. Zherdev said in several interviews that his first priority is to sign with an NHL club, but he would consider KHL, if no reasonable offers from the NHL teams are forthcoming. If he indeed signes with Salavat, then that would be the reason.

P.S. According to "Salavat" assistant coach Igor Zakharkin: "Zherdev will not play in Ufa, we never even considered him". Qouted from his interview to "Sovetsky sport" newspaper when he was asked to comment on RDS.ca report about the signing.

Edited August 11, 2009 by sibiriak

[servo 15]

The KHL is getting a lot of these skilled 2nd-tier guys that are just plain fun to watch. Kinda sucks.

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/280160.html

English translation:

Nikolai Zherdev will cross the Atlantic in his turn. The former player of Rangers accepted a new contract with the team of Salavat Yulaev Ufa in the KHL.

Zherdev will evolve/move in particular with Alexander Perezhogin and Alexander Radulov.

Actually, this is a huge blow to the NHL. We lose another high end player to a competing league b/c of $$$. Another blow for Bettman's CBA.

Law of unintended consequences. Don't be fooled, this could be the begining of a small parade of players over, thus diluting the quality of the NHL. If the KHL begins to make more $$ because of the slow improvement in the quality of their product, they can and will outcompete with the NHL to entice more players over with larger contracts.

BTW, don't confuse my post to intend that the majority of big name players will leave, but you'll see more Jagr's and 2nd line guys leave for larger paychecks.

Thanks Bettman!

[numberthirtynine 0]

Maybe the league just needs a good 20 years to get used to the cap. It seems to be confusing the hell out of some GMs who still have jobs only because of their pre-cap reputation.

But we don`t have that kind of time. Not with the way this leagues been screwed up. So instead of a 56 mil cap or whatever we have, why not loosen it up. Don`t call it a salary cap with all the rules we have now, just limit teams to spending 70 million a season, and make the minimum mathematically reasonable, so that if you want to own an NHL team you`re not a penny pinching asswipe. I never liked the cap. Not once. I never felt as though teams spent too much, as much as some teams spent too little. Some teams were happy to not even compete. I say f*** that-if you own a team, you pay a salary minimum. And no more 120 million team salaries, that`s too much, but make it a limit a little higher than 56.

I know it`s like putting the training wheels back on the kids bike because he`s too stupid to learn without them, but we can`t be picky in this league right now. We may be forced to take the KHL seriously a lot sooner than we all think.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Shows how much times have changed... the pre-lockout Rangers probably would have just handed Zherdev a blank check and said "go nuts."

This is just solidifying the notion that has plagued the Europeans forever. They just don't have the same love and drive for the Stanley Cup as the North Americans (particularly Canadians) have. The Euros holiest grail is on the world front, not the NHL and a trophy that plays third fiddle to World Championships and Olympic Golds...

They started arriving here for the money (not the Cup) in the late 80's throughout the 90's and early 2000's. Now, they are leaving for the money, not really caring if they win a Cup or not...

Also, pretty ironic statement from a guy with a Sweden/Wings jersey combo there. Remind me, how have the massively Canadian teams been doing lately? Oh right, they've been losing to the Euros in the cup.... We're the most European team in the league and we're consistently near the top... and I feel like I need to remind people of this all the time...

Do you remember how inconsistent we were in the playoffs with our Canadians (ala Shanny and Yzerman)? Did having Kocur, McCartey, Probert, and those guys ever win us playoff rounds? Not saying it was their fault, but it's always wild to see fans of the most European team in the past 15 years complain...especially when we've been the BEST team of that time too.... Not singling you out, but it just makes no sense.

Edited August 12, 2009 by RedWings Gone Wild

[Guest Shoreline]

oh my god, man are you even reading my posts? I have said over and over again that i am not 100% blaming Bettman. I have repeatedly written that the Owners/GMs, players, and Bettman all have their share of the blame. Try reading my responses to your comments before you respond so argumentatively. I am not fully blaming Bettman for any of it. Im am saying he has his share, just like everyone else. If you can't understand that then there's nothing more I can do for you.

Seriously, you suck at reading yourself. I'm asking why you need to blame anyone here. Anyone. At all. You weren't targeting anyone else but Bettman either, even though you toned your posts down afterwards. You sure it's me who has the problems here?

Dude, if you don't agree with him 100%, then you are wrong. Learn it, live it, then ignore him...

(This is basically my conventional post to ad hominem now.. no point in anything else)

Edited August 12, 2009 by Shoreline

[Guest Shoreline]

Shows how much times have changed... the pre-lockout Rangers probably would have just handed Zherdev a blank check and said "go nuts."

Also, pretty ironic statement from a guy with a Sweden/Wings jersey combo there. Remind me, how have the massively Canadian teams been doing lately? Oh right, they've been losing to the Euros in the cup.... We're the most European team in the league and we're consistently near the top... and I feel like I need to remind people of this all the time...

Do you remember how inconsistent we were in the playoffs with our Canadians (ala Shanny and Yzerman)? Did having Kocur, McCartey, Probert, and those guys ever win us playoff rounds? Not saying it was their fault, but it's always wild to see fans of the most European team in the past 15 years complain...especially when we've been the BEST team of that time too.... Not singling you out, but it just makes no sense.

He just loves drinking the stupid juice. Anyone who thinks that our European players (like him) lack the will to win and Canadians/North Americans inherently due doesn't know his ass from his mouth and which side should be spewing s***. There's no sensible reason why one should be focusing on where these players come from more than the system at play or their individual accomplishments. Pointing a finger at some broad swath of people by region is not only patently false, but so moronic it's hard to fathom what kind of a douchebag would do it. But there are plenty who do, nonetheless.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Shoreline

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Seriously, you suck at reading yourself. I'm asking why you need to blame anyone here. Anyone. At all. You weren't targeting anyone else but Bettman either, even though you toned your posts down afterwards. You sure it's me who has the problems here?

I fail to see how it isn't reasonable to imply that the CBA has made it difficult to keep talent from going overseas.. and Bettman, the league owner's errand boy would certainly share a large amount of the blame in propagating this system... along with the owners (who have consistently decided to overspend when unnecessary, and then tighten up the budget to let solid players leave the country when they realized they made some idiotic contract moves and are running low on cap).

[Guest Shoreline]

I fail to see how it isn't reasonable to imply that the CBA has made it difficult to keep talent from going overseas.. and Bettman, the league owner's errand boy would certainly share a large amount of the blame in propagating this system... along with the owners (who have consistently decided to overspend when unnecessary, and then tighten up the budget to let solid players leave the country when they realized they made some idiotic contract moves and are running low on cap).

You're missing the players here who would demand higher salaries or threaten to go elsewhere. Before you answer to them not bending over for a superstar, remember Sergei Fedorov and Joe Sakic. It's circular. Bettman has made some stupid decisions but he doesn't have the blame for players going to the KHL, at all, any more than Zherdev has blame for wanting to play there -- i.e. none are responsible. Russian players are simply wanting to go there. Zherdev could have stayed in the league and guaranteed he had an option of at least a dozen teams who would want to sign him and for his actual value as decided by arbitration, but he clearly wanted to go to the KHL instead. The KHL will provide stiff competition eventually, I imagine, and how good it's product is will play a huge role in how many more players defect, and not just Russians.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

You're missing the players here who would demand higher salaries or threaten to go elsewhere. Before you answer to them not bending over for a superstar, remember Sergei Fedorov and Joe Sakic. It's circular. Bettman has made some stupid decisions but he doesn't have the blame for players going to the KHL, at all, any more than Zherdev has blame for wanting to play there -- i.e. none are responsible. Russian players are simply wanting to go there. Zherdev could have stayed in the league and guaranteed he had an option of at least a dozen teams who would want to sign him and for his actual value as decided by arbitration, but he clearly wanted to go to the KHL instead. The KHL will provide stiff competition eventually, I imagine, and how good it's product is will play a huge role in how many more players defect, and not just Russians.

The point I was making was two-fold. Having a CBA in place only works for the league if they can place some constraints on player salaries.

In the 03-04 season the top two salaries were hold-out super-star money guys... Jagr and Forsberg at 11 million a piece... both future hall of famers, both MVP winners, both cup winners, both among league leaders in points.... This was at the time of the contracts too.

07-08? Brier, Gomez, and Vanek all made 10 million with far less in terms of credentials, name recognition, and overall significance to the league and their teams.

08-09? Still tops at at 10 million...

So, yes, I do feel that you can place a great deal of blame here. Not for individual circumstances (guys bolted for Europe before the KHL was around), but for the broader implications of poor spending habits and poor planning. The difference in top notch contracts is nearly non-existent, and is being circumvented by bloated 50 year contracts on top of it.... so what was the point of a year of no hockey? Some snazzy new rules that could have been implemented without a work stoppage? Or is the NHL's focus to shell out ridiculous amounts of money to the first guys they see, and spend the little remaining cap money on bargain bin players like Eaves and Williams?

The owners, and the league in general, should have been prepared with the mindset of undercutting salaries (not drastically of course) in a way to set a decent precedent for free-agent spending. The KHL would still be trumping NHL offers, but at least skilled talent won't look at a Brier and go "he makes how much? And NY won't give me 3.9 after leading their team in scoring?"

[rage 24]

Actually, looks like he is still looking for a NHL contract.

Zherdev to KHL is not done, he is still looking for a new deal in the NHL. 3-4 teams very interested in him and are all talking to him.

[Guest Shoreline]

Actually, looks like he is still looking for a NHL contract.

Good news, though I'm skeptical of the source. So if Zherdev stays in the league is it Medvedev's fault?

[titanium2 867]

Actually, looks like he is still looking for a NHL contract.

Eh, they said the same thing with Fedorov no?

[rage 24]

Good news, though I'm skeptical of the source. So if Zherdev stays in the league is it Medvedev's fault?

That is 100% Correct!!

Eh, they said the same thing with Fedorov no?

I'm not too sure?

[servo 15]

From George James Malik August 12, 2009 07:59AM

And the KHL's Ak Bars Kazan are attempting to sign lockout alumnus Dany Heatley despite his "operating contract" with the Ottawa Senators and the fact that the Ak Bars have already utilized their "franchise player" salary cap exemption on Aleksey Morozov. It's another attempt by the KHL to get into the headlines (mission accomplished) and add credibility to the league, but it's not going to happen. The KHL's teams get silly in the summertime, but their endless attempts to lure NHL players tend to result in a few Russian veterans heading home and one Jiri Hudler-style poaching.

I don't like to ramble on about a non-Red Wings related topic, but the BS about the Ak Bars signing Nikolai Zherdev (confirmed to Sovetsky Sport) and Ilya Kovalchuk's recent, Sport-Express-prompted gushing about the KHL simply signals that the annual war games between the two leagues continue. Reading it every day (gotta keep up with the Hudler news, or the lack thereof) is making my eyes tired from rolling, frankly. I'm all for the NHL and KHL respecting each other's contracts and working out some sort of IIHF-brokered player transfer agreement (it seems that it'd have to go both ways these days), but the ideological war, fueled in part by tabloid-style rumors of NHL-player signings, fed to the Russian press, is unbelievably stupid.

[VM1138 1,921]

The KHL wouldn't be gaining ground if the NHL didn't have a cap, or at least had a higher cap.

[mmamolo 287]

Seriously, you suck at reading yourself. I'm asking why you need to blame anyone here. Anyone. At all. You weren't targeting anyone else but Bettman either, even though you toned your posts down afterwards. You sure it's me who has the problems here?

(This is basically my conventional post to ad hominem now.. no point in anything else)

The only reason I 'targeted' Bettman was because I was responding to someone's post who asked specifically if Bettman could be blamed. I answered with saying he was partly to blame. As for why do we need to blame anyone at all? That's just ridiculous. There is a negative situation happening in the NHL and ppl are responsible for it. It's funny how the whole time you've been tryign to convince me that the players are to blame for this situation and now suddenly you're trying to hide behind an argument that says no one is to blame.

If you've read my posts you would see that I have said the same thing from my first to my last message. If you want to say I toned it down that's fine. But in reality all I did was explain it with more detail and dumbed it down for you because it's clear you weren't understanding what was being said. Not blaming anyone for this situation is assanine, as are your responses throughout this thread. I have no problem with someoen disagreeing with me but when someone acts as thick headed as you have you're not worth the time or effort.

The poster who suggested ignoring you hit the nail on the head. If you ever decide to contribute something worthwhile to a discussion then I'll respond to you. Until then good luck to anyone else who has to deal with your s*** because you're simply not worth my time.

[titanium2 867]

Sadly only Bob Probert was missing.

Don't worry. I'm sure he did a line coke for both Yzerman and his former bruise brother while passing out in front of the TV as the Wings won back to back titles.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Don't worry. I'm sure he did a line coke for both Yzerman and his former bruise brother while passing out in front of the TV as the Wings won back to back titles.

Theo Fleury did that too... right before games.

[LeftWinger 5,152]

How exactly does Zherdev leaving for the KHL have anything to do with "love and drive for the Stanley Cup"?

Pro athletes play to win, whether it is Game 7 of the Stanley Cup final or an off-season golf shindig. Its in their mental make-up, it's what pushed them to become successful athletes.

By your logic, all hockey players in the world, except for about 200 who play for the NHL teams that have a reasonable chance to win the Cup in a given year, have nothing to play for and should just quit. Do the guys in Grand Rapids have "love and drive for the Stanley Cup" to the exclusion of all else? Why do they bother playing in the AHL playoffs then? Or why do any Canadians ever agree to play for the Oilers or the Panthers or the Coyotes? Seeing that they are VERY unlikely to compete for the Cup there.

dude, re-read it. I simply said the Euro's have always had the stigmata that they didn't care about the Cup. I didn't make it up or say they didn't. I just said it solidify's that notion. SUre they want to win, all pro athletes do, but the notion was they cherished World Champioships and Olympic Golds MORE than the Stanley Cup, which wasn't/isn't a world Trophy. IT's a league trophy. Guys in GRR want to win their respective championship too. I am just saying (if you've been around the NHL long enough to know) the notion is Euro's just don't view the Cup as the ultimate nth degree championship as much as North Americans do.

[LeftWinger 5,152]

Also, pretty ironic statement from a guy with a Sweden/Wings jersey combo there. Remind me, how have the massively Canadian teams been doing lately? Oh right, they've been losing to the Euros in the cup.... We're the most European team in the league and we're consistently near the top... and I feel like I need to remind people of this all the time...

Do you remember how inconsistent we were in the playoffs with our Canadians (ala Shanny and Yzerman)? Did having Kocur, McCartey, Probert, and those guys ever win us playoff rounds? Not saying it was their fault, but it's always wild to see fans of the most European team in the past 15 years complain...especially when we've been the BEST team of that time too.... Not singling you out, but it just makes no sense.

Nowhere in my statement did I refer to Euro's being worse or better than North AMerican's, so that is off-sides there. Again, Euro's have historically had the notion that they cared more about World Championships. The fact that these Euro's are bolting to another league to win and/or get paid just solidify's that notion a little bit. Even though ALL pro's love winning, not ALL pro hockey players covet the Stanley Cup as the holiest grail in the world. Most "World" players covet World Championships and Olympic Golds moreso. North Americans (for the most part) covet the Stanley Cup more than Olympic Gold/W.C.'s.

And just because that theory holds a little bit of water with me, doesn't mean I don't like our team the way it is (hence the Swedish/Wings jersey.) I fully acknowledge the European (mostly Swedish) influence that has made this team a Dynasty., but to say the likes of Yzerman, Shanahan, LaPointe, Brown, Murphy, Osgood, Hull, Robitaille, Draper, Maltby, Kocur and most recently Helm & Cleary has nothing to do with our dominance either is way, way off base...

[Guest Shoreline]

dude, re-read it. I simply said the Euro's have always had the stigmata that they didn't care about the Cup. I didn't make it up or say they didn't. I just said it solidify's that notion. SUre they want to win, all pro athletes do, but the notion was they cherished World Champioships and Olympic Golds MORE than the Stanley Cup, which wasn't/isn't a world Trophy. IT's a league trophy. Guys in GRR want to win their respective championship too. I am just saying (if you've been around the NHL long enough to know) the notion is Euro's just don't view the Cup as the ultimate nth degree championship as much as North Americans do.

In 16 years of watching the NHL I've never got this horrendously, mind-numbingly moronic and baseless impression that European born players want the cup any less than North Americans, nor has anyone showed me evidence of it who has made the assertion. Extremely difficult to look at this nonsense focused on Europeans as anything more than prejudice beliefs, for one lame reason or another.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Shoreline

[LeftWinger 5,152]

In 16 years of watching the NHL I've never got this horrendously, mind-numbingly moronic and baseless impression that European born players want the cup any less than North Americans, nor has anyone showed me evidence of it who has made the assertion. Extremely difficult to look at this nonsense focused on Europeans as anything more than prejudice beliefs, for one lame reason or another.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20080605/SP...never+grows+old

Lidstrom is firmly entrenched as one of the greatest players in history, while obliterating the notion European players don't crave the Cup as much. What utter nonsense that turned out to be. From foreign roots, the Wings brought familiar traits -- hard work, selflessness and humility. Has a team this good ever been so unassuming? Have superstars this good -- Lidstrom, Zetterberg and Datsyuk -- ever been so mild-mannered and maniacally competitive at the same time?

...gee, I guess Bob Wojnowski must be prejudice too. Dude there's a reason people want to ignore you. 16 years eh? Why don't come back when you are out of diapers?

ya, I am just making this s*** up, because I am prejudice!

Edited August 13, 2009 by LeftWinger