Devellano says Wings close to signing Bertuzzi

[thedatsyukian 7]

Berg-Dats-Cleary

Franzen-Filp-Bert

Leino-Helm-Williams

Eaves-Draper-Holmstrom

Maltby

Not necessarily in those positions but those line combos. I Personally love the thought of filp getting to dish it off to to 6'3 wingers.

Edited August 18, 2009 by thedatsyukian

[rage 24]

Berg-Dats-Cleary

Franzen-Filp-Bert

Leino-Helm-Williams

Eaves-Draper-Holmstrom

Maltby

Not necessarily in those positions but those line combos. I Personally love the thought of filp getting to dish it off to to 6'3 wingers.

Yeah, that looks pretty good. It sure is sad thinking about Homer on the 4th line though!

But yeah, I agree w/ you second line for sure!

[Yzermania 156]

I'm all for bringing back bert.

[daniel1 32]

Moore's hit, if called a cheap shot, is as close to legal as a cheap shot gets. Of all plays since I have been alive, Bert's attack on Moore is the one that was intended to cause severe injury more than any other. Bert intended to at the very least put Moore out for the same time Naslund was out. He didn't intend to end his career...but injury WAS the intent and looking at the action you can't say he wasn't trying to cause severe injury. Other situations that have caused major injury are typically simply normal plays that happen in awkward situations where a player will cross check or slash another player as happens all the time, and due to positioning or something, the receiving player is severely injured. Such as Lemieux on Draper or Samuelsson on Neely. In neither situation were they trying to cause severe harm to the other player. Yes, both times it was a dirty cross check. Neither time was it one player trying to ruin another player's career or to severely injure him. Bertuzzi felt remorseful after his actions, but given the way he relentlessly pursued Moore and then viciously assaulted him, it's hard to argue that he was not trying to cause severe injury to Steve Moore.

Oh give it a rest already! If you don't like Bert or don't like what he did then get off your high and mighty horse and either find another team to cheer for or just don't watch when Bert's on the ice. You can cover your eyes and sing till his shift is over whilst pretending that Bert is not a Red Wing. Just about everyone in the known universe is very tired of hearing about this. It happened - get over it.

[ShanahanMan 473]

For all of you who don't like the 1.5 mil offer, try to think about it this way:

Our offer to Hudler was 3.5 mil per year. Thats 3.5 a year to player who had 23 goals and 57 points. Instead, we sign Williams and Bertuzzi for 1.5 each and grab Eaves for 500 which ALSO equals 3.5 mil. They're combined goal total (reg. season) was 39 and point total was 110.

So, my question is this: Which would you rather have for the same price? Happy Huds or Williams/Bertuzzi/Eaves? I think the answer should be obvious.

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

For all of you who don't like the 1.5 mil offer, try to think about it this way:

Our offer to Hudler was 3.5 mil per year. Thats 3.5 a year to player who had 23 goals and 57 points. Instead, we sign Williams and Bertuzzi for 1.5 each and grab Eaves for 500 which ALSO equals 3.5 mil. They're combined goal total (reg. season) was 39 and point total was 110.

So, my question is this: Which would you rather have for the same price? Happy Huds or Williams/Bertuzzi/Eaves? I think the answer should be obvious.

Amen.

[rage 24]

For all of you who don't like the 1.5 mil offer, try to think about it this way:

Our offer to Hudler was 3.5 mil per year. Thats 3.5 a year to player who had 23 goals and 57 points. Instead, we sign Williams and Bertuzzi for 1.5 each and grab Eaves for 500 which ALSO equals 3.5 mil. They're combined goal total (reg. season) was 39 and point total was 110.

So, my question is this: Which would you rather have for the same price? Happy Huds or Williams/Bertuzzi/Eaves? I think the answer should be obvious.

Perfection my friend! Perfection!

[Drake_Marcus 890]

For all of you who don't like the 1.5 mil offer, try to think about it this way:

Our offer to Hudler was 3.5 mil per year. Thats 3.5 a year to player who had 23 goals and 57 points. Instead, we sign Williams and Bertuzzi for 1.5 each and grab Eaves for 500 which ALSO equals 3.5 mil. They're combined goal total (reg. season) was 39 and point total was 110.

So, my question is this: Which would you rather have for the same price? Happy Huds or Williams/Bertuzzi/Eaves? I think the answer should be obvious.

Ummm... that's ok if you can ice as many people as you want each game. Hudler would be scoring more than 23 goals and 57 points all from a wing position on the 3rd line. You can't exactly compare one guy to three (an entire line) and say it's a fair comparison... I see what you're getting at though. Also, the arbiter gave him 2.875 million a year for two years, so we'd have to make the comparison based on that number

[rage 24]

Ummm... that's ok if you can ice as many people as you want each game. Hudler would be scoring more than 23 goals and 57 points all from a wing position on the 3rd line. You can't exactly compare one guy to three (an entire line) and say it's a fair comparison... I see what you're getting at though. Also, the arbiter gave him 2.875 million a year for two years, so we'd have to make the comparison based on that number

Good points too, but remember the Wings were offering Hudler that $3.5 so they wouldn't have to go to arbitration. If Hudler was not planning on going to Russia, I am sure he'd have signed that deal.

Plus with our current loses of Hossa AND Sammy, if Hudler stayed at that $3.5m a year, that's only one player. And then how much cap space would we have had to help make up the difference that we lost in goals with the departure of Hossa and Sammy??? None??

So riddle me this, Hudler @ $3.5 (bring up Abs), or Bertuzzi, Eaves, and Williams @ $3.5??

You see you have to remember that even if Hudler stayed, we still lost Hossa and Sammy~i.e, still lots of goals!!

[ShanahanMan 473]

Ummm... that's ok if you can ice as many people as you want each game. Hudler would be scoring more than 23 goals and 57 points all from a wing position on the 3rd line. You can't exactly compare one guy to three (an entire line) and say it's a fair comparison... I see what you're getting at though. Also, the arbiter gave him 2.875 million a year for two years, so we'd have to make the comparison based on that number

I'm simply talking about the end result, which is goal and point totals. Each one of these guys (yeah, each) have the potential to put up strong numbers, I'd say at the minimum half of what Hudler's totals were. In other words, its close to being Hudler x3. Now players will be fighting for their spots. Unlike last season, finally, each one of our lines will have SOLID SCORERS ON THEM. No longer will we have to close our eyes and pray every time the 4th line comes out. This also allows some of the kids to finish up their conditioning in GR. I think this is whats best.

Also, I still compare the number to Hudler's 3.5 and not the arbitrator's number because 3.5 is the amount WE offered him and is the amount HE turned down. Meaning next season could have been with Hudler at 3.5 or Bertuzzi/Eaves/Williams at the same price. Once again, I'd take the latter.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

I just went through my spreadsheet and if Bert is being offered 1.5 million that will take the Wings over the cap by $921,868...

I don't know which spreadsheet you are using, but capgeek.com shows the Wings UNDER the cap by $279,000 with Lilj on LTIR and giving Bertuzzi $1.5M. Now if Lilja is slated to be back, then we have a problem. Even after trading Lebda, we are still $320,000 over the cap, trade off Meech and we'd be fine, but then we'd only have 6 defensmen and no room to bring up Kindl (or anyone for that matter) to cover injuries. I do agree, I hope the siging is more like $1M which'll of course, leave us more cash for injuries.

If Bert is signed that'll give us the 13 forwards (along with Meech's ability to play up, 14.) I am only saddened by the fact that Oulahen and MCGrath are odd men out and unless they clear waivers, won't be in our organization anymore. I was looking forward to seeing one of them up here at least...

another thing to those of you making line combos with Holmstrom on the 4th line, give us a break. Homer will not be on the 4th line...

[Dominator2005 558]

Bulls***.

For one, Moore hit Naslund legally, and Naslund was injured as he fell awkwardly. You can go on and on about it being a cheap shot but it was a legal hit and was ruled as such by the league.

Furthermore, in the game Bertuzzi hunted Moore down and assaulted him in, Moore had already fought Matt Cooke to a draw regarding the Naslund incident. The Bertuzzi incident is one of the few incidents in NHL history where a fight, ONE fight, was not acceptable 'payback' for a cheap shot, or even injuring someone on a legal hit.

Bertuzzi assaulted Moore without any justification, and there is no acceptable defense for his actions nor should anyone even try to justify them.

And honestly, which action is truly worse?

1) Heading to the bench at the end of your shift (Moore had been on the ice for more than 30 seconds) when you have spent the entire shift being challenged to a fight over an incident that happened two games ago as far as the season series between your two teams is concerned, even though you have already fought another member of this player's team over the same incident in the same game.

2) Spending an entire shift following a guy around the ice and then when he doesn't react and fight you, grabbing him by the back of the head and driving him face-first into the ice, breaking his neck in several places and ending his professional hockey career.

I know what is worse, and it's not option 1.

There was nothing LEGAL

[Dominator2005 558]

Bulls***.

For one, Moore hit Naslund legally, and Naslund was injured as he fell awkwardly. You can go on and on about it being a cheap shot but it was a legal hit and was ruled as such by the league.

Furthermore, in the game Bertuzzi hunted Moore down and assaulted him in, Moore had already fought Matt Cooke to a draw regarding the Naslund incident. The Bertuzzi incident is one of the few incidents in NHL history where a fight, ONE fight, was not acceptable 'payback' for a cheap shot, or even injuring someone on a legal hit.

Bertuzzi assaulted Moore without any justification, and there is no acceptable defense for his actions nor should anyone even try to justify them.

And honestly, which action is truly worse?

1) Heading to the bench at the end of your shift (Moore had been on the ice for more than 30 seconds) when you have spent the entire shift being challenged to a fight over an incident that happened two games ago as far as the season series between your two teams is concerned, even though you have already fought another member of this player's team over the same incident in the same game.

2) Spending an entire shift following a guy around the ice and then when he doesn't react and fight you, grabbing him by the back of the head and driving him face-first into the ice, breaking his neck in several places and ending his professional hockey career.

I know what is worse, and it's not option 1.

There was nothing LEGAL about that hit...

Moore did fight Cooke - but didn't wanted to go with Bertuzzi and CO.

[Dominator2005 558]

And then swap Williams with Maltby and we're done! Better yet, send Williams to GR and bring up Abdelkader in his place

[chrisdetroit 189]

And honestly if Moore would have backed up his actions like he should've it wouldn't have happened. He's pretty tough when he's running Swdeish superstars in the head but when that swedes 6'2 linemate doesn't like it Moore is running his mouth and for the bench. Bertuzzi did what he should've sticking up for his team, just the way it turned out was a freak accident.

Bertuzzi hit him from behind and drove his head into the ice. This was not about sticking up for anybody, it is about hitting a player from behind when he can't see you coming. The majority of hockey players at the time came out and said that it was a dirty hit and something that they did not condone.

There are unwritten rules and one of them is that you don't hit a player from behind when he is in a position that he can't defend himself.

What Bert did was unexcuseable. Unfortunately it resulted in a horrific injury.

You can't put this off as somebody sticking up for his teammates.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Yeah, that looks pretty good. It sure is sad thinking about Homer on the 4th line though!

But yeah, I agree w/ you second line for sure!

You are serious considering putting a guy who was -13 last year on the second line. Bert is a marginal player at best. He is not going to be on our second line.

It takes more than "big and tough" to be on the second line.

[Guest mindfly]

it was bertuzzis bodyweight and the smach against the ice that made moore break his neck, if he just would have punched him that would have done nothing maybe a concussion at most.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Sure, why not? If Bert comes cheap then it's a one-year gamble for very little cabbage. Worst case scenario is that he gets injured and we plug Abby into more games. Bert does add some size on the forecheck, a definite net-presence, and a bit of snarl into an otherwise very snarl-less group of forwards. I think he'd do well (assuming healthy) in a third line role and occasional 2nd PP unit. If Homer or Mule goes down we have another big body with good hands to stand in front of the net. I think Bert can manage 20+ goals if he can stay healthy and play enough defense to get a regular shift. I'll be more than happy to see him take someone out if they cheap shot Pav or Z. I hear Bert has big man-crushes for talented, good-looking Swedes so let's put his locker next to Hank's.

As for roster room Eaves can play with GR if we're out of spots. Helm, Leino, Williams and Bert replace Hossa, Sammy, Hudler and Kopecky - - - that's an overall improvement in my book especially after seeing what Hossa "didn't" do in the playoffs. We can't carry eight D so either Lils is out for the season or we trade one Lebda or Meech. This will free up some cap room and give us some good competition at training camp too.

Worst case he takes a dumb penalty which he has been known to do and costs us a playoff game.

Or worst case he brings his -13 with him and speedy forwards skate around him (he's very slow) and score goals that cost us playoff games.

People on here are so blinded bt the "big and tough" argument that they want to sign a guy that is known for taking bad penalties, was a -13 last year, and is a slow skater.

Unbelievable.

[chrisdetroit 189]

No one's making excuses for what he did. I don't think anyone's condoning the cheap shots at all. I don't think anyone's said that the cheap shots are acceptable at all. But you're flat out crazy if you think Bertuzzi's aim was to end his career let alone cause any serious injury. That's about where the defending Bertuzzi. It was a cheap shot, plain and simple. Like you said, they happen in hockey.

The difference in Bertuzzi's case is that a worst case scenario situation occured. Had he not gotten jumped by Moore's teammates sending a plethora of weight into Moore's body, Moore likely would've sustained minimal injuries and the story dies fast and most likely call it even between the clubs.

But Bertuzzi did get jumped after and Moore subsequently sustained far more impact in a far more vulnerable position than he would've had the situation not escalated the way it did.

There are countless cheap shots that happen every season that could easily end far worse than they do if a guy falls funny or hits a board funny or a pileup happens on top of a downed player. What about Kronwall's hit on Havlat in Game 3 of the WCF? What if someone fell on Havlat in a funny way and he sustained worse injuries? What if he hit the boards funny before anyone else even arrived on the and suffered more serious neck/back injuries? You know what happens? Kronwall becomes public enemy number 1 and everyone and their mother in the league and the media wants his head. That's just how it goes. Doesn't matter at that point if it was a clean hit or not because all anyone sees is a guy who's suffered very serious injuries. All logic and reason is suspended.

Bertuzzi's situation was obviously much more of a blatant cheap shot. Again, no one's arguing that. But again, plenty of cheapshots happen every night that have the potential to be incredibly dangerous and thankfully most aren't. Bertuzzi and Moore weren't so lucky. I'm sorry if I can see that and give a little grace to the guy as opposed to burning him at the stake like most have.

Again, what if while McCarty was beating the life out of Lemieux in '97 a Colorado player jumped McCarty and they landed on a vulnerable Lemieux yielding a similar situation to the Moore incident? Are you going to throw McCarty under the bus? Somehow I doubt it.

Kronwall didn't hit Havlat when his back was turned and McCarty didn't hit Lemeuix when his back was turned.

You seriously don't know the difference? Really?

[russianswede919293 95]

I'm okay with bringing Bertuzzi back but not for 1.5 million. I saw the rationale of the 3.5 million for Hudler etc. but I say this would you rather have: Eaves, Williams, Abdelkader for 2.9 or Eaves, Williams, Bertuzzi for 3.5? personally I'd rather rock Abdelkader and more cap room.

Bertuzzi is just too old, too slow, and takes too many dumb penalties for me to think that he is worth 1.5 million.

Last year he had 44 points, but was also a -13. Over the last two seasons he has failed to reach 70 games played, with various injuries, including his back injury. 11 of his 15 goals came prior to his january back injury and 31 of his 44 points came before that back injury.

Translation, after he had another back flare-up, since he is injury prone, he then came back and played 32 games registering 4 goals and 13 points...that is piss poor.

I already worry about Homer producing if he gets beat up again, I don't want to have another guy that I worry won't produce when the injuries reign down.

Again I say, I am okay with bringing him in, but I think that 1.5 million for a defensively poor, injury prone, slow winger, is too much.

The highest I would be happy with is 1 million for him.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I'm okay with bringing Bertuzzi back but not for 1.5 million. I saw the rationale of the 3.5 million for Hudler etc. but I say this would you rather have: Eaves, Williams, Abdelkader for 2.9 or Eaves, Williams, Bertuzzi for 3.5? personally I'd rather rock Abdelkader and more cap room.

Bertuzzi is just too old, too slow, and takes too many dumb penalties for me to think that he is worth 1.5 million.

Last year he had 44 points, but was also a -13. Over the last two seasons he has failed to reach 70 games played, with various injuries, including his back injury. 11 of his 15 goals came prior to his january back injury and 31 of his 44 points came before that back injury.

Translation, after he had another back flare-up, since he is injury prone, he then came back and played 32 games registering 4 goals and 13 points...that is piss poor.

I already worry about Homer producing if he gets beat up again, I don't want to have another guy that I worry won't produce when the injuries reign down.

Again I say, I am okay with bringing him in, but I think that 1.5 million for a defensively poor, injury prone, slow winger, is too much.

The highest I would be happy with is 1 million for him.

I think the idea is Holland wants Abdelkader to develop properly in the AHL, where he will get 20 minutes a night, versus stunting his growth in the NHL with 6-7 minutes a night. I don't know how I feel about price. He definitely has a history of injury, but I feel like 1M is low-balling it a bit.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Echolalia

[russianswede919293 95]

I think the idea is Holland wants Abdelkader to develop properly in the AHL, where he will get 20 minutes a night, versus stunting his growth in the NHL with 6-7 minutes a night.

I do agree there with that assessment, but my thoughts on Bertuzzi at 1.5 being too much are not changed by that.

[Echolalia 2,961]

You responded too quick. I edited my post accordingly.

[russianswede919293 95]

You responded too quick. I edited my post accordingly.

Sorry. It is slightly low-balling, but he is still getting 1.33 million from Anaheim this year as part of the buy-out. so he is actually earning, whatever a team pays him, plus his buy-out money...

I know it doesn't correlate, but in my irrational mind Todd Bertuzzi does not deserve to earn a total of 2.8 million dollars...

In my rational mind I know its solely down to what he is offered from teams this year. I agree 1 mill may be too low, so lets say 1.25 so that its the same as Lilja's LTIR and it doesn't affect the cap space at all, even that would be better to me.

In my eyes, Bertuzzi is another year older, another year more broken down physically, and coming off a streak (including playoffs 6 gp 1 g 1 a 8 PENALTY MINUTES!!!) where he played 38 games with 5 goals and 15 points, but racked in the penalty minutes while doing so...

[rick zombo 3,739]

Sorry. It is slightly low-balling, but he is still getting 1.33 million from Anaheim this year as part of the buy-out. so he is actually earning, whatever a team pays him, plus his buy-out money...

I know it doesn't correlate, but in my irrational mind Todd Bertuzzi does not deserve to earn a total of 2.8 million dollars...

In my rational mind I know its solely down to what he is offered from teams this year. I agree 1 mill may be too low, so lets say 1.25 so that its the same as Lilja's LTIR and it doesn't affect the cap space at all, even that would be better to me.

In my eyes, Bertuzzi is another year older, another year more broken down physically, and coming off a streak (including playoffs 6 gp 1 g 1 a 8 PENALTY MINUTES!!!) where he played 38 games with 5 goals and 15 points, but racked in the penalty minutes while doing so...

To address the penalty minute issue: I would imagine playing for The Wings and Babcock will be a little more settling for Bertuzzi with regards to attitude and discipline than playing for Keenan and The Flames.