Future in net currently residing in Grand Rapids

[Rivalred 630]

Both of em look good. Howard is donezo if he goes not get his stuff together here very soon. When the playoffs come around and the Wings are somewhat in the race, I could easily see the Wings acquiring another net-minder if Howard has not cemented in.

[Dimaline312000 51]

I could be wrong but I think his contract runs out at seasons end.

That's what I thought but I wasn't sure so I had to ask. Thanks for the help.

[albo23 10]

On paper McCollum is the guy. 6'2" - 205lbs - 1st round pick

Larsson is 6' - 180 lb - 3 round pick.

But anything can happen.

I like both of them for different reasons.

The greatest goaltender ever was 5 ft 11 in and 165 lb. I may be a homer, but your call.

[Dimaline312000 51]

My next question is if Larsson has to come up next season and Ozzie doesn't retire what will happen? Wings can't have 3 goalies up unless one is scratched if I'm correct. So does this mean that the Wings will draft another goalie in the 10 Draft? Seeing as McCollum may be the only one in GR next season unless we signe a FA goalie. Forgive me if I don't make sence but I've got a little Captain in ME.

[Seraph 240]

I think at least one of those two should be "rushed" in development. I think Howard was in the system too long. I admire the Wings' patience, but I think Larsson should be given a shot before he gets too old to learn new tricks, so to speak. Like someone mentioned, Larsson wouldn't be worse than Howard and Ozzie right now, but he might be better, and it's worth a look. Having him play a few games won't hurt his development any.

Yeah, to me it feels like Howard was held in GR for too long. The way he plays sometimes shows that he's gotten some bad habbits incorporated into his game that won't cut it at the NHL level. In the minors, you can get away with some sloppy play and I doubt getting used to that helps when moving up to a higher intensity league.

The other night he was flying all over the place, completely out of position against Edmonton. Made me feel really uncomfortable.

[Doggy 130]

My next question is if Larsson has to come up next season and Ozzie doesn't retire what will happen? Wings can't have 3 goalies up unless one is scratched if I'm correct. So does this mean that the Wings will draft another goalie in the 10 Draft? Seeing as McCollum may be the only one in GR next season unless we signe a FA goalie. Forgive me if I don't make sence but I've got a little Captain in ME.

The Griffins or Wings will just find sign a goalie or call one up from Toledo.

However, unless Larsson shows something special, given the fact he is still waiver exempt, he'll probably spend almost all of next season in GR also. I believe he's exempt from waivers until he's 26 or played 60 NHL games.

[Stiffy 0]

Yeah, to me it feels like Howard was held in GR for too long. The way he plays sometimes shows that he's gotten some bad habbits incorporated into his game that won't cut it at the NHL level. In the minors, you can get away with some sloppy play and I doubt getting used to that helps when moving up to a higher intensity league.

The other night he was flying all over the place, completely out of position against Edmonton. Made me feel really uncomfortable.

That's really interesting. Though I am no expert on preparing a goalie for the NHL, the idea that he needed sooooo much time in GR did not make sense to me. There are plenty of young goalies who come out and make it and plenty of others who don't. Maybe the answer is as simple as "either you got it or you don't" and no amount of experience will make a difference in the final equation. However, this kid was picked for a reason and played very well at the college level. So, do you think there is a way to "un train" him and reinforce better habits/style?

[Finnish Wing 110]

That's really interesting. Though I am no expert on preparing a goalie for the NHL, the idea that he needed sooooo much time in GR did not make sense to me. There are plenty of young goalies who come out and make it and plenty of others who don't. Maybe the answer is as simple as "either you got it or you don't" and no amount of experience will make a difference in the final equation. However, this kid was picked for a reason and played very well at the college level. So, do you think there is a way to "un train" him and reinforce better habits/style?

I totally disagree. There are tons of examples against that. Finnish goalies Pekka Rinne and Niklas Backstrom haven't always "got it". Backstrom took a step from being one of the best goalies in the Finnish league to being one of the best goalies in the NHL when he was no kid anymore.

Who knows if something snaps in Howard's head and he suddenly becomes a good NHL goalie. Small things in your head are big things on the ice.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

The Griffins or Wings will just find sign a goalie or call one up from Toledo.

However, unless Larsson shows something special, given the fact he is still waiver exempt, he'll probably spend almost all of next season in GR also. I believe he's exempt from waivers until he's 26 or played 60 NHL games.

Jordan Pearce...

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I definitely like what both these kids bring to the table, but everyone needs to keep in mind how raw these two are yet. There's a great chance one or both will be on the big club in the future, but an immediate call-up if Oz and Howard struggle really isn't the answer. Let the kids atleast have somewhat of a chance to polish their games before they're thrown into one of the most difficult positions in Detroit sports.

for some reason that reminded me of the player who got knocked out and forgot who he was, so the coach said "tell him he's wayne gretzky".

I vaguely remember hearing that quote. Good Stuff.

[OsGOD 3]

i am a big McCollum fan.... watched him tiressly in the "O"

[sliverck 3]

19 is way too young to bring up a goalie. Just ask Marc-Andre Fleury, not like he's won a Stanley Cup or anything. We all know the Wings can't bring up a goalie until they are at least 24 years old and have been ruined by playing too long in the minors.

[djohns74 3]

19 is way too young to bring up a goalie. Just ask Marc-Andre Fleury, not like he's won a Stanley Cup or anything.

True, even 20 is still too young to be playing in the NHL, just look at Steve Mason. All he was able to do was carry a mediocre team to their first playoff appearance, win the Calder trophy, finish second in the Vezina voting and fourth in the Hart voting.

Edited November 2, 2009 by djohns74

[Doggy 130]

I'm not tryin to bash Tom McCollum but it might be a little premature to compare him to Fleury or Mason.

Players like that I would consider more like exceptions to the rule. Further to that, they're were brought into teams that didn't have Cup-winning goaltending.

Fleury was brought up because the situation (particularly in goal) in Pittsburgh was horrible so having a kid let 3-7 goals every game didn't matter. BTW that's exactly what he did -- I watched MAF with great interest that season.

Mason was brought up because he'd been outstanding as a junior and Columbus had injuries in net.

[stevkrause 1,247]

True, even 20 is still too young to be playing in the NHL, just look at Steve Mason. All he was able to do was carry a mediocre team to their first playoff appearance, win the Calder trophy, finish second in the Vezina voting and fourth in the Hart voting.

there's also the case and argument for every Mason (who could still fall apart within the next year or 2) that there are several players who's development is rushed and they are ruined...

[sliverck 3]

Fleury was brought up because the situation (particularly in goal) in Pittsburgh was horrible so having a kid let 3-7 goals every game didn't matter. BTW that's exactly what he did -- I watched MAF with great interest that season.

Fleury had a 3.64 GAA in that span, not far from Howard's current 3.42. Problem is Howard is 25 and should have had a couple quality NHL years under his belt already, not decaying in Grand Rapids. The Wings seem to be too afraid to really give a young goalie a shot, it contradicts trying to go after a Stanley Cup every year. They needed to either suck it up and give Howard more starts over the past few years or just trade him and Larsson and kept Conklin or go out and get a good experienced starter and hope McCollum will be ready when the Wings don't have such high Stanley Cup hopes.

[Doggy 130]

Fleury had a 3.64 GAA in that span, not far from Howard's current 3.42. Problem is Howard is 25 and should have had a couple quality NHL years under his belt already, not decaying in Grand Rapids. The Wings seem to be too afraid to really give a young goalie a shot, it contradicts trying to go after a Stanley Cup every year. They needed to either suck it up and give Howard more starts over the past few years or just trade him and Larsson and kept Conklin or go out and get a good experienced starter and hope McCollum will be ready when the Wings don't have such high Stanley Cup hopes.

I'd rather go for the Cup than help an indiviual develop at the expense of team success. If Howard had progressed in any way, shape or form in GR -- he would've been Ozzie's backup last year. But he forced Holland to make a move to ensure the Wings remained competitive.

I guess for me, the question becomes -- why does Jimmy Howard seem to have this birthright where he doesn't need to earn a roster spot like everyone else?

[up2here 41]

McCollum's play at the WJHC last year concerns me and makes me think he isnt near ready. He was bad and Canada made him their *****.

[djohns74 3]

Clearly, it's silly to compare a goalie with zero NHL experience with either Fleury or Mason (or any other NHL netminder), I don't think an honest comparison was intended in either case.

It's funny though, you always hear about young players being brought in too early and getting ruined that way (see: Lions quarterbacks) but then you also hear about players being left in the minors too long and getting ruined THAT way. It's all 20/20 hindsight, it's so hard to tell how either kind of treatment will affect an individual.

[sliverck 3]

I'd rather go for the Cup than help an indiviual develop at the expense of team success. If Howard had progressed in any way, shape or form in GR -- he would've been Ozzie's backup last year. But he forced Holland to make a move to ensure the Wings remained competitive.

I guess for me, the question becomes -- why does Jimmy Howard seem to have this birthright where he doesn't need to earn a roster spot like everyone else?

I don't understand how Howard was supposed to progress in Grand Rapids, the team down there wasn't great and his numbers were decent and I believe a little better than Larsson's. The problem is the Wings were telling Howard he was their goalie of the future for so long he probably believes it, and not bringing him up last year probably shattered whatever confidence he had left. Now he has all this pressure on him to be Osgood's backup and he just doesn't look ready for it, he looks shaky and he has rebound control issues. Things he needed more NHL time to work on, add all that to a Red Wings team playing questionable defense and it doesn't look good.

[Doggy 130]

I don't understand how Howard was supposed to progress in Grand Rapids.

Probably the same way 90% of all the other NHL goalies did.

[Guest Four]

Probably the same way 90% of all the other NHL goalies did.

ROFL

[34Legace34 0]

McCollum's play at the WJHC last year concerns me and makes me think he isnt near ready. He was bad and Canada made him their *****.

I got to see McCollum play a few times in the OHL, he was VERY good at the junior level... his numbers show that. But he has performances in big games that make you wonder. Example #1... blowing a 3-0 lead against Canada.

#2

the loss to Slovakia in the quarter final in the same tournament.

#3

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2009...p-bra-wind.html

Holland, Draper, Yzerman, and a few others came to Windsor that night to watch McCollum, and the Spits shelled him.

I still believe he can get himself into a #1 role here, but his track record in games that matter has to make the organization a little uneasy.

[clutchngrab 12]

Clearly, it's silly to compare a goalie with zero NHL experience with either Fleury or Mason (or any other NHL netminder), I don't think an honest comparison was intended in either case.

It's funny though, you always hear about young players being brought in too early and getting ruined that way (see: Lions quarterbacks) but then you also hear about players being left in the minors too long and getting ruined THAT way. It's all 20/20 hindsight, it's so hard to tell how either kind of treatment will affect an individual.

When it comes to goalies I say burn thru 'em like cord wood. The reason being that so very few of them are on top of their game for more that a 3 - 5 years or so. Goalies are notoriously streaky, and there is not a one I would give more than a 5 year contract ever.

[clutchngrab 12]

I don't understand how Howard was supposed to progress in Grand Rapids, the team down there wasn't great and his numbers were decent and I believe a little better than Larsson's. The problem is the Wings were telling Howard he was their goalie of the future for so long he probably believes it, and not bringing him up last year probably shattered whatever confidence he had left. Now he has all this pressure on him to be Osgood's backup and he just doesn't look ready for it, he looks shaky and he has rebound control issues. Things he needed more NHL time to work on, add all that to a Red Wings team playing questionable defense and it doesn't look good.

Yes, he does have rebound issues as opposed to Osgood who usually doesn't have to worry about the puck hitting him.