For the last time...

[Echolalia 2,961]

My suggestion if (I know it'll never happen, ever) Rafalski would waive his NTC. Sign Zherdev for 10 mil for 3 years. 3.33 per. Sign Schneider for 2 mil for a year. Fits easily into this year's cap.

Next year.... Sign Kovalchuk to a Zetterberg special. 8 x 8, 6 x2, 1 x2. $78 million over 12 years. 6.5 cap hit. Give Lidstrom 4 mil. Promote our non waiver exempt dudes (Kindl, Kolosov, Abdelkader, Ritola) and bring up Axelsson if he's ready. Lilja or a replacment for a mil. All that for a grand total of 54.25.

Done and done

1) Like you said, Rafalski won't waive the no-trade clause

2) Zherdev has said he wants at least 4M, but most likely closer to 4.5-5M. 3.33M/year is not going to fly with him.

3) Highly unlikely that Kovalchuk signs for 6.5M/year, especially considering that's pretty much what his current cap hit is.

4) Lidstrom at 4M is zany.

5) This roster has way too many uncertainties as it is. Assuming Schneider is still playing next year, assuming Axelsson is some prodigy and not only is capable of second line minutes his rookie year, but that Holland and co. are comfortable with him in that spot, assuming Kindl, Kolosov, Abdelkader, Ritola, etc are ready to be promoted, assuming the cap doesn't drop, assuming Draper doesn't retire, assuming Howard is actually NHL material, assuming Ozzy doesn't retire or start to suck.

[b.shanafan14 733]

Let's say for the sake of argument that somehow we could possibly make a series of moves over the next two seasons to bring in Kovalchuk, that isn't how professional sports works. No team makes two seasons worth of moves to change over multiple key roster spots for the hope of getting a single free-agent who could in the end simply say 'no'.

So as much fun as it is to say "Player A waives NTC, we trade him for aging Player B. Sign Players C and D for way below asking price. Player E resigns for half-price and at the start of next season, everyones favorite Player F takes a discount to play here, championship won in droves, fanbase euphoria for the next decades" we'd save plenty of arguments if we kept everything within the immediate realm of possibility.

That said: Our defense is superb as is. Stuart and Rafalski have NTC. End of story.

[unsaddleddonald 357]

as a public service announcement to this board...

Brad Stuart is a perfect number 4 D-Man - he is not a 1, he is not a 2, hell, he's not even our number 3 (while he'd be a 2 on any other team) he took a discount to stay here and he has... for the last f'in time... A...

NO.

TRADE.

CLAUSE.

OK...but with that said it is still a bid head scratching as to why we are dishing out 3.5 million a year for a D-men who contributes NOTHING offensively and is susceptible to making bone-headed plays in his own zone....and i am willing to bet Ericsson takes over the 4th spot this year.

[toby91_ca 620]

This has nothing to do with whether I think Stuart should be traded or not, but I also get a little frustrated when so many people suggest there is no way "x" player is going to be traded....he's got a NTC. The only thing a NTC does is provide the player with the opportunity to pick the team he will be traded to. If you work out a trade for a player with a NTC, the player would have to approve it (there are also various circumstances and conctractual arrangements), but if the player agrees, he'd be traded.

Yes, it's an added wrinkle that you need to deal with when trying to trade a player, but players with NTC's get traded all the time.

[Leadzedder 4]

1) Like you said, Rafalski won't waive the no-trade clause

Well, that's the basis of my post so I can't argue this point.

2) Zherdev has said he wants at least 4M, but most likely closer to 4.5-5M. 3.33M/year is not going to fly with him.

Originally I wanted 7 million a year from my employer but unfortunately had to settle for just over minimum wage. He wants to play in the NHL. He's expressed an interest in playing for the Wings. He'd probably think Datsyuk's wing would be an ok place to play. If a s*** team had offered him 4 mil this year to play I would guess hed be signed. 3.33 / year for 3 on Detroit. Maybe i'm wrong but i think he takes that deal. And if I'm wrong, oh well. He's gravy. Kovalchuk is the goal.

3) Highly unlikely that Kovalchuk signs for 6.5M/year, especially considering that's pretty much what his current cap hit is.

Yeah, I think he's 6.2 now. But again, we're not Florida. And the 6.5 is really 7.6. It's not the 9 he might get elsewhere but this is 10/12 years. Its' not that bad an offer. Jesus it's 78 million dollars to win some cups and junk over the next decade. Again, he might like his set up man. Might be a convincing factor. But maybe he would need more. I wouldn't go much higher but you could free up more by forgetting about Zherdev

4) Lidstrom at 4M is zany.

Really? I thought that was the consensus.

5) This roster has way too many uncertainties as it is. Assuming Schneider is still playing next year, assuming Axelsson is some prodigy and not only is capable of second line minutes his rookie year, but that Holland and co. are comfortable with him in that spot, assuming Kindl, Kolosov, Abdelkader, Ritola, etc are ready to be promoted, assuming the cap doesn't drop, assuming Draper doesn't retire, assuming Howard is actually NHL material, assuming Ozzy doesn't retire or start to suck.

Schneider is not in the plans after this year. We'd have Lids, Kron, Stuart, Ericsson as top 4, with Kindl, Liljaish player and a number 7. Don't worry about Axelsson, i just meant a cheap entry player. One of Ritola, Ryno, Axelsson, Emmerton, etc will make the roster. And yeah we still got lots of options for Zetterbergs line. Well mostly Cleary. Draper isn't going nowhere. It'll be Osgood and either Howard or Larsson (same cash).

As for the cap... yeah who knows. But what if it doesn't go down? For every mil it doesn't drop I'm less out to lunch than the last.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

OK...but with that said it is still a bid head scratching as to why we are dishing out 3.5 million a year for a D-men who contributes NOTHING offensively and is susceptible to making bone-headed plays in his own zone....and i am willing to bet Ericsson takes over the 4th spot this year.

The Red Wings have three defenseman already who contribute more than enough offensively. Stuart not putting up points doesn't make him useless -- far from it actually. The Red Wings have a nice balance on their roster of offensive-minded defenseman (Rafalski, Kronwall) and solid stay-at-home defenseman (Stuart, Lilja). Lidstrom obviously does everything well.

The bone-headed plays you associated with Stuart are no more common with Stuart than Rafalski or Kronwall. Rafalski coughs up the puck a TON and is nowhere near as good in his own zone than Stuart is. As I stated in a previous post, Stuart was the Red Wings best defenseman when Lidstrom was out. I would recommend going back and watching some games from the past two playoff runs and maybe you will notice how damn good Brad Stuart was.

Edited August 27, 2009 by GoWings1905

[stevkrause 1,247]

My suggestion if (I know it'll never happen, ever) Rafalski would waive his NTC. Sign Zherdev for 10 mil for 3 years. 3.33 per. Sign Schneider for 2 mil for a year. Fits easily into this year's cap.

Next year.... Sign Kovalchuk to a Zetterberg special. 8 x 8, 6 x2, 1 x2. $78 million over 12 years. 6.5 cap hit. Give Lidstrom 4 mil. Promote our non waiver exempt dudes (Kindl, Kolosov, Abdelkader, Ritola) and bring up Axelsson if he's ready. Lilja or a replacment for a mil. All that for a grand total of 54.25.

Done and done

hey nazi mods- why did my reply to this post get deleted?!?!?

Edited August 27, 2009 by stevkrause

[stevkrause 1,247]

The Red Wings have three defenseman already who contribute more than enough offensively. Stuart not putting up points doesn't make him useless -- far from it actually. The Red Wings have a nice balance on their roster of offensive-minded defenseman (Rafalski, Kronwall) and solid stay-at-home defenseman (Stuart, Lilja). Lidstrom obviously does everything well.

The bone-headed plays you associated with Stuart are no more common with Stuart than Rafalski or Kronwall. Rafalski coughs up the puck a TON and is nowhere near as good in his own zone than Stuart is. As I stated in a previous post, Stuart was the Red Wings best defenseman when Lidstrom was out. I would recommend going back and watching some games from the past two playoff runs and maybe you will notice how damn good Brad Stuart was.

this. 1000x over. this.

[elriqo28 2]

Convince Rafalski to waive his no trade clause. Sign Schneider to 2 mil. Free up 4 mil. Welcome back Hudler or even better sign Zherdev to 10 mil for 3 years. With the freed up space next year, reinvest into a fella named Ilya.

Kovalchuk Datsyuk Zherdev

Franzen Zetterberg Axelsson

Leino Filppula Cleary

Abdelkader Helm Draper

I admit... it gives me wood.

wow....glad its that easy!

[Leadzedder 4]

hey nazi mods- why did my reply to this post get deleted?!?!?

Yeah eh? But to answer your question, the same drugs I was on when I predicted the arrivals of Bertuzzi (first time) and Hossa. No other side effects other than to spew out bomb rosters / aquisitions that are in the realm of possibility.

And to respond to the poster that said that a gm doesn't make moves to accomodate future moves. Come on, you don't think Holland knows Kovalchuk might be available next year. You don't think he's given a second thought to reallocating that 6 mil to Kovalchuk. Not saying he would but that's his job. It's not like he runs a convenience store on his off days while not doing the draft or the trade deadline. I'm quite sure he's familiar with forecasting and asset management.

[VM1138 1,921]

I honestly have no idea why we would ever even want to trade him. The guy is extremely solid, especially as a pair with Kronwall come spring time.

EXactly. The guy has a bad Game 7 and suddenly everyone forgets he was one of our best players throughout the playoffs two years in a row.

[AtomicPunk 296]

News flash - ATLANTA HAS NO HIGH PRICED FREE AGENTS. They will throw their checkbook at Ilya. Don't even DREAM of him coming here. They can pay him more than anyone else, and will. He is already making 7.5 Mill.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

News flash - ATLANTA HAS NO HIGH PRICED FREE AGENTS. They will throw their checkbook at Ilya. Don't even DREAM of him coming here. They can pay him more than anyone else, and will. He is already making 7.5 Mill.

On the flip side, they have very minimal talent surrounding Kovalchuk. They can offer him a huge contract, but no chance of winning.

[Buppy 1,720]

Not sure if anyone mentioned it already or not, but I'd like to point out the irrelevance of a NTC in terms of idle speculation from fans regarding trading a player, especially considering team management has never given any indication of willingness to trade said player. It's not really any less likely for Stuart to approve a hypothetical trade than it is for the teams involved in said hypothetical to agree on it in the first place. Might be different if the team had expressed a desire to trade him, or asked him to waive his NTC.

That said, the reason to trade him is that we have an exceptional corps of defensemen, and if we traded him for a solid stay-at-home Lilja-esque type we would still be very good and could free up 2-ish million or more in cap space.

Not sure how that would really help anything now, maybe before we signed Willy and Bert, but whatever...

Edited August 27, 2009 by Buppy

[stevkrause 1,247]

Yeah eh? But to answer your question, the same drugs I was on when I predicted the arrivals of Bertuzzi (first time) and Hossa. No other side effects other than to spew out bomb rosters / aquisitions that are in the realm of possibility.

And to respond to the poster that said that a gm doesn't make moves to accomodate future moves. Come on, you don't think Holland knows Kovalchuk might be available next year. You don't think he's given a second thought to reallocating that 6 mil to Kovalchuk. Not saying he would but that's his job. It's not like he runs a convenience store on his off days while not doing the draft or the trade deadline. I'm quite sure he's familiar with forecasting and asset management.

no, what you were suggesting was wholesale changes and that one of the top 10 players in the league would take approx 2-4 mil less a year to come to a new team, then infusing it with young, unprovens to a team that is STILL IN THE TOP OF THE LEAGUE - that is not what an NHL GM, let alone someone as astute as Holland would do and it's beyond preposterous... this is not a one player move like Bertuzzi or Hossa... and if you're suggesting it's a possibility, you're clearly high.

Edited August 27, 2009 by stevkrause

[stevkrause 1,247]

Maybe we can get everyone to sign for the league minimum and then Illitch will drop ticket prices, give out free beer, free handjobs from super models in the bathrooms and Karyn Newman will sing the anthem topless. You must have turned the salary cap option off on your xbox because that is fantasy land at best !!

exactly.

[BeeRYCE 2]

HE.

CAN.

WAIVE.

HIS.

NO.

TRADE.

CLAUSE.

Just because a player has a no trade clause, doesn't mean it's impossible to trade him. If the circumstances are right, I think Stuart would waive it...

Edited August 28, 2009 by BeeRYCE

[AtomicPunk 296]

HE.

CAN.

WAIVE.

HIS.

NO.

TRADE.

CLAUSE.

Just because a player has a no trade clause, doesn't mean it's impossible to trade him. If the circumstances are right, I think Stuart would waive it...

What might those circumstances be? For a player who is not on the block to be traded, management loves him, coaches love him, he plays hard, what pray tell would make him want to be traded?

"Oh, you want somebody else? Why didn't you say so? Sure, I'll go to Edmonton and not make the playoffs...." That's why they negotiate those things.

[eva unit zero 271]

Okay dumb question here...When, or why did this topic of trading/not trading Stewie come outta nowhere?...Other than a few gaffes in game 7 - I thought he played quite well throughout the reg season, and playoffs.

Because Hudler was not granted a transfer card by the IIHF and therefore cannot play or practice with Dynamo. Assuming this puts Hudler back on the Wings' roster, then the Wings have fourteen forwards (counting Bertuzzi, Williams, and Eaves of new signings plus Helm, Leino, and all returnees), eight defensemen (including Lilja), and two goaltenders.

If we assume Lilja is going to be on LTIR, then the Wings would be about $2.6m over the cap at that point. 14 forwards, 7 defensemen, 2 goalies. One of Eaves/Helm/Leino probably goes to Grand Rapids. I bet on Eaves and his $500k; that makes it $2.1m over the cap.

So the question is, what players are potentially tradeable that can clear up that kind of space? We'll start with forwards. Hudler is the obvious one to mention. Filppula and Holmstrom are the only others that make that much or more. On defense? You're looking at Rafalski, Stuart, and Kronwall. Filppula, Hudler, and Kronwall are all young, skilled players who can make up the core of a winning team for a long time. Holmstrom has solid chemistry with Dats and Z but is getting older and declining. Rafalski and Stuart have NTCs.

Who do you trade out of that group? As great of a #4 as Stuart makes, I'd pick him to trade if he were willing to waive his NTC.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Okay dumb question here...When, or why did this topic of trading/not trading Stewie come outta nowhere?...Other than a few gaffes in game 7 - I thought he played quite well throughout the reg season, and playoffs.

Your not alone

[DMAC 25 18]

as a public service announcement to this board...

Brad Stuart is a perfect number 4 D-Man - he is not a 1, he is not a 2, hell, he's not even our number 3 (while he'd be a 2 on any other team) he took a discount to stay here and he has... for the last f'in time... A...

NO.

TRADE.

CLAUSE.

finally someone says something about it, thank u it was getting very annoying

[Guest Crymson]

Because Hudler was not granted a transfer card by the IIHF and therefore cannot play or practice with Dynamo. Assuming this puts Hudler back on the Wings' roster...

If this were to happen, I'd expect Holland to waive Hudler. Who wants a player who doesn't want to be on the team?

[thedisappearer 291]

So we can't trade Stuart. Fine.

Can we trade Clearly and the rights to Yzerman? I'm thinking we'd get a 1st rounder for, like, 20 years.

[RedFX 48]

HE.

CAN.

WAIVE.

HIS.

NO.

TRADE.

CLAUSE.

Just because a player has a no trade clause, doesn't mean it's impossible to trade him. If the circumstances are right, I think Stuart would waive it...

Have you ever considered why players ask for a NTC in the first place?

[eva unit zero 271]

If this were to happen, I'd expect Holland to waive Hudler. Who wants a player who doesn't want to be on the team?

Holland would never waive Hudler. He'd trade him inside the division for a 7th round pick before he waived him.

If all that happens is Hudler returns, and either Helm or Eaves is sent down in response, then the Wings are between $3.15 and $3.25 over the cap with 13 forwards, 8 defensemen, and 2 goalies. This is including Lilja, who may be on LTIR. If so, the Wings would be at or just below $2m over the cap, with 13-7-2. So they could drop any of the top four defensemen and replace them with Delmore or Kindl, or a cheap ($500k-$750k) stay-at-home defenseman in return in the trade and make the cap. They also could trade Hudler, Cleary, Filppula, Franzen, Zetterberg, or Datsyuk, replace them with Helm/Eaves. It's all about perspective. What makes the Wings a better team? Ericsson could probably step right into Stuart's spot and not miss a beat. If Lilja is around, then the 3rd pair is Lilja and either Lebda or Meech. Or perhaps Lilja plays with Kronwall, and Ericsson plays opposite Lebda/Meech. It allows the Wings a deeper forward corps with more forwards capable of scoring, with most likely three lines that will have good to very good scoring numbers.

The best option, as he is the most expendable of the top four defensemen and has the least bearing on the future of the team of any of the players who could potentially clear up the cap overage, forward or defense. The Wings do need to improve their defensive play, but by adding to one of the top-two forward lines a highly skilled playmaker with a good shot and plays above-average defense, it allows the team more time of possession than if the team has someone who isn't a skilled playmaker, and doesn't have a terribly accurate shot, but plays solid defense. The former is going to be turning the puck over less, and even if he isn't stopping as many chances against the team when the opposing team has the puck, his increased possession of the puck will reduce the chances the opposition has. It's the classic line; the best defense is a good offense. If the puck is always in the other end, Osgood and Howard won't need to worry about stopping shots on goal.

Of course, the puck won't always be in the other end, but having Hudler on one of the top two lines is better than many of the options from last season who played there. Especially if he continues to improve his skating, strength, and defensive play as he has been.

And that is why the topic of trading Stuart has come back up; whether he has a NTC or not, if Hudler is back on the Wings' roster, then the Wings need to clear some cap space and trading him should be looked at as the first option. Perhaps Stuart to Dallas for Jeff Woywitka and a 3rd to partially cover the loss of franchise defenseman Sergei Zubov. Stuart would probably thrive in that situation, as he'd get a lot of PP and PK time and would probably play on the top pairing and get significant minutes.