Nathan Horton...a trade option?

[mmamolo 287]

Horton

I just read this rumour article that Florida may be shopping Nathan Horton. Obviously with Franzen out he may be able to shoulder some of the loss of offence. Obviously it seems our D needs more help than our forwards but we aren't exactly scoring much either. I just wanted to get ppl's thoughts on if this would be advantageous or not.

Also, to point out Detroit hasnt been rumoured to be in trade talks or anything. I just saw Horton may be on the block and thought he may fit in well.

[Zetts 236]

It would be advantageous, yes. But I have no idea what we'd be willing to give up that Florida would want.

[Guest Four]

Bert, Williams, Lebda for Horton?! I can only dream..

[rage 24]

Yeah, they won't trade players they just signed to one-year deals unless they are out of the playoffs.

And everyone else seems to have no-trade clauses, or 10 year contracts.

So, yeah. Draft picks. lol

[XxGoWingsxX 0]

Horton

I just read this rumour article that Florida may be shopping Nathan Horton. Obviously with Franzen out he may be able to shoulder some of the loss of offence. Obviously it seems our D needs more help than our forwards but we aren't exactly scoring much either. I just wanted to get ppl's thoughts on if this would be advantageous or not.

Also, to point out Detroit hasnt been rumoured to be in trade talks or anything. I just saw Horton may be on the block and thought he may fit in well.

While I definitely agree that our D is the part of our game that needs work, I disagree that we aren't scoring much. I mean for the offense we still have left after losing everyone, You can't expect them to score more than 3 goals a game on a consistent basis. The part we're screwing up on is holding a lead. We've scored enough goals to win almost every game, and in quite a few have kept a lead til the end. Our D needs to tighten up and learn to protect that lead because we don't have the offense that we used to, to bail us out anymore.

[DatsyukownzU13 1]

Nathan Horton would be a great pickup for our team, but we would definitely have to give up a blue-chip prospect and some to get him. The only real blue-chip prospect we have at the moment is Jakub Kindl, which I have a hard time believing Ken Holland would give up. The only other big prospect we have is McCollum, but the Panthers already have solid goaltending and Markstrom is on his way up as well. McCollum is certainly not going anywhere with our goaltending woes, either. I don't really see what we have to offer Florida unless they are looking for something that would reap immediate benefits (i.e. Filppula + a prospect/draft pick). That would end up being a pretty lateral move, anyway.

I think he could flourish on our team and he's got a reasonable contract which I think is around 4 mil. I guess the only question with him is his inconsistency with his effort. He's got a ton of potential/talent and he's good for 60ish points and some hits each night, but at times he looks lazy and lost. He's only 24 and we all know what Detroit's management can do for these types of players so it would be worth a shot. It's still early in the season, but if this trend of play continues I think we could definitely need a little mix up with the roster.

Edited October 25, 2009 by DatsyukownzU13

[Rice 42]

I don't think the Wings have the right pieces. The players Florida would be interested in are Filppula, Ericsson, Kindl, and McCollum. I can't see the Wings moving any of them for Horton.

[brett 1,029]

i dont see detroit making any serious trades.. well stick it out and make it work with what we got..but who know norton or frolov would be great to have help us

Edited October 25, 2009 by brett

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Horton

I just read this rumour article that Florida may be shopping Nathan Horton. Obviously with Franzen out he may be able to shoulder some of the loss of offence. Obviously it seems our D needs more help than our forwards but we aren't exactly scoring much either. I just wanted to get ppl's thoughts on if this would be advantageous or not.

Also, to point out Detroit hasnt been rumoured to be in trade talks or anything. I just saw Horton may be on the block and thought he may fit in well.

I'd love to have Horton here-- he could be a star in Detroit.

At this point I don't think our D needs as much help as our offense, though. In the last four games the D has been really strong, while the offense has been anemic. Clearly this is a tiny sample size, but if we're talking about addressing one concern I'd say it'd be to get a stud top 6 guy who can be the #3 forward on this club. Right now the drop off between the second best and third best guy is way too big.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

While I definitely agree that our D is the part of our game that needs work, I disagree that we aren't scoring much. I mean for the offense we still have left after losing everyone, You can't expect them to score more than 3 goals a game on a consistent basis. The part we're screwing up on is holding a lead. We've scored enough goals to win almost every game, and in quite a few have kept a lead til the end. Our D needs to tighten up and learn to protect that lead because we don't have the offense that we used to, to bail us out anymore.

Those two statements conflict with each other.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Nathan Horton would be a great pickup for our team, but we would definitely have to give up a blue-chip prospect and some to get him. The only real blue-chip prospect we have at the moment is Jakub Kindl, which I have a hard time believing Ken Holland would give up. The only other big prospect we have is McCollum, but the Panthers already have solid goaltending and Markstrom is on his way up as well. McCollum is certainly not going anywhere with our goaltending woes, either. I don't really see what we have to offer Florida unless they are looking for something that would reap immediate benefits (i.e. Filppula + a prospect/draft pick). That would end up being a pretty lateral move, anyway.

I think he could flourish on our team and he's got a reasonable contract which I think is around 4 mil. I guess the only question with him is his inconsistency with his effort. He's got a ton of potential/talent and he's good for 60ish points and some hits each night, but at times he looks lazy and lost. He's only 24 and we all know what Detroit's management can do for these types of players so it would be worth a shot. It's still early in the season, but if this trend of play continues I think we could definitely need a little mix up with the roster.

Dude-- I'd give Kindl up for Horton in a heart-beat. Kindl's out of AHL options at the end of this year and he is no where near ready to make the jump to the NHL on this team. He still struggles defensively in the AHL... that translates to serious NHL defensive woes.

I'm not saying they should give up on Kindl, but if they get a chance to trade him for a kid of nearly the same age who is already successful in the NHL... why not? Kindl's not looking like Lidstrom's heir, despite their hope that he would be.

[Reilly 24]

You'd have to assume whatever Detroit offers another team could make a better one. I'd just bite the bullet this season, keep the draft picks, keep the young players and see what happens.

[BruiseBrother 2]

He's not going to help our goaltending.

[cjm502 165]

He's not going to help our goaltending.

Goaltending is not the problem right now. Right now we need our best players to be our best players, which their not right now. Also, our 3rd defensive pairing is not performing enough to keep us on top. Ericsson does not mesh with Meech and Lebda at all, Lilja is the type of player he needs to be with. Ozzy and Howard have been pretty solid and have given us our chances, but we have not capitalized.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

I'd love to have Horton here-- he could be a star in Detroit.

At this point I don't think our D needs as much help as our offense, though. In the last four games the D has been really strong, while the offense has been anemic. Clearly this is a tiny sample size, but if we're talking about addressing one concern I'd say it'd be to get a stud top 6 guy who can be the #3 forward on this club. Right now the drop off between the second best and third best guy is way too big.

At first, I was going to say that I disagreed, but by the time I reached the end of my post, I realized we were arguing for the same side. This team has some pretty strong second-tier players; Filppula, Leino and Cleary I think all qualify for that status, with Franzen representing the in-betweener, somewhere between Pav and Z and Flip, Leino and Cleary. With him gone, we could certainly use someone who can provide 30+ goals, something I think Nathan Horton could do quite well. As said before though, this team hasn't got a great many assets to give up in exchange. Our roster's got a lot of one-year deals on it now for players who other teams aren't going to be particularly interested in; Florida doesn't want Bertuzzi, Williams, etc.

I'd love to see Horton here but I don't think it's realistic.

[StormJH1 231]

Love Nathan Horton from a size and production standpoint, but I don't know enough about him personally to know if his work ethic/personality fits the "Detroit mold". I know that sounds cliched but you can ask Igor Grigorenko, Uwe Krupp and other former/would-be Wings how that works.

I would also trade Kindl for him, but I have no idea what kind of value a guy like Kindl has league-wide. Doesn't hurt that he comes from the Wings' system, which is perceived as "over-riping" players and producing homegrown talent despite low draft position and trading away top picks for years.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

At first, I was going to say that I disagreed, but by the time I reached the end of my post, I realized we were arguing for the same side. This team has some pretty strong second-tier players; Filppula, Leino and Cleary I think all qualify for that status, with Franzen representing the in-betweener, somewhere between Pav and Z and Flip, Leino and Cleary. With him gone, we could certainly use someone who can provide 30+ goals, something I think Nathan Horton could do quite well. As said before though, this team hasn't got a great many assets to give up in exchange. Our roster's got a lot of one-year deals on it now for players who other teams aren't going to be particularly interested in; Florida doesn't want Bertuzzi, Williams, etc.

I'd love to see Horton here but I don't think it's realistic.

Exactly. Franzen was so key because he had that 1st tier game breaking ability some nights, but he didn't put up 1st tier regular season numbers so he cost a hair under 4 million to keep. Another important point is that Franzen is really key when Dats and Z are cold (as in a combined 1 goal in 9 games ).

Given the scores in the last few losses and the relative contributions of Dats and Z it's apparent that the Wings can turn things around right away if Dats or Z just get back to their usual offensive production. Still, in an 82 game season we'll need more than two guys who can do that.

The other option is Frolov, but LA won't make a move until they know where they stand-- in other words Franzen will likely be back by the time Frolov is on the block.

Is there anyone in Tampa we could use? They've got more payroll than they usually like to carry and the rumour is that management wants to cut back on payroll because of slow ticket sales.

Malone could be good, but he's overpaid...

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Love Nathan Horton from a size and production standpoint, but I don't know enough about him personally to know if his work ethic/personality fits the "Detroit mold". I know that sounds cliched but you can ask Igor Grigorenko, Uwe Krupp and other former/would-be Wings how that works.

I would also trade Kindl for him, but I have no idea what kind of value a guy like Kindl has league-wide. Doesn't hurt that he comes from the Wings' system, which is perceived as "over-riping" players and producing homegrown talent despite low draft position and trading away top picks for years.

Grigorenko's problem was he almost died due to complications related to a car accident that also destroyed one of his legs. After that he was a different player... One could argue that part of his motivation issues was owing to that.

[Viking_Erection 1]

We'd likely have to give up more than most here would be willing to do. Helm, Abby, maybe Kindl and picks. That means Eaves and May would get a full time roster spot.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Dude-- I'd give Kindl up for Horton in a heart-beat. Kindl's out of AHL options at the end of this year and he is no where near ready to make the jump to the NHL on this team. He still struggles defensively in the AHL... that translates to serious NHL defensive woes.

I'm not saying they should give up on Kindl, but if they get a chance to trade him for a kid of nearly the same age who is already successful in the NHL... why not? Kindl's not looking like Lidstrom's heir, despite their hope that he would be.

What have you seen/heard that has led to you believe he's been struggling this season? From all reports he's looked quite good and now that Delmore is out he's putting up the points too.

I'd love Horton though, a lot question his attitude and he's often said to be very lazy but Florida don't exactly have the best and most inspiring team...

[Drake_Marcus 890]

What have you seen/heard that has led to you believe he's been struggling this season? From all reports he's looked quite good and now that Delmore is out he's putting up the points too.

I'd love Horton though, a lot question his attitude and he's often said to be very lazy but Florida don't exactly have the best and most inspiring team...

Kindl's got 3 assists in 7 games (two of which came tonight, so I was more astute when I first posted it) so far. He's a -3 too. It's not that I've written him off, it's just that Horton is a 3rd overall pick who's 24 years old. In the NHL he's scored: 14, 28, 31, 27, and 22 goals in each season of his career. His points situation is: 22, 47, 62, 62, and 45, so he's no slouch in any department really. The thing is he did all that on the Panthers as a winger. Give him a capable centre and I'm sure his numbers could be even better. Over his career he's a 0.66 ppg player, so that's impressive enough for a young guy.

Kindl's only two years younger than Horton, so it's not like we'd be gambling much in terms of age. The only problem is Horton makes 4 million a year... That only makes sense to the Wings when Franzen is out since they make essentially the same .

Horton's 6'2" 229lbs and shoots right... I think he could step in and fill Franzen's place here. Then again, it'd be a s***-show once Franzen is back.

I do like Kindl and think he has lots of potential, I just don't like that he has to hit the NHL next season and he's not even close to being ready

EDIT: If anything, the fact that I think you could get a guy like Horton for Kindl speaks to how good Kindl can be. If they shop Kindl I think they could get someone better than Horton if they really look for it. Some sort of package involving Kindl for Halak would be sweet too.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Drake_Marcus

[Wings_Toledo 233]

Honestly I think the Wings just need to find a 6th defenseman to replace Lilja (I really don't see him coming back anytime soon, if ever). And I'm talking about one who plays the same style as Lilja, not another Meech or Lebda. Do that and get a decent backup goaltender so Ozzie doesn't have to play so many games and those slight improvements may start to turn things around.

Surely it's not that simple, but that's what makes the most sense to me.

[Viking_Erection 1]

EDIT: If anything, the fact that I think you could get a guy like Horton for Kindl speaks to how good Kindl can be. If they shop Kindl I think they could get someone better than Horton if they really look for it. Some sort of package involving Kindl for Halak would be sweet too.

You think Kindl currently holds that kind of value?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Honestly I think the Wings just need to find a 6th defenseman to replace Lilja (I really don't see him coming back anytime soon, if ever). And I'm talking about one who plays the same style as Lilja, not another Meech or Lebda. Do that and get a decent backup goaltender so Ozzie doesn't have to play so many games and those slight improvements may start to turn things around.

Surely it's not that simple, but that's what makes the most sense to me.

Howard's had two games this season. One was bad one was very good. I think we owe him some more shots at the pot.

f*** the people who say "blah blah blah hasn't won since 05 blah blah blah". He lost two games during the 07-08 February s*** show when Lebda was the #1 d-man due to injuries. And in one of those games he was one of the 3 stars.

Howard's on the knife's edge right now, yeah, but he's not irredeemably terrible or a worthless commodity. He's still very talented, he just has to put it all together (that's been his story for 5 years now). I do think he'll be out the door or at least in the 3rd spot if he doesn't show something impressive by the time January is over.

As far as the 6th d-man goes I agree with you 100%