Franzen's injury

[XxGoWingsxX 0]

Ok so yes of course it's a huge loss and sucks that the Mule got hurt and will be out so long. But I have a little theory. The Wings were one of the best defensive teams back in 08 when the won the cup. Come 09 and they Relied on their offensive power to attack instead of defending until they just outscored the other team and won. This year started off a little shaky defensively (ok, horribly) and we were scoring enough goals to win games, but our PK and overall defense plus turnovers cost us a couple games after holding a lead.

When the wings beat Chicago they played better defensively but If ozzie hadn't played outta his mind that could have been a loss too. I mean, they truly showed they're trying to improve defensively against the Hawks. Especially when they killed off the early 5 on 3. So, Franzen is out meaning we lose a 35-40 goal scorer for 4 months. We will HAVE to adapt to that and relearn to think defense first in Franzen's absence because we can't rely solely on our scoring power anymore.

I see this as a kind of good thing. Not the fact that Franzen is hurt, but the fact that if the boys wanna win they're going to have to go back to old ways of tightening up d and taking advantage of the other team's mistakes. Then when Franzen returns, we should be back in pretty damn good defensive form and should be able to open up the offense a little more and prepare for the playoffs.

Maybe this is a long shot but it seems to make so much sense to me. What do you guys think?

[Radic 0]

Its not a good thing.. since Babcock is unable to make lineup changes ever unless his hand is forced. So now Datsyuk is going to be playing with Homer and someone else that will do nothing with his passes. Zetterberg will be stuck with two offensive anchors on his line(Cleary, Bertuzzi) and the third line will continue to role.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg should have never been separated a year and a half ago but its Mike's wet dream.

[XxGoWingsxX 0]

Its not a good thing.. since Babcock is unable to make lineup changes ever unless his hand is forced. So now Datsyuk is going to be playing with Homer and someone else that will do nothing with his passes. Zetterberg will be stuck with two offensive anchors on his line(Cleary, Bertuzzi) and the third line will continue to role.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg should have never been separated a year and a half ago but its Mike's wet dream.

That has nothing to do with what i'm talking about. Babcock will have to adapt too and that may mean line juggling but i'm talking about defense, all you're talking about is offense.

[Radic 0]

That has nothing to do with what i'm talking about. Babcock will have to adapt too and that may mean line juggling but i'm talking about defense, all you're talking about is offense.

Team defense starts with the forwards. Kronwall, Rafalski, Lebda, Meech are not defensive specialists. They're puck movers.

Last nights game was so close because everyone was making terrible passes out of their own zone and in the neutral zone.

Franzen getting injured just means that there will be even less chemistry on lines and it'll look like a bigger mess. Expect dump and chase hockey unless they pair the Euro twins back together.

[Yzermania 156]

I see what youre saying...but it's just trying to find a bright side. I don't see anything magically fixing the problems with our d. It seems everytime we think they are back on track, the next game they blow it again.

[XxGoWingsxX 0]

Team defense starts with the forwards. Kronwall, Rafalski, Lebda, Meech are not defensive specialists. They're puck movers.

Last nights game was so close because everyone was making terrible passes out of their own zone and in the neutral zone.

Franzen getting injured just means that there will be even less chemistry on lines and it'll look like a bigger mess. Expect dump and chase hockey unless they pair the Euro twins back together.

Ohh ok, i see what you're saying. You do have a point. But again, this will force them to have to tighten up if they wanna win.

[XxGoWingsxX 0]

I see what youre saying...but it's just trying to find a bright side. I don't see anything magically fixing the problems with our d. It seems everytime we think they are back on track, the next game they blow it again.

You also have a point lol. But have a little confidence. This team is known for adapting to win. Look, I'd say the main reason we lost the cup last year is we finally WERE too soft and became riddled with injuries preventing us from playing to our full potential. So, this year we sign some grittier forwards and babcock finally stated with signing may that he acknowledged that we needed someone like may because with him out there we don't get run as much. May did his job against Chi lol. So my point is, we adapted to fix a weakness from last year. Why can't we adapt to play great defense. Something this team KNOWS how to do. They just need to actually do it.

[Buppy 1,720]

Ok so yes of course it's a huge loss and sucks that the Mule got hurt and will be out so long. But I have a little theory. .... We will HAVE to adapt to that and relearn to think defense first in Franzen's absence because we can't rely solely on our scoring power anymore.

...

Two problems:

1. Franzen is a good defensive forward, and we'll miss that aspect as well.

2. Much of our defensive prowess over the past years is due to our puck possession game. That also takes a hit with Franzen gone.

[Carman 387]

Well it's either we improve defense or have a 5th-8th seed or even out for the playoffs. Franzen was going to be relied on heavily this season. I have faith the Red Wing's will battle through, but this is shaping up to be a tough compared to our previous years.

[Radic 0]

Ohh ok, i see what you're saying. You do have a point. But again, this will force them to have to tighten up if they wanna win.

If by "tighten up" you mean play the trap circa 1995 sure. Because with the forward line combination in their current form, puck possession doesn't exist.

And it doesn't help on the backend when you have Kronwall pinching constantly or making gaffs in his own end. Or having Meech give away the puck every time hes pressured. Or Rafalski, instead of clearing the puck off the boards or glass always finds a reason to skate it behind the goal line, get pressured and give the puck back.

Osgood has played pretty well but its time to take a serious look at this defensive core as an entire unit. Raffy and Kronwall are just brutal in their own end.

[dropkickshanahans 463]

They already do their best defensively, they just have to stick to the gameplan every game. Move the puck around effectively and get the puck in deep. Possession is our main defense and the reason we've looked bad was because we didn't stick to the plan and kept playing on our heels at bad points during a game to try and sit on a lead.

[XxGoWingsxX 0]

If by "tighten up" you mean play the trap circa 1995 sure. Because with the forward line combination in their current form, puck possession doesn't exist.

And it doesn't help on the backend when you have Kronwall pinching constantly or making gaffs in his own end. Or having Meech give away the puck every time hes pressured. Or Rafalski, instead of clearing the puck off the boards or glass always finds a reason to skate it behind the goal line, get pressured and give the puck back.

Osgood has played pretty well but its time to take a serious look at this defensive core as an entire unit. Raffy and Kronwall are just brutal in their own end.

Finally, someone who can debate without being a ****** lol. Again good points. Chicago did outshoot us badly and everyone made mistakes, but it was a huge improvement over the sweden games IMO and it can still get better.

[Seraph 240]

I can go along with what you are saying. I actually don't think it would be entirely a bad thing for this team to play through some serious adversity. Last year we were having defensive problems, but somehow we were still squeaking out wins, a lot of the time in the final minutes of games. If your D is sloppy but you're still winning, it's not a very good catalyst for change. And we finally paid for it in that seventh game. I think we're going to be in a slump for a while after this, especially as everyone adjusts. It might actually cause players to reassess how they are playing, and tighten up the D.

Basically, it's one thing to try and tighten your D when you're winning, but another when you MUST change in order to win.

Edited October 10, 2009 by The Nephilim

[XxGoWingsxX 0]

I can go along with what you are saying. I actually don't think it would be entirely a bad thing for this team to play through some serious adversity. Last year we were having defensive problems, but somehow we were still squeaking out wins, a lot of the time in the final minutes of games. If your D is sloppy but you're still winning, it's not a very good catalyst for change. And we finally paid for it in that seventh game. I think we're going to be in a slump for a while after this, especially as everyone adjusts. It might actually cause players to reassess how they are playing, and tighten up the D.

Basically, it's one thing to try and tighten your D when you're winning, but another when you MUST change in order to win.

YES, you get what i'm saying. that is exactly my point.

[Theophany 110]

Team defense starts with the forwards. Kronwall, Rafalski, Lebda, Meech are not defensive specialists. They're puck movers.

Last nights game was so close because everyone was making terrible passes out of their own zone and in the neutral zone.

Franzen getting injured just means that there will be even less chemistry on lines and it'll look like a bigger mess. Expect dump and chase hockey unless they pair the Euro twins back together.

Kronwall's not a defensive specialist?

What? Did I miss the part where he was in on the 5v3 last night over Lidstrom, the guy with six Norris Trophies at home?

[Radic 0]

Kronwall's not a defensive specialist?

What? Did I miss the part where he was in on the 5v3 last night over Lidstrom, the guy with six Norris Trophies at home?

You must have missed the part where he lost the puck in his feet infront of Osgood and led to a scoring chance.. or the numerous turn overs or the odd man rushes caused by pinching and or looking for a hit.

Kronwall is an offensive defenseman who sometimes hits.

[Winged_Wheeler 3]

Its not a good thing.. since Babcock is unable to make lineup changes ever unless his hand is forced. So now Datsyuk is going to be playing with Homer and someone else that will do nothing with his passes. Zetterberg will be stuck with two offensive anchors on his line(Cleary, Bertuzzi) and the third line will continue to role.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg should have never been separated a year and a half ago but its Mike's wet dream.

I strongly agree with every word. Our second line with Zetterberg, Cleary, and Bertuzzi is terrible...I don't know why Babcock broke what was already there, the Euro Twins tearing it up together, now chemistry is being lost between them. Just because Hossa was here last year didn't mean we had to split Zetterberg and Datsyuk, should have just put him a line with Filppula and Franzen, and what happened when they were together? They were unstoppable.

Now this year Babs places Z on a line with Cleary and Bertuzzi? Sorry but Cleary is not a superstar. Cleary had a good playoff last year and I hope he proves me wrong this season with his abilities.

Here's my lines without the Mule

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom (Cleary)

Leino-Filppula-Bertuzzi

(Holmstrom)Cleary-Helm-Williams

Maltby-Draper-(who ever, May, Eaves, Abby)

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Staurt

Ericsson-Meech

Osgood

Howard

Brad McCrimmon and Brett Lebda take classes on Hockey Defense 101

[The Mule 0]

In no way, shape, or form is losing Franzen even remotely a "good" thing.

[Broken 16 381]

You must have missed the part where he lost the puck in his feet infront of Osgood and led to a scoring chance.. or the numerous turn overs or the odd man rushes caused by pinching and or looking for a hit.

Kronwall is an offensive defenseman who sometimes hits.

You really need to stop. All you're proving is that you don't know what you're talking about. Comparing a crucial defensive assignment to an error during play isn't helping your case. Also, "numerous turnovers" is a stretch.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Broken 16

[Guest Four]

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom

Leino-Filppula-Williams

Cleary-Helm-Eaves

Maltby-Draper-Bertuzzi

[Theophany 110]

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom

Leino-Filppula-Cleary

Williams-Helm-Bert

Maltby-Draper-May

Fixed that one for you.

[Doc Holiday 0]

You must have missed the part where he lost the puck in his feet infront of Osgood and led to a scoring chance.. or the numerous turn overs or the odd man rushes caused by pinching and or looking for a hit.

Kronwall is an offensive defenseman who sometimes hits.

If he was such a terrible defensive player he wouldn't be on a five on freaking three penalty kill now would he?

With Franzen gone, Babcock and the rest of the team is going to have to take a serious look at their team system and work on the serious problems that are apparent. It gives them adversity. It gives them something to prove. Something to prove to the rest of the NHL, the media, and the fans that just because there is a salary cap doesn't mean they have to be like everyone else and struggle when the going gets tough. Detroit didn't develop a winning system founded by guys like Stevey Y, the Russian five, Nicklas Lidstrom, Scotty Bowman, Brendan Shanahan, Ken Holland, Jimmy D, and Hakan Andersson just to fall into a hole simply because the team isn't loaded with talent like they once were. This system is the best in sports. Now they have a chance to prove it.

[Icesurfer 75]

An injury is NEVER a good thing... especially when there could be long term effects with someone signed for so long. IMHO we will see recurrent injuries with Franzen... it is 3 years in a row so far.

[XxGoWingsxX 0]

If he was such a terrible defensive player he wouldn't be on a five on freaking three penalty kill now would he?

With Franzen gone, Babcock and the rest of the team is going to have to take a serious look at their team system and work on the serious problems that are apparent. It gives them adversity. It gives them something to prove. Something to prove to the rest of the NHL, the media, and the fans that just because there is a salary cap doesn't mean they have to be like everyone else and struggle when the going gets tough. Detroit didn't develop a winning system founded by guys like Stevey Y, the Russian five, Nicklas Lidstrom, Scotty Bowman, Brendan Shanahan, Ken Holland, Jimmy D, and Hakan Andersson just to fall into a hole simply because the team isn't loaded with talent like they once were. This system is the best in sports. Now they have a chance to prove it.

Yes, someone else with sense...you also understand what i mean

[XxGoWingsxX 0]

An injury is NEVER a good thing... especially when there could be long term effects with someone signed for so long. IMHO we will see recurrent injuries with Franzen... it is 3 years in a row so far.

Well of course the injury itself isn't a good thing. Did you even read the whole thing? His absence could be a good thing.