Dead Puck Era has Returned- New NHL Exposed As BS.

[ltgator333 3]

I agree with the sentiment, but I do not agree with the cause.

How many times in an average game do you see almost-icings get waived off? DRW do it a LOT, and I hate to call them on it but every time a defenseman has to skate from the opposite side of the red line to collect the puck lazily moving along somewhere around his own faceoff circles is an opportunity for me to yawn. I regret not saying this in another thread a few weeks ago- with no-touch icing they don't waive it off generally. Watch some college hockey and you'll see what I mean.

Another thing is apparently it takes half the defensemen in the league 6 to 8 feet of side to side space on the ice to turn around. It's a gray area, and if the opposing forward pushes him aside it's asking for a penalty. It's garbage, and anything short of the offending defenseman getting pushed onto his can should just be let go.

The trapezoid- enough said. Either you want goalies in front of the cage at all times, or their half of the ice is fair game. The latter is how it's always been before and I'll take it.

Lastly, I also don't really like throwing goalies under the bus because they have a very, very difficult job, but the rules that limited the size of goalie's equipment were about not effective for $hit. Our own Jimmy Howard, hockey Gods bless him, is sitting in about 5th-ish in save percentage with a freakin' 92.7%. Fifteen years ago, in the latter stages of the golden age of the NHL, that would've been Vezina consideration numbers. Are goalies now just THAT good? No, they're not. They've gotten bigger, and their equipment, irregardless of size is very effective and very well researched. Anything shy of a rocket shot can be smothered relatively easily and it's no coincidence. The shape of the pads is also no coincidence. And our own Jimmy, at about 6' tall is getting to be on the smallish side. These days Ozzy fits well into the 'small goalie' category unquestionably.

Now there's nothing wrong with any of this, but the size of the net was designed with a goaltender more along Ozzy's size, with not nearly the pad technology that he or any other modern goalie has at their disposal. I hate to say "OMGZ MAKE THE NETS BIGGER", but what else are you going to do? Goalies have grown, maybe it's time the net does.

And if you're going to think of that, you have to consider the size and athleticism of the average NHLer compared to even 15 years ago. Long gone are the days when guys can get into shape at training camp. Long gone are the days when a defenseman @ 6'-2" 200-210lbs is considered a big guy. These guys are in very, very good shape and skate with much more skill and speed than they ever have. And a legitimate big guy in today's league is 6'4" 220 minimum.

Make the ice bigger. Before you go all conservative on me- they used to be bigger (and smaller) back when. They didn't all used to be the same size back when either- I for one don't mind that idea either.

That's my take, disagree/fine tune/elaborate/prove me wrong.

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

I agree with the sentiment, but I do not agree with the cause.

How many times in an average game do you see almost-icings get waived off? DRW do it a LOT, and I hate to call them on it but every time a defenseman has to skate from the opposite side of the red line to collect the puck lazily moving along somewhere around his own faceoff circles is an opportunity for me to yawn. I regret not saying this in another thread a few weeks ago- with no-touch icing they don't waive it off generally. Watch some college hockey and you'll see what I mean.

Another thing is apparently it takes half the defensemen in the league 6 to 8 feet of side to side space on the ice to turn around. It's a gray area, and if the opposing forward pushes him aside it's asking for a penalty. It's garbage, and anything short of the offending defenseman getting pushed onto his can should just be let go.

The trapezoid- enough said. Either you want goalies in front of the cage at all times, or their half of the ice is fair game. The latter is how it's always been before and I'll take it.

Lastly, I also don't really like throwing goalies under the bus because they have a very, very difficult job, but the rules that limited the size of goalie's equipment were about not effective for $hit. Our own Jimmy Howard, hockey Gods bless him, is sitting in about 5th-ish in save percentage with a freakin' 92.7%. Fifteen years ago, in the latter stages of the golden age of the NHL, that would've been Vezina consideration numbers. Are goalies now just THAT good? No, they're not. They've gotten bigger, and their equipment, irregardless of size is very effective and very well researched. Anything shy of a rocket shot can be smothered relatively easily and it's no coincidence. The shape of the pads is also no coincidence. And our own Jimmy, at about 6' tall is getting to be on the smallish side. These days Ozzy fits well into the 'small goalie' category unquestionably.

Now there's nothing wrong with any of this, but the size of the net was designed with a goaltender more along Ozzy's size, with not nearly the pad technology that he or any other modern goalie has at their disposal. I hate to say "OMGZ MAKE THE NETS BIGGER", but what else are you going to do? Goalies have grown, maybe it's time the net does.

And if you're going to think of that, you have to consider the size and athleticism of the average NHLer compared to even 15 years ago. Long gone are the days when guys can get into shape at training camp. Long gone are the days when a defenseman @ 6'-2" 200-210lbs is considered a big guy. These guys are in very, very good shape and skate with much more skill and speed than they ever have. And a legitimate big guy in today's league is 6'4" 220 minimum.

Make the ice bigger. Before you go all conservative on me- they used to be bigger (and smaller) back when. They didn't all used to be the same size back when either- I for one don't mind that idea either.

That's my take, disagree/fine tune/elaborate/prove me wrong.

I have to agree with the size of the players in general. I noticed this especially after watching the Toronto vs. Detroit clip posted above. The goalies and their equipment look tiny and the players all seem to be in roughly the same size range. One thing I noticed as well is how open the ice looks in the clip, guys could skate all over the place with out being touched. Granted there was a little clutching and interference with players not near the puck (which I don't mind), but the game seemed more open with the hitting and rough housing that a lot of people love.

[Guest micah]

IMHO the league needs to have automatic icing, rid the players equipment of hard plastic in both shoulder/elbow pads, and to remove the instigator penalty.

Right on all three counts.

1) Automatic icing should have been made the rule 20 years ago.

2) Plastic blongs in helmets and skates, not shoulder pads. Pads should be, you know, pads. If you want to play without them, great. If you want a lot of padding, great. Elbows and shoulders should be softened, not armoured. Hard pads reduce pain when hitting, but they do not reduce injury to the hitter (or faller) and they do (I belive) increase injury to the guy being hit. Hitting someone should hurt.

I'm flashing back to Marty McSorely. Dude played a full, tough game, and for many years did not not wear any shoulder pads at all, he only wore the fiber cups, having removed all the foam. Tough guy, that Marty. I like the pads Cheli and Shanny were wearing when they retired too. If 78 year old Chelios doesn't need hard plastic, neither does Johnny Wetbehindtheears fresh out of the SEL.

3) the instigator penalty serves only to make it more difficult for teams to answer cheapshots and protect their star players. There was never a problem in the NHL with goons going after skilled players. There is currently a problem with guys like Avery and Downie playing bigger than they are. I'd like to see that nipped in the bud, Dave Brown style.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

I agree with the sentiment, but I do not agree with the cause.

How many times in an average game do you see almost-icings get waived off? DRW do it a LOT, and I hate to call them on it but every time a defenseman has to skate from the opposite side of the red line to collect the puck lazily moving along somewhere around his own faceoff circles is an opportunity for me to yawn. I regret not saying this in another thread a few weeks ago- with no-touch icing they don't waive it off generally. Watch some college hockey and you'll see what I mean.

Another thing is apparently it takes half the defensemen in the league 6 to 8 feet of side to side space on the ice to turn around. It's a gray area, and if the opposing forward pushes him aside it's asking for a penalty. It's garbage, and anything short of the offending defenseman getting pushed onto his can should just be let go.

The trapezoid- enough said. Either you want goalies in front of the cage at all times, or their half of the ice is fair game. The latter is how it's always been before and I'll take it.

Lastly, I also don't really like throwing goalies under the bus because they have a very, very difficult job, but the rules that limited the size of goalie's equipment were about not effective for $hit. Our own Jimmy Howard, hockey Gods bless him, is sitting in about 5th-ish in save percentage with a freakin' 92.7%. Fifteen years ago, in the latter stages of the golden age of the NHL, that would've been Vezina consideration numbers. Are goalies now just THAT good? No, they're not. They've gotten bigger, and their equipment, irregardless of size is very effective and very well researched. Anything shy of a rocket shot can be smothered relatively easily and it's no coincidence. The shape of the pads is also no coincidence. And our own Jimmy, at about 6' tall is getting to be on the smallish side. These days Ozzy fits well into the 'small goalie' category unquestionably.

Now there's nothing wrong with any of this, but the size of the net was designed with a goaltender more along Ozzy's size, with not nearly the pad technology that he or any other modern goalie has at their disposal. I hate to say "OMGZ MAKE THE NETS BIGGER", but what else are you going to do? Goalies have grown, maybe it's time the net does.

And if you're going to think of that, you have to consider the size and athleticism of the average NHLer compared to even 15 years ago. Long gone are the days when guys can get into shape at training camp. Long gone are the days when a defenseman @ 6'-2" 200-210lbs is considered a big guy. These guys are in very, very good shape and skate with much more skill and speed than they ever have. And a legitimate big guy in today's league is 6'4" 220 minimum.

Make the ice bigger. Before you go all conservative on me- they used to be bigger (and smaller) back when. They didn't all used to be the same size back when either- I for one don't mind that idea either.

That's my take, disagree/fine tune/elaborate/prove me wrong.

You make a lot of good points. The overall pad size, player size, combined with the limiting fo the ice has made the rink 'much smaller' (perception wise) than years past. Which creates more traffic.

[kook_10 1,705]

Ummm, you got me there? I really don't even know how to form a basis on how to respond to your last post.

nothing to read into, just entertaining hockey and an entertaining clip. i'm not trying to revise history and say the Wings didn't suck then - they did. that doesn't mean you can't be entertained. I was and am still a fan.

[kook_10 1,705]

Right on all three counts.

1) Automatic icing should have been made the rule 20 years ago.

2) Plastic blongs in helmets and skates, not shoulder pads. Pads should be, you know, pads. If you want to play without them, great. If you want a lot of padding, great. Elbows and shoulders should be softened, not armoured. Hard pads reduce pain when hitting, but they do not reduce injury to the hitter (or faller) and they do (I belive) increase injury to the guy being hit. Hitting someone should hurt.

I'm flashing back to Marty McSorely. Dude played a full, tough game, and for many years did not not wear any shoulder pads at all, he only wore the fiber cups, having removed all the foam. Tough guy, that Marty. I like the pads Cheli and Shanny were wearing when they retired too. If 78 year old Chelios doesn't need hard plastic, neither does Johnny Wetbehindtheears fresh out of the SEL.

3) the instigator penalty serves only to make it more difficult for teams to answer cheapshots and protect their star players. There was never a problem in the NHL with goons going after skilled players. There is currently a problem with guys like Avery and Downie playing bigger than they are. I'd like to see that nipped in the bud, Dave Brown style.

4) Get rid of the trapezoid

5) Ease up on goaltender interference and go back to the 8x4 rectangular goal crease and blow the play dead on crease infractions (get the goalies deeper in the net)

6) allow more battling in front of the net

7) Hand out packs of cigarettes to defensemen

[Guest micah]

4) Get rid of the trapezoid

5) Ease up on goaltender interference and go back to the 8x4 rectangular goal crease and blow the play dead on crease infractions (get the goalies deeper in the net)

6) allow more battling in front of the net

7) Hand out packs of cigarettes to defensemen

Agreed on all.

Also, more men in the stands should wear coats and hats, and whoever decided that cigar smoking ought not be permitted in arenas anymore should be strung up. There's something very cool about the old footage of smokey, cold arenas.

Oh yeah, I'd really like a '58 DeSoto while I'm dreaming:)

[Guest E_S_A_D]

nothing to read into, just entertaining hockey and an entertaining clip. i'm not trying to revise history and say the Wings didn't suck then - they did. that doesn't mean you can't be entertained. I was and am still a fan.

Oh, in that case I think we're in total agreement. The 1980s were the best years that I enjoyed at the shoe. I was probably at 500 games throughout the 80s, without exaggeration and loved them all.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I see nothing wrong with lots of goals.

I also see nothing wrong with few goals.

I also don't know of bandwagon fans who wanted shootouts and lots of penalties (since the premise of the increased penalties was to keep players from clutching and grabbing and open up the game more).

The term "bandwagon" seems to be thrown around a lot, and I don't see why. If the "new age" of hockey becomes increasingly popular, what's the problem? I will pretty much watch hockey no matter what kind of game is being played because I love the sport for what it is, and I don't think that "bandwagoners" are changing the sport in any way, shape or form.

Also the guy you quoted seems to have the exact opposite opinion on what is entertaining than you:

"Scoring off the rush is a thing of the past, & so is the entertainment value."

Edited January 8, 2010 by Doc Holliday

[esteef 2,679]

Maybe there's just more parity in the league?

esteef

[Konnan511 1,736]

bettman needs to go, slowly he is killing the NHL

I still find the NHL entertaining. And not to mention with Bettman at the helm te league has seen increased profits ever year, with this year being no exception. I hate all this blind Bettman hate, what happened to the days of thinking for yourself?

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

I still find the NHL entertaining. And not to mention with Bettman at the helm te league has seen increased profits ever year, with this year being no exception. I hate all this blind Bettman hate, what happened to the days of thinking for yourself?

Profits may be up, but does that have anything to do with the Salary Cap? I mean, the Wings payroll is half of what it used to be and ticket prices and merchandise sales have probably stayed consistent. Hence more revenue which in turn is now shared across the league. I'd be interested to see where popularity and attendance is nowadays versus profit. The league is now broadcast on a third tier network and has had many sports surpass it in terms of popularity versus where it was in the 90's when it was arguably a top 4 or 5 sport and now it is top 7 or 8.

Edited January 8, 2010 by ManLuv4Clears

[IILeiBlazeII 15]

This will be interesting. Oh please, more penalties, more goals, that's interference ref!, and while you're at it get rid of that nasty fighting!!![/i]

While I don't like your tactics on how to bring it up on LGW, I can't agree with you more. The "new" NHL is boring, tasteless and, to an even greater extent, more dangerous than the "old" NHL. Because of the lack of clutching and grabbing and fighting, more players are resorting to making unreasonably large hits - and I don't mean open ice, I mean chasing someone down for the icing call or following a dump-in and either the offenseman lambasting the defenseman or vice versa, leading to all sorts of misery. A simple way to correct that specifically is no-touch icing... but an even easier way would have been to have the insight to know that this BS was going to happen.

Alas, I feel like I'm a studio wrestler... my face-heel turns and heel-face turns are getting ahead of me. I know for sure I used to say (prior to the lockout) "Man... we're getting raped out there by bigger and badder teams... I sure wish a ref would make a call every once in a while on all those hooks, trips and interference penalties!"

...ah, if I only had a time machine...

[egroen 384]

I would love for them to seriously take a look at expanding the rink size.

I was pleasantly surprised to see Devallano in favor of the same thing in a recent issue of the Hockey News -- players are bigger and faster than they were 50 years ago, give them some more space. I also think we would see less injuries out there. Tough to see increased goal scoring when half the NHL's stars are out with an injury.

NHL rinks are 85' wide and Olympic rinks are 100' feet wide.... somewhere right in the middle would be perfect, IMO.

Edited January 8, 2010 by egroen

[Echolalia 2,961]

I would love for them to seriously take a look at expanding the rink size.

I was pleasantly surprised to see Devallano in favor of the same thing in a recent issue of the Hockey News -- players are bigger and faster than they were 50 years ago, give them some more space. I also think we would see less injuries out there. Tough to see increased goal scoring when half the NHL's stars are out with an injury.

NHL rinks are 85' wide and Olympic rinks are 100' feet wide.... somewhere right in the middle would be perfect, IMO.

I have wanted exactly this for such a long time.

[Guest Lidstromboli]

henrik sedin isn't going to score as many goals as past points leaders?

guess it's time for another lockout

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

In order to make hockey as exciting as the 80's, the league would have to force goalies to play the stand-up style and to force defensemen to play every game as if it's a game of exhibition pond hockey.

That's not going to happen. The game has evolved in a way to make it more boring, and there's no way to devolve it back to the 80's era of high scoring and lots of fighting.

[egroen 384]

henrik sedin isn't going to score as many goals as past points leaders?

guess it's time for another lockout

Lol, yeah that point really deflated his whole article.

[StevieY9802 6]

I still find the NHL entertaining. And not to mention with Bettman at the helm te league has seen increased profits ever year, with this year being no exception. I hate all this blind Bettman hate, what happened to the days of thinking for yourself?

I find it entraining but i still want him gone. Yes the league is doing well money-wise but how much of it is the top teams holding up the bottom ones? It might be good but the league can be better without some of these teams being in crap markets. He also took away tradition of the names of the conferences and divisions to make it more generic. Did he really think people would be like "ohhh it's the Western Conference... I'll watch the NHL now." He also seems to fight like hell to keep teams in bad markets. he talks about business but how many businesses would stay where they are losing millions and millions of dollars.

Then he defends the crap out of the rules saying it's fine and you'll see guys clutch and grab and then a little stick gets hit a guy and looks like it could have been a hook and they call that. And from game to game you have no idea what the calls will be. You'll see one game of 2 PP's for a team and another of 9. I find it hard to believe that some teams are that good at not taking penalties. I remember the game in Dallas just before Christmas and the Wings had 2 pp's, the last one in the last minute of play and they let a lot go that game.

Then there's the TV deal. NBC doesn't pay jack for it and VS isn't on all companies and the whole Direct TV thing. Bettman's answer was: "That's a Direct TV and Comcast issue." No it's an NHL issue too. You want to grow the game and how many people aren't seeing games now? I could see David Stern stepping in in a similar situation and saying you will get this worked out.

I believe Bettman has done all he can for the league. I think it's time for someone new.

Back to the article, goals and points don't say if clutching and grabbing is going on or not going on. BUT I agree with him that it is slowly coming back in. You saw it in the playoffs last year. I looked a while back and I think the Wings and Pens both averaged 5 or 6 PP's a game during the season. In the finals, not counting game 5 where the Wings had like 8, both teams averaged about 2 a game. As I remember reading in an article, "Either Kirk Maltby and Hal Gill learned not to grab or the refs are letting things go."

I'm not for 10 pp's a game unless they were legit penalties. Just call the rules and let the battles for the pucks go and don't call the chincy stuff. It realy wouldn't be that hard. Mickey said it a few games ago. There is a good place between how they call some light crap now and how they let it go before.

[egroen 384]

When anyone points to Bettman, and how profits and revenues have increased over his tenure, they are missing the point. The NHL was exploding in popularity at the time he took over, and has failed to keep that pace nor match with the growth of numerous other major sports -- I think of all the profits and revenues 'missed' and the growth not realized with Bettman at the helm.

Edited January 8, 2010 by egroen

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

I've noticed the refs allowing more and more clutching and grabbing this season especially, but yet they are still able to make the phantom calls, so I guess it all evens out. I hate the cheap BS like that which slows down the game most of all. I've never called for the need for more goals really, I've never had a problem with it. I do hate how this generation of hockey player seems to hit, often with the elbows or from behind. I don't think it has anything to do with the system in place, but it seems like once a week you hear about a borderline dirty hit and someone going down for a month.

For some reason, probably because the Wings have been so horrible offensively this season, the clutching and grabbing seems up from previous years. Also, just like in the previous era, you have to take into account players and coaches adjusting to refereeing trends and the overall bulls*** of the Bettman Era.

this generations hockey player turns their back everytime they're about to get hit, resulting in them getting hit from behind. with the speed of the game, guys pay the price when they do that at the last second. it's not like they're claude lemieux hits on draper...alot of the guys bring it on themselves because they're afraid to get hit clean cause the guy won't get a penalty if he hits them clean so they turn their back and make sure they lay there for a few minutes after getting hit.

as for the "dead puck era"...i noticed the scoring leaders going down every year since the lockout and it's because the NHL is making its way back to the clutching and grabbing. they guys in the NHL are faster and bigger in alot of cases making it harder to find room on the ice. you want more goals of the rush and less clutching and grabbing?? solution: MAKE THE ICE SURFACE LARGER!

if they split the difference between international size ice and NHL ice and made all the rinks that much bigger, it would open up the game alot and the "skilled" players would then have an advantage ALL the time. they would have more space to move around before lurch tries to tackle them.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

Keep in mind the original article wasn't comparing the 1980s or even 1990s. He was comparing stats and the decline since the rule changes/ Bettman era starting with 2002.

[Guest mindfly]

Late 90's hockey were the best imo... 80's they were not skilled enough, late 00's it's just wrong in so many aspects... One should be able to interfere/obstruct a LITTLE and touch their stick on their gloves a LITTLE...when a player dumb the puck in a defender should be able to hit him, nowdays that's interference...

It's just too much zero tolerance these days

Edited January 8, 2010 by mindfly

[egroen 384]

I am convinced the 'solution' will simply be expansion. Yes, there is absolutely no question that more teams and more AHL-caliber players on the ice for the stars to school will result in more goals, but I am really against it for a variety of reasons.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

I have wanted exactly this for such a long time.

I disagree regarding rink size. Lets make the ball bigger in baseball too so there's higher batting averages. I'm old school, I realize, but lets not alter the sets of rules/ expectations from generation to generation.