10/17 GDT: Avalanche 4 at Red Wings 3, (SO)

[gcom007 1,465]

Saying the Filpulla will amount to nothing more than an upgraded Draper is just being a bonafide fool. Saying he won't be a superstar or not thinking he'll score 70 points isn't bashing him, but what you're saying is a bash and there is no way around it.

In my opinion, you're only showing a lot of disrespect to Draper and dramatically misunderstanding how incredibly important he has been to this team for a long time. You're talking about a guy who helped define the role of the modern checking, shut-down center. You're talking about a Selke winner. You're talking about a 4th line guy who managed to crack team Canada's olympic lineup in 2006. I'm not knocking Finland, but Flip playing for team Finland is nothing like the accomplishment of Draper being selected to play for Team Canada. That was a big, big deal.

I'm sorry, but I think you're flat out wrong if you think me saying that Flip is better suited as the new and improved Draper is a bash. You can disagree with me all you want, but to deduce what I'm saying to "bash" level simply proves how little respect and understanding you have of what Draper has meant to this team throughout his career.

[cboth686 0]

Didn't Holland and Babcock explain to Ozzie last year that he needs to get his s*** together and stop taking nights off?

He's just back to his old ways.

This is getting ridiculous. How he goes from so good in the playoffs to so lackluster in the regular season is beyong me. I sure hope Osgood doesn't need another "mental break"...Oh wait, he'll get one come olympic time i guess...Gotta have those mental breaks its tough playing behind one of the best teams in the league!

[gcom007 1,465]

Yeah, I think he'd have made a better arguement by saying Filppula was the heir apparent to the 3rd line checker's role than the 4th line centre. In the end I think Filppula's a good 2nd line centre but he's an excellent 3rd line centre. So I guess it depends on where you want to put him. Wherever he is, he's certainly an above average hockey player and a core player on this team. As far as his all-around play goes he looks like he'll one day be an "excellent" hockey player based solely on the fact that all aspects of his play have the potential to be very good.

Could he be a fine 3rd line center? Sure. It's not like he'd suck. He's hardly horrible offensively. But I think you can stick Jason Williams there really and he'll do a better job in terms of handling the "scoring" part of scoring line 3. But you want to ice a checking line that can shut down and play with a #1 line and still create some offense? You want to see Flip play to his strengths? Again, I just think about how much more comfortable he would probably be at the role. I don't think he looks comfortable at all in the offensive zone and I never have. Datsyuk always struggled with shooting, but he still dazzled people endlessly on the attack. Flip has never been that guy. He always looks more awkward and lost and let's face it, he doesn't have the best offensive skills. Personally, I'd rather see the guy be the best 4th line center and win Selke's than a so-so 3rd line center. I think it makes more sense long-run.

[Snazzy 0]

When Wings lose it's always the goalies fault. Mhmmm... Sad! I have not read one person write in this thread that Avalanche might just be a good team with not the "best" players, but the "right" players. I'm willing to bet that Avs aren't doing this well this year because they suck. Maybe people should stop underestimating them. They are playing like they have nothing to lose...and they don't.

Give credit where credit is due.

FWW, Chicago lost to Dallas and Penguins lost to the yotes already this season.

Good win by the Avs. Hope they make the Play Offs

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Could he be a fine 3rd line center? Sure. It's not like he'd suck. He's hardly horrible offensively. But I think you can stick Jason Williams there really and he'll do a better job in terms of handling the "scoring" part of scoring line 3. But you want to ice a checking line that can shut down and play with a #1 line and still create some offense? You want to see Flip play to his strengths? Again, I just think about how much more comfortable he would probably be at the role. I don't think he looks comfortable at all in the offensive zone and I never have. Datsyuk always struggled with shooting, but he still dazzled people endlessly on the attack. Flip has never been that guy. He always looks more awkward and lost and let's face it, he doesn't have the best offensive skills. Personally, I'd rather see the guy be the best 4th line center and win Selke's than a so-so 3rd line center. I think it makes more sense long-run.

I agree with you on 90% of what you're saying, although I think Filppula's upper end offensive potential is around 60pts, so it's not like he's a poor 3rd line centre. He had 42 last season, which is very respectible for a 3rd line centre. Basically I agree with you buy I'd shift the lines up by one line each time. In today's NHL Draper (in his prime) would have been a 3rd line centre, not a 4th line. We were just spoiled by the amazing depth of the Wings' teams pre-lockout. The 3rd line is where you see the shut-down checking centre these days, with the 4th reserved for aging veterans and kids.

The thing is, I think Filppula could be a 3rd line centre that wins a Selke later on in his career. He's got the tools to be that kind of guy. He's also got the tools to be a decent 2nd line centre if he keeps working at it. He doesn't have the natural offensive talent to be a big point producer, but his ability to hold on to the puck, skating, defensive acumen and his work ethic are such that he can probably make up for some of his offensive failings in the long-run.

[RedWingsRox 614]

wow ... Colorado is on top of the Western Conference. So technically, we lost to the best team in the West.

And Phoenix is 3rd ... top of their Confernce.

What a strange year !

[Drake_Marcus 890]

wow ... Colorado is on top of the Western Conference. So technically, we lost to the best team in the West.

And Phoenix is 3rd ... top of their Confernce.

What a strange year !

Not that things will stay like this, but yeah, it's starting out like a very strange year.

[clutchngrab 12]

They were defensively responsible overall and outplayed the avs 80% of the game. Our goalie decided to take a night off or we have 2 points.

Edited October 18, 2009 by clutchngrab

[clutchngrab 12]

It's been a long time since the Wings have had to scrap their way into the playoffs.

I hope this isn't the year it we have to see it.

Scrapping is in effect. Tonight was very disappointing. We cannot win consistently with this goaltending situation regardless of how focused the team is on defense. There is no offensive padding for the goalie this year unlike last year.

Edited October 18, 2009 by clutchngrab

[cboth686 0]

Scrapping is in effect. Tonight was very disappointing. We cannot win consistently with this goaltending situation regardless of how focused the team is on defense. There is no offensive padding for the goalie this year unlike last year.

I'm a nail and you just hit me on the head.

[Doc Holiday 0]

They were defensively responsible overall and outplayed the avs 80% of the game. Our goalie decided to take a night off or we have 2 points.

He took two shots off. That's it.

He was perfectly solid the rest of the night.

[rick zombo 3,739]

He took two shots off. That's it.

He was perfectly solid the rest of the night.

The first goal was Lebda's fault for letting the balde of his stick get in the way.

BUT the 2nd goal, Duchene's goal was bad. Even if it was a screen. Any goalie with size would have made that save on positioning alone. Lundquist? Backstrom? Even our rookie McCallum at 6'2" 210lbs. I've always thought of Osgood as being mentally tough, but physically, he's out of it compared to today's younger goalies. Osgood looks like a man that time left behind. He looks like Billy Smith out there.

[Nev 1,085]

Filppula still holds onto the puck far too much, but to be fair it took Datsyuk years to figure out how to best make use of his passing skills without holding the puck too much (for years "SHOOT!" was the number one complaint about Dats ).

The big problem on these forums is the unrealistic expectations for Filppula. Right now he's playing above the expectations of an objective hockey analyst looking from the outside in, but he'll likely never be the player some Detroit fans think he will be.

I think the bigger problems is the Straw Men the Filpulla bashers invent - I don't recall anyone saying he's the next Datsyuk or Zetterberg, as the Flip bashers are so fond of refuting. All the Flip fans (including myself) have always seen him as a solid 2nd line centre, excellent defensively, really good skater, good playmaker, capable of 50-70 points with the right linemates and sufficient ice-time.

And yes, his biggest problem is shot selection. It doesn't even matter if his shot sucks, Babcock will still want him to shoot for screens, tips and rebounds. When he does decide to shoot, it always seems to be a from the wrong place.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

I'm happy he got the goal but if he and Leino were in similar spots, that play doesn't happen. I don't care how botched it is, Flip has a knack for simply failing to make plays in the offensive zone. Sure, he's fairly strong on the puck especially in our end and up the middle, but when he starts carrying it in to the offensive zone, the guy just looks confused. He doesn't know whether to shoot or pass because he has no faith in his shot. And you know, that wouldn't be such a bad thing if he had a descent shot because you can always work through that. But the thing is, he doesn't have a good shot so he's actually right to question it, but that's neither here nor there. Bottom line is you can tell he just doesn't have the vision or 6th sense that the truly gifted playmakers have. Watch how often he ends up just drifting towards the corners with the puck only to do nothing with it. Seriously, go ahead in the next couple games and count how many times he carries the puck in and what happens. It leaves me as befuddled as I think he may feel at times.

I certainly agree that the guy is really strong defensively. I guess my biggest frustration is that in our hunt to try to make him out to be the next Datsyuk, are we not doing him and ultimately the team a greater disservice in simply trying to make him out to be the new (and rather improved) Kris Draper? I see the guy fitting in a role like that far more to be honest. He's got the speed and size to be a great shut down defensive-forward. His assets are far more suited for a shut-down, checking role if you ask me. The thing is though, he's still got better hands than Draper (though that's not saying much) so he'd really be a great successor in my mind. Again, the guy's got all the tools if you ask me. He doesn't have a great knack for offense, doesn't have a great shot and doesn't tend to finish plays well (to the corners and cough!). But he can fly, he's smart defensively, he's strong on a face-off and he's got a bit of size that he could likely learn to use better.

I mean, if AussieWing wants to say that I just am negative about him, that's fine, but I simply don't see it that way. I don't think the guys a scoring line center. I don't think he sucks. I think he could win Selke's and be a big improvement over Draper on the checking line. I still think that's likely where he'll end up if he isn't traded first, and I really don't consider that a bad thing at all. Our 4th line has been quintessential to much of our success through the years and a guy like Flip only stands to take it to the next level.

Filppula a 4th liner, unbelievable. I knew you didn't like him but now you've just gone and lost all credability.

[Guest mindfly]

Osgood would be alot better if he was 6'4 210lbs.. now he just looks tiny all the time and opposition takes full advantage of that everything goes through him... under arms, highglove, fivehole, under blocker, bleh he just looks so small to be a good goalie in the 09-10 NHL.

[Snazzy 0]

The first goal was Lebda's fault for letting the balde of his stick get in the way.

BUT the 2nd goal, Duchene's goal was bad. Even if it was a screen. Any goalie with size would have made that save on positioning alone. Lundquist? Backstrom? Even our rookie McCallum at 6'2" 210lbs. I've always thought of Osgood as being mentally tough, but physically, he's out of it compared to today's younger goalies. Osgood looks like a man that time left behind. He looks like Billy Smith out there.

Funny. Cause I don't remember you saying this when Osgood took this team to the finals two years in a row. It's also funny that you are comparing a $6,875,000 goalie and a $6,000,000 goalie to a $1.4 million dollar goalie.

See, I know you never heard of this. But there is this little thing called "salary cap". You may want to look it up, because obviously have no clue about anything in the NHL. To help you, I am supplying you a link for you to read. You really should read this so you don't continue looking like a big fool on here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary_cap -- Be sure to click "salary cap in the NHL".

You really should do more reading and less posting.

[Finnish Wing 110]

Funny. Cause I don't remember you saying this when Osgood took this team to the finals two years in a row. It's also funny that you are comparing a $6,875,000 goalie and a $6,000,000 goalie to a $1.4 million dollar goalie.

See, I know you never heard of this. But there is this little thing called "salary cap". You may want to look it up, because obviously have no clue about anything in the NHL. To help you, I am supplying you a link for you to read. You really should read this so you don't continue looking like a big fool on here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary_cap -- Be sure to click "salary cap in the NHL".

You really should do more reading and less posting.

Osgood is steal, no doubt about that. But is goalie the right position to bargain in? Single most important position in the team (after coach).

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Osgood is steal, no doubt about that. But is goalie the right position to bargain in? Single most important position in the team (after coach).

I think it's paid off pretty handsomely in recent years, so I haven't got any real complaints. It's just annoying how during the season Osgood seems to surrender a weak goal every night, when he gave up maybe one or two all post season.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Osgood is steal, no doubt about that. But is goalie the right position to bargain in? Single most important position in the team (after coach).

Craig Anderson was a steal at $1.5M.

Ozzie is what we have. Perhaps it helps have something to play for? Ozzie always did better when there was something or someone in his way and he had to battle for the job. Now, he's #1, and...

Conklin got a shut out last night, by the way.

[Guest lilja4mvp]

for all the talk of losing 90+goals in the offseason, it's the same s*** defense and goaltending from last season that's losing games. big surprise.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Funny. Cause I don't remember you saying this when Osgood took this team to the finals two years in a row. It's also funny that you are comparing a $6,875,000 goalie and a $6,000,000 goalie to a $1.4 million dollar goalie.

See, I know you never heard of this. But there is this little thing called "salary cap". You may want to look it up, because obviously have no clue about anything in the NHL. To help you, I am supplying you a link for you to read. You really should read this so you don't continue looking like a big fool on here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary_cap -- Be sure to click "salary cap in the NHL".

You really should do more reading and less posting.

Overreact much?

[BlueMonk 102]

I'm not too worried right now. The standings in the NHL are laughably skewed towards the s***ty and mediocre teams from last season. Everything will settle down in time. The whole league is having a weird 2 weeks.

As annoying as the loss yesterday was, this is where I sit right now, too. Opening the season with the schedule they've had and the farce in Sweden makes it difficult to take too much from these early games. If the team is still struggling after 20 games I'll begin to take it seriously.

I will say this, though: Osgood can't be an .880 save percentage guy again this season if the Red Wings want to get home ice in the first round of the playoffs. This team isn't as deep as it was last year and it won't be able to survive bad goaltending through the 82 game grind again. Ty Conklin isn't here to pick up the slack and Jimmy Howard hasn't proven that he can be an NHL goalie yet, so Ozzie needs to be better.

[The Mule 0]

Positives:

+ Abby notched his first goal, while Helm recorded his first point.

+ Flip and Bert continued their strong play, with both netting a goal.

+ Willy showed us that he will make for a reliable first shooter in the shootout.

+ The penalty kill remained perfect for the second straight game.

[puckloo39 5,686]

I will say this, though: Osgood can't be an .880 save percentage guy again this season if the Red Wings want to get home ice in the first round of the playoffs. This team isn't as deep as it was last year and it won't be able to survive bad goaltending through the 82 game grind again.

Ty Conklin isn't here to pick up the slack and Jimmy Howard hasn't proven that he can be an NHL goalie yet, so Ozzie needs to be better.

Sure, he can. What's frustrating is that we all know he can play better.

Yep to the last sentence.

[Electrophile 3,554]

Disappointed to see we lost this game. I was surely hoping that both my teams would pull out victories. Ironically enough, both final scores are the same, but not the outcomes.

Oh well, get 'em next time.