A History Lesson

[gcom007 1,465]

Here is a wonderful perspective check for the flippant (so-called) fans here at LGW.com...

Courtesy of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995%E2%80%93...ed_Wings_season

October

# Date Visitor Score Home OT Record Pts

1 October 6 Detroit 2 – 3 Colorado 0–1–0 0

2 October 8 Detroit 3 – 1 Edmonton 1–1–0 2

3 October 9 Detroit 5 – 3 Vancouver 2–1–0 4

4 October 13 Edmonton 0 – 9 Detroit 3–1–0 6

5 October 15 Detroit 5 – 5 Winnipeg * 3–1–1 7

6 October 17 Calgary 3 – 3 Detroit * 3–1–2 8

7 October 19 Detroit 2 – 4 New Jersey 3–2–2 8

8 October 21 Boston 2 – 4 Detroit 4–2–2 10

9 October 24 Ottawa 2 – 1 Detroit 4–3–2 10

10 October 27 Detroit 3 – 0 Calgary 5–3–2 12

11 October 30 Detroit 2 – 3 Winnipeg 5–4–2 12

November

# Date Visitor Score Home OT Record Pts

12 November 1 Detroit 1 – 2 Buffalo 5–5–2 12

5-5-2, 12 points, a .500 record in November.

By the end...

82 April 14 Detroit 5 – 1 Dallas 62–13–7 131

[Guest lilja4mvp]

thanks for clearing that up. another 62 win season confirmed.

[Carman 387]

I don't get your point? That was a long time ago, when we actually had a load of talent on the team(probably on of the best defenses in the modern era) and a capable young goaltender. Now we have a streaky goalie who has been awful the past two regular season with a unproven back up, lost our leading scorer for most of the year, have shown no signs of improving defensively.

[dat's sick 1,002]

Comparisons to that season would be more appropriate if we still had a healthy Franzen. With him (and Lilja) out, it's going to be a struggle this year. Panic is not necessary, but it would be an amazing feat if the Wings were to get 50+ wins this year.

But I agree that people need to calm down and stop calling for every other player to be traded and coaches fired and whatnot.

[gcom007 1,465]

I'm not inferring that we're bound to have another epic, record-setting regular season. It's a tougher league and we're not as good this year as we've been in the past. However, the bottom line is that all too often, October doesn't mean s***. If it was '95/'96 you can bet that LGW's would be flipping a s*** if it existed just like it is this year. The reality is, it's all for naught by the time things really shake down.

People need to relax and lay off the panic.

[b.shanafan14 733]

I appreciate all these "relax, look at history" threads that keep popping up, but history has no bearing on the present.

We're not doomed, but we're not in great shape either. All we can do is hope they get it all together soon.

[hooon 1,089]

How about creating a post for the wings fans who can't count.... and make duplicate threads.

[Chunkylover 26]

That's a difficult set of numbers to look at. At first I had no idea what I was being reminded of. What's discouraging is that the Wings have looked good in all their wins and for the majority of two of their most recent losses. I feel that if the playoffs started today, and the Wings were actually in it, they'd be a tough team to beat no matter who they played. I really trust their ability to play good in the big games. Right now though, it's like they know what to do, but just don't want to.

Even without the historical context, it's foolish to panic anyway. No amount of worry on a fan-site is going to urge the team to success. If I had my way the Wings would never lose, but if they were to miss the playoffs this season, they'll be more rested and hungry next season.

[stevkrause 1,247]

people REALLY do need to relax... McCrimmon should be canned, but not based on our slow start - based on the last 1 1/2 years of poor team defense and we need to figure out some D issues with Lilja on the IR, but we lost a key defensemen and a VERY key forward to injury - that will affect ANY team... chill people, the ship will be righted

[gcom007 1,465]

I appreciate all these "relax, look at history" threads that keep popping up, but history has no bearing on the present.

We're not doomed, but we're not in great shape either. All we can do is hope they get it all together soon.

History may not have bearing on the literal play of the Wings, but it absolutely should have bearing on the fans perspective. It's not the Wings that need to worry about it. They've got it down and they'll be fine.

I'm not concerned about them now mostly because I know that it makes no sense to get too caught up in judging them based on the regular season in general, let alone October. I learn this from paying mind to and respecting history.

You're fighting an uphill battle when you suggest that history has no bearing on the present. A lot of people love to suggest that lately in our hype-driven, knee-jerk culture. Once again, in the context of HISTORY, it's quite obvious that it's an idea hung on to mostly by those ignorant of history who are too lazy to actually put in the critical thought and research that those with more rational, objective opinions have. Sorry. I'm not trying to be an ass, but that's just the honest truth.

[gcom007 1,465]

people REALLY do need to relax... McCrimmon should be canned, but not based on our slow start - based on the last 1 1/2 years of poor team defense and we need to figure out some D issues with Lilja on the IR, but we lost a key defensemen and a VERY key forward to injury - that will affect ANY team... chill people, the ship will be righted

This is worth questioning if you ask me. It very much feels as if this team has struggled defensively since he came on board. It hurts not having Lilja, but we still should not be near as bad defensively as we have become with the crew we have. Even if he's done everything right, you've got to wonder when they might just decide to shake things up a bit simply in order to try and get the message across in a new way.

[jerm8352 3]

Did we win the cup that year? No, so no one cares. Cups are what matters. No one remembers the 96 wings except detroit fans. Everyone remembers the 97, 98, 02, and 08 teams.

[gcom007 1,465]

That's a difficult set of numbers to look at. At first I had no idea what I was being reminded of. What's discouraging is that the Wings have looked good in all their wins and for the majority of two of their most recent losses. I feel that if the playoffs started today, and the Wings were actually in it, they'd be a tough team to beat no matter who they played. I really trust their ability to play good in the big games. Right now though, it's like they know what to do, but just don't want to.

Even without the historical context, it's foolish to panic anyway. No amount of worry on a fan-site is going to urge the team to success. If I had my way the Wings would never lose, but if they were to miss the playoffs this season, they'll be more rested and hungry next season.

Yeah, I agree. I don't think we've looked as bad this year as last in many ways. I don't think Osgood's looked near as bad this year. Sure, we're not scoring as much but it's obvious why that is. I have taken many, many positives away from some of these losses. We're not getting the bounces right now and that happens especially when you're missing key components. We'll iron out some of the little things and our kids will continue to mature and by the end of the season when we ideally have Franzen and Lilja back, we're going to be as good to go as any team heading into the playoffs. I have ZERO doubt of that. Even if Lilja doesn't come back, we'll deal for a defenseman at the deadline to pick up some slack.

We'll be fine.

[Chunkylover 26]

This is worth questioning if you ask me. It very much feels as if this team has struggled defensively since he came on board. It hurts not having Lilja, but we still should not be near as bad defensively as we have become with the crew we have. Even if he's done everything right, you've got to wonder when they might just decide to shake things up a bit simply in order to try and get the message across in a new way.

It makes one wonder if the '08 team didn't just play better than they actually were, kind of exceeded expectations, and now we're seeing what they're really capable of.

With that said, we had only one truly established forward and defense unit in '08. Filppula and Cleary are better. Draper and Maltby are playing well. Helm and Ericsson should be at least adequate replacements for Drake and Lilja. Stuart and Kronwall should be better. So should Osgood.

Instead it seems like our established players got worse. One line can't finish (which is ironic considering they're Finns), and the team seems desperate to ****** defeat from the jaws of victory (especially recently).

[stevkrause 1,247]

It makes one wonder if the '08 team didn't just play better than they actually were, kind of exceeded expectations, and now we're seeing what they're really capable of.

With that said, we had only one truly established forward and defense unit in '08. Filppula and Cleary are better. Draper and Maltby are playing well. Helm and Ericsson should be at least adequate replacements for Drake and Lilja. Stuart and Kronwall should be better. So should Osgood.

Instead it seems like our established players got worse. One line can't finish (which is ironic considering they're Finns), and the team seems desperate to ****** defeat from the jaws of victory (especially recently).

Not one bit, because we were a couple bad injuries on the backed in 07 from going to the finals and probably winning the cup... and if anything, our defense is MUCH better now, than it was then...

07:

Lidstrom-Lilja

Schneider-Kronwall

Lebda-Chelios

and then we proceeded to loose Scneider in the playoffs with the broken wrist

08:

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Lilja-Lebda

[Doc Holiday 0]

Did we win the cup that year? No, so no one cares. Cups are what matters. No one remembers the 96 wings except detroit fans. Everyone remembers the 97, 98, 02, and 08 teams.

Wait, so you mean to tell me regular season play isn't a necessary indicator of postseason success?

BY GEORGE I THINK HE'S GOT THE POINT!

Does anyone forget that Manny Legace was the best goaltender in October of 05? Or the Wings losing 6 straight games in February of 08? Or the Penguins 10th place rank in the conference early in 09?

All it takes is for one little change and the team can do well.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Right now this team looks tired and bored. They know the effort it takes, because the core of them have gone all the way for the last two seasons. I think they have a serious hangover right now, and dealing with the loss of talent through free agency and injuries is adding to that. They are playing terrible hockey right now, but I am convinced they will smarten up sooner or later. I have a feeling this tough stretch ( and i say stretch because I think this will last till mid - november ) will give this team a chip on their shoulder.

My prediction: Wings play just over .500 hockey till around Christmas and pick it up big time down second half, leading up to and after the Olympics. 48-25-9 105pts. 2nd or 4th in the Conference

[Chunkylover 26]

Not one bit, because we were a couple bad injuries on the backed in 07 from going to the finals and probably winning the cup... and if anything, our defense is MUCH better now, than it was then...

I agree, which means that the problem right now isn't that we don't have the right personnel (Franzen aside), but that nobody is really interested in doing the job they're paid to do, which is win regular season games.

[mjlegend 155]

I'm as much an optimist as anyone, but I don't think putting in Franzen and Lilja automatically puts this team in the 62-win area.

The team needs to add something (or remove something, McCrimmon) to help keep/expand a third period lead.

[Buppy 1,720]

Did we win the cup that year? No, so no one cares. Cups are what matters. No one remembers the 96 wings except detroit fans. Everyone remembers the 97, 98, 02, and 08 teams.

Heh, not that it matters, but...

'97 we started 2-4-0, 4-4-0 after 8, finished 38-26-18 (the last time we won fewer than 40 games)

Edited October 23, 2009 by Buppy

[Barrie 900]

Looking at the standings, we're only 3 pts out of first and have a game in hand.

A couple straight wins, and everyone will feel better.

[Vladifan 680]

History may not have bearing on the literal play of the Wings, but it absolutely should have bearing on the fans perspective. It's not the Wings that need to worry about it. They've got it down and they'll be fine.

I'm not concerned about them now mostly because I know that it makes no sense to get too caught up in judging them based on the regular season in general, let alone October. I learn this from paying mind to and respecting history.

You're fighting an uphill battle when you suggest that history has no bearing on the present. A lot of people love to suggest that lately in our hype-driven, knee-jerk culture. Once again, in the context of HISTORY, it's quite obvious that it's an idea hung on to mostly by those ignorant of history who are too lazy to actually put in the critical thought and research that those with more rational, objective opinions have. Sorry. I'm not trying to be an ass, but that's just the honest truth.

I would add to your very thought-provoking premise that our society today is used to having problems resolved at the least, in 30-60 minutes (minus 10 minutes of commercials), and at the most, a four-show series. History and perspective mean very little to people of this generation. That's why we're in the hideous economic and political situation we're in today. Most of us do not choose to learn from what went before.

And whatever it is we want or think we "deserve", we want it yesterday.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Vladifan

[MadMan Mark 0]

My biggest concern with the team this year is their inability to finish a game. How many leads have we lost in the 3rd. Most recently, we were up 2-0 on Col at home with a little more than 10 min to go, lost the lead, regained it, and then gave up another goal ultimately leading to a SO loss. Up by a goal in Phx late in the 3rd, lose in OT.

I told my son last night with about 5 min to go that the Wings need to fore-check more and take the game to Phx instead of sitiing back waiting for the win. All we need is to disrupt the urgency that teams have against us when they are behind. Too often, we let them inthe zone and they just throw the puck at the net.

Time to bury teams when we have them down.

I don't know, but of the 8 games, how many have we been tied or had the lead in the 3rd only to blow it?

[gcom007 1,465]

My biggest concern with the team this year is their inability to finish a game. How many leads have we lost in the 3rd. Most recently, we were up 2-0 on Col at home with a little more than 10 min to go, lost the lead, regained it, and then gave up another goal ultimately leading to a SO loss. Up by a goal in Phx late in the 3rd, lose in OT.

I told my son last night with about 5 min to go that the Wings need to fore-check more and take the game to Phx instead of sitiing back waiting for the win. All we need is to disrupt the urgency that teams have against us when they are behind. Too often, we let them inthe zone and they just throw the puck at the net.

Time to bury teams when we have them down.

I don't know, but of the 8 games, how many have we been tied or had the lead in the 3rd only to blow it?

I think to some extent this has to do with having more youth this year than we're used to plus a lot of new guys coming in. It's going to take this team a bit of time to gel up and mature. We've had years of teams with lots of veterans/HOFer's that didn't rattle so easily in the 3rd in a close game. We don't have that luxury so much this year, but that doesn't mean we have a bad team. The great news is we have plenty of talent to go the distance and a lot of games left in the regular season to refine the talent. You'll see a complete team no-doubt come playoff time.

You can bet your bottom dollar that Holland will strengthen up the D somewhere down the line now that we have more cap room to play with. We'll also get Franzen back which will help immensely with scoring and Osgood is a rock in the playoffs.

Everything that happens between now and then is simply progress. It won't always be pretty, but even the losses count as progress. This team is going to learn a lot more about themselves losing right now and working through these kinks early. And again, I can't even begin to tell you how many positives I've seen thus far this year. I honestly am more excited and confident now than I was over the summer. The concern I had is gone because I've seen a lot of good things happening. There are kinks to work out still especially now that we're down Franzen, but this is a good hockey club. Just relax and give it time.

[Miss Wing Queen 154]

Everything that happens between now and then is simply progress. It won't always be pretty, but even the losses count as progress. This team is going to learn a lot more about themselves losing right now and working through these kinks early. And again, I can't even begin to tell you how many positives I've seen thus far this year. I honestly am more excited and confident now than I was over the summer. The concern I had is gone because I've seen a lot of good things happening. There are kinks to work out still especially now that we're down Franzen, but this is a good hockey club. Just relax and give it time.

I'll admit that I had the worst expectations for this team coming into the season, and after the games in Sweden, my fears were looking more real. But looking at the past and present, I have to say we've been spoiled. For the last so many years, our team has been made up mostly of veteran, experienced players who knew what it took to get to the playoffs and how to work the system of the regular season. A combination of luck with who our players were, the level of skill and experience we had, and what we had to put forth to get to the playoffs came much easier in previous seasons than this one. The team we've had on a pedestal for so long has been taken down a few levels.

It doesn't mean they totally suck or that all hope is lost, it just means we are starting a little closer to average this year than we have in the past. But I agree with gcom007 that we have to look at all of this as a process. In some of our recent losses, I've seen hard work and a strong team shine through. Some losses have been poor play, others (like last night) bad luck, and some a combination of both. These losses now are major learning experiences. Granted, it feels as if they are moving at a snail's pace for improving, but changes are being made. I think we are all tired of hearing "We know what we have to fix, we just have to be better at [insert flaw here] . . ." during ever post-game interview. We were looking for our team to come charging out of the gate this season in order to take away the sting and pain of how last season ended. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

I've settled my fears down and am just trying to enjoy watching this mixed new/old/rookie/veteran team come into its own. Granted, it's not always the easiest thing to do, but it makes me appreciate my team and the strong tradition they've had of carrying high expectations for themselves as a players more. Here's to our team taking more steps forward and less steps back and fleshing out as the team we know they can be.