1/21 GDT: Red Wings at Minnesota Wild

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

The Red Wings won the game in the shoot out. So yes, Howard clearly was the difference in this game.

Or the shooters were.

Or nobody really was.

Yeah.

[Rivalred 630]

Shoot out would ended a lot earlier if Leino was not in

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

Or the shooters were.

Or nobody really was.

Yeah.

The shootout is 50/50 between the goalie and the shooters, but when you suck in the shootout as much as the Wings do you rely more on your goalie. To say Howard didn't make a difference in the shootout is dumb. I guess all those shots he stopped were inconsequential.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Shoot out would ended a lot earlier if Leino was not in

Really? How's that? Did the guy right after him score? No he didn't. So who's to say that the scoring would've been the same with a different shootout order. Are you ragging on Bertuzzi or Zetterberg for not scoring in the shootout?

Or do you just like to blame the failures of the star and superstar players on the rookies making $850,000?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Or the shooters were.

Or nobody really was.

Yeah.

You can't win a shootout against a goalie like Backstrom unless your shooters are scoring like nuts or your goalie is performing at or above Backstrom's level. Considering that the shootout took 8 rounds to end and only 2 of those shooters scored on Howard I'd say he did ok.

The real star of that shootout was Filppula. He really delivered in the toughest position possible. Val saved our asses last night.

[Z and D for the C 712]

I think 40-45 is his average with a peak at 50 if he's real lucky. And it'll be the least flashy 50 points ever.

See this is why I say that Filppula could score 80 points and you'll still dismiss him. You hedge your bets about Filppula by saying that he MIGHT do relatively well offensively (probably because see you that you're slowly being proven wrong)..but then you say that it'll be the "least flashy" points ever, a completely brainless thought. Filppula, for his standards, has been on fire recently. Datsyuk's slump or not, being only 1 point behind datsyuk since Filppula's return is damn impressive, though I know you won't admit that. I'm positive he'll continue that, which means his overall P/G will improve, and even at his p/g right now (Which is behind only Datsyuk and Zetterberg for forwards), over 82s games he's set to get 48 points. In the past 11 games he has 8 points, which over at 82 game season is 60 points. You really think he MIGHT only get 50 points IF HE'S LUCKY? And you don't realize he's going to continue to improve?

Yes, Flip's biggest gripe is he doesn't get the puck to the net, and yeah, it's a big issue, but people said that about Datsyuk too and look where he's at. Now Filppula will never be Datsyuk, but Filppula is still young so saying that Filppula has peaked makes no sense.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Z and D for the C

[titanium2 867]

See this is why I say that Filppula could score 80 points and you'll still dismiss him. You hedge your bets about Filppula by saying that he MIGHT do relatively well offensively (probably because see you that you're slowly being proven wrong)..but then you say that it'll be the "least flashy" points ever, a completely brainless thought. Filppula, for his standards, has been on fire recently. Datsyuk's slump or not, being only 1 point behind datsyuk since Filppula's return is damn impressive, though I know you won't admit that. I'm positive he'll continue that, which means his overall P/G will improve, and even at his p/g right now (Which is behind only Datsyuk and Zetterberg for forwards), over 82s games he's set to get 48 points. In the past 11 games he has 8 points, which over at 82 game season is 60 points. You really think he MIGHT only get 50 points IF HE'S LUCKY? And you don't realize he's going to continue to improve?

Yes, Flip's biggest gripe is he doesn't get the puck to the net, and yeah, it's a big issue, but people said that about Datsyuk too and look where he's at. Now Filppula will never be Datsyuk, but Filppula is still young so saying that Filppula has peaked makes no sense.

He's all about the tangible evidence. Most of what you said will fall on deaf ears.

[Z and D for the C 712]

What is tangible evidence then? Jesus coming to earth and declaring Filppula the next son of god? Is that what it will take?

Any reasonable person would look at his totals since he's been back and say "hmm, maybe this kid might have something in him". You don't need to say he's amazing and he doesn't need to be everyone's favorite player instantly, but at least give some credit where credit is due. he'll probably also deny that Flip did anything special in the shootout. Flip probably just got a lucky gust of wind that propelled the puck around Backstrom.

[titanium2 867]

What is tangible evidence then? Jesus coming to earth and declaring Filppula the next son of god? Is that what it will take?

Any reasonable person would look at his totals since he's been back and say "hmm, maybe this kid might have something in him". You don't need to say he's amazing and he doesn't need to be everyone's favorite player instantly, but at least give some credit where credit is due. he'll probably also deny that Flip did anything special in the shootout. Flip probably just got a lucky gust of wind that propelled the puck around Backstrom.

You're preaching to the choir here when it comes to Fil.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

See this is why I say that Filppula could score 80 points and you'll still dismiss him. You hedge your bets about Filppula by saying that he MIGHT do relatively well offensively (probably because see you that you're slowly being proven wrong)..but then you say that it'll be the "least flashy" points ever, a completely brainless thought. Filppula, for his standards, has been on fire recently. Datsyuk's slump or not, being only 1 point behind datsyuk since Filppula's return is damn impressive, though I know you won't admit that. I'm positive he'll continue that, which means his overall P/G will improve, and even at his p/g right now (Which is behind only Datsyuk and Zetterberg for forwards), over 82s games he's set to get 48 points. In the past 11 games he has 8 points, which over at 82 game season is 60 points. You really think he MIGHT only get 50 points IF HE'S LUCKY? And you don't realize he's going to continue to improve?

Yes, Flip's biggest gripe is he doesn't get the puck to the net, and yeah, it's a big issue, but people said that about Datsyuk too and look where he's at. Now Filppula will never be Datsyuk, but Filppula is still young so saying that Filppula has peaked makes no sense.

I'm somewhere in the middle of this argument, and while I KNOW Filppula has the talent and capability to be a great 2nd line center, and personally think he will break 50 points consistently for the majority of his career, you don't really think he will put up 80 points do you? I'd say a few years at 60-65 ish are his peak.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Oh no, I definitely don't think he'll put up 80. I'm just saying that if by some miracle he does, gcom would find a way to shove it aside.

[gcom007 1,465]

What is tangible evidence then? Jesus coming to earth and declaring Filppula the next son of god? Is that what it will take?

Any reasonable person would look at his totals since he's been back and say "hmm, maybe this kid might have something in him". You don't need to say he's amazing and he doesn't need to be everyone's favorite player instantly, but at least give some credit where credit is due. he'll probably also deny that Flip did anything special in the shootout. Flip probably just got a lucky gust of wind that propelled the puck around Backstrom.

1 goal, 7 assists, 13 games. About 50 Point pace. Not bad. Funny, I never said it was.

What about his totals before he got injured? 2 goals, 4 assists, 11 games. About 45 Point pace. Not bad. I never said that was bad either.

What seems odd about that to me is that I'm pretty sure I said he'll average 40-45 points per season with a top end of 50 points. Yep, I definitely did. So based on the statistical evidence we can observe from the last few years as well as what we can observe this year, I believe there is far more TANGIBLE EVIDENCE to suggest that it's not so outlandish to think he's a 40-45 point guy with a top end of 50.

What I have continued to say is that the guy is overpaid for those numbers, and I stand by that. What do you want me to say? How about...

"Good job Flip for putting up exactly the kind of numbers I expect you to put up based on your skill set."

...I guess that it's no matter that I think those numbers aren't really worthy of a 5-year $3 million/season contract on a team that is already very strong defensively. So let's add to the first statement to make it more realistic...

"Good job Flip for putting up exactly the kind of numbers I expect you to put up based on your skill set. It's too bad you're still underachieving based on your current cap hit. Oh yeah, you're still not providing any help in the goal scoring department. And yes, that is the department most in need of help right now for this team."

Again, my number one biggest beef is the lack of goal scoring/points despite his $3 million salary on a team that is already very strong defensively. He's redundant, overpaid and his skill set and history suggests that he is not the guy to fill our hole in the goal-scoring department. Until he puts up numbers at a 60-70 point pace and starts scoring more goals throughout an entire season, I'm never going to be happy he's making $1 million more money than Eaves and Bertuzzi combined.

Believe me, I'll be happy if he ever becomes the player you seem to think he'll become, as I don't believe he has the offensive skill set necessary to do so, furthered by the fact that he's yet to actually show that he can do it down the stretch. He's always been a streaky player. I'm not going to get overly excited about him putting up numbers that I fully expect him to put up based on his skill set when I still don't believe those numbers to be worthy of a $3 million cap hit.

But hey, have fun continuing to think I hate him and am just being negative for thinking he's not going to be an 80 point guy. After all, it makes so much more sense to think he's going to be a 60-80 point guy when he's never scored at such a pace with any sort of consistency at all, including this year. And what's this year? This is his breakout year, right? But wait...what number are we on now, because wasn't last year his breakout year too?

[Z and D for the C 712]

What seems odd about that to me is that I'm pretty sure I said he'll average 40-45 points per season with a top end of 50 points. Yep, I definitely did. So based on the statistical evidence we can observe from the last few years as well as what we can observe this year, I believe there is far more TANGIBLE EVIDENCE to suggest that it's not so outlandish to think he's a 40-45 point guy with a top end of 50.

You said he'd be"really lucky" to get 50 points (and you couldn't even admit that without putting him down somehow). I'm going to say that you're smart enough to know what that implies so I won't explain it. But not only does he not have to be "really lucky" to get 50 points, with the second line duty he has earned, he is a shoe in for 50 points.

And you talk about the "last few years" as though he's been in the league 10 years. His past 3 years have been is first 3 years in the league. And he has improved in each.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Z and D for the C

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I don't think we had one penalty in yesterday's game.

I can't remember that happening too often.

[cjm502 165]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I don't think we had one penalty in yesterday's game.

I can't remember that happening too often.

Remember Leinos interference in the 1st? It was so pathetic, I doubt you forgot.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Remember Leinos interference in the 1st? It was so pathetic, I doubt you forgot.

Oh yeah. That's the one Helm and Eaves missed that breakaway chance on.

O.K. so it was only one penalty. Still not common in today's NHL.

[gcom007 1,465]

You said he'd be"really lucky" to get 50 points (and you couldn't even admit that without putting him down somehow). I'm going to say that you're smart enough to know what that implies so I won't explain it. But not only does he not have to be "really lucky" to get 50 points, with the second line duty he has earned, he is a shoe in for 50 points.

And you talk about the "last few years" as though he's been in the league 10 years. His past 3 years have been is first 3 years in the league. And he has improved in each.

Wow, semantics, wow. I still think he'd have to be real lucky to hit 50 because he's proven to be streaky. And that's not a new suggestion either, and one that I certainly didn't originate. It's one that's well backed up though by his game to game numbers each season.

And I'm sorry, but an improvement of 4 points with a couple more games played last year to boot doesn't really amount to outer-worldly improvement. From .46 PPG average to .50 PPG average! .04 PPG average improvement! YAY!!!

I would try to avoid that line if you're trying to making a solid point about him improving.

What I put down is his contract and your exaggerated suggestions based on theories of events that have yet to occur. You take it as a personal offense that I think a 40-45 point guy who's more of a defensive-forward isn't likely to be a 60-80 point guy. That's not me putting him down, that's me interpreting what I see and the numbers he's put up thus far. I never said it was bad for Flip so much as that those numbers don't deserve such a nice contract. As far as sheer performance goes, it's not bad in the context that I frame him in. It's bad in your context because you've placed him up on a higher pedestal.

So again, I think by seasons end he'll average out to be a 40-45 point guy (proportional to 82 games). If he's able to keep some streaks up, he might get lucky and land close to the 50 point spot (proportional to 82 games). As he's been known to be streaky, I think it's more likely that he'll end up at the 40-45 point spot especially once we're healthy and he loses power play time.

I guess we'll see what happens, but if it goes down like I'm saying again, can you please back off of your stance a bit next season?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Stop arguing guys... Lang told me the truth of the matter anyway: Filppula is lazy and he sucks