1/21 GDT: Red Wings at Minnesota Wild

[Cern 0]

And for the love of all that is good... could you please change your sig? it's depressing

I keep it on as a reminder not to get too cocky.

[Casey 145]

I keep it on as a reminder not to get too cocky.

Makes sense, but nobody's going to want any part of playing Detroit in the first round. This could be epic.

[titanium2 867]

"We wouldn't have any wins if it weren't for those guys (role players)," coach Mike Babcock said. "It's not like our big guys have been scoring like crazy."

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100122/SPORTS...t#ixzz0dK1Iqgcg

Whatever happened to the Euro Twins magic?

[DatsZ 0]

If it weren't for Ericksson, this game would never have gone into overtime. The Wild needs to thank him for the point they got due to his inept play and scoring one of their goals for them! It's time for him to be a healthy scratch. The only thing he adds to the team is size, and he has no clue how to use it!

[gcom007 1,465]

Long time lurker, new poster here.

I've noticed that a lot of Filppula's critics like to harp on his "secondary" assists to diminish his value, well since returning from his injury, all but 1 of his assists have been primary, and in the Washington game he got the only assist on both goals. Not taking sides in this particular arguement, but just pointing out this fact.

That is true in this instance, but go back and review the video on them all. Many of them might as well be secondary assists as they're most certainly not "playmaker" assists. Someone described it very well recently though I don't remember who. They said something like Flip gets a lot of credit for just "existing" out there as he doesn't make spectacular plays oftentimes when he's getting these assists. When he makes a pass in the neutral zone to a guy who skates into the zone on his own and makes a great shot for a goal, should I get real excited for Flip getting a point? I'm not saying we should take it away from him, but he's racked up many of his points recently making average passes that someone else ends up turning into a scoring play. Not always, but not rarely either. It's not like this guy is getting Datsyuk-like assists where he makes a brilliant pass to create a play. Again, just look at the video...

I'm not saying the guy's horrible either though. I'm saying the guy is NOT worth $3 million. I don't care what AussieWing and Z D whatever say. They have no tangible evidence to suggest he's as good as they wish he was or think he will be. It always boils down to "he's set to have his breakout year," or "he'll be a much bigger scoring threat....soon...."

I just want to know when?

The guy doesn't score goals. He has 3. Eaves has 7.

We're paying Patrick Eaves $500K.

Eaves doesn't get as much ice time as Flip, nor the power play time. Early on he barely got any ice time at all when he dressed at all.

Look at Bertuzzi. 14 goals, 14 assists, $1.5 million. He's injury prone and he's stayed healthy too.

You can say he's been injured which is true, but if you break it down to points per game, Bertuzzi's got a goal per game rate that's as good as Flips point per game rate.

If we double Flips goals he's still near the bottom of our team in scoring, and that comes if we do nothing to account for anyone else's injuries. Proportionally or not, he's near the bottom for goals. We need goals from everyone let alone guys we play $3 million a year.

I'm sorry, but I think it's absolutely ludicrous to pay a guy $3 million a year who doesn't score goals, is an average playmaker at best. He has solid defensive skills, but we have plenty of guys with solid defensive skills, and they can actually score goals too. I think it's ludicrous to continue suggesting that he's going to break out into some scoring threat. He does not have what it takes.

I don't care how much his fanboys like him, until he starts playing even close to a level worthy of his contract, he's going to take a lot of crap from people.

Edited January 22, 2010 by gcom007

[clutchngrab 12]

lol. Not only do we disagree about goalies, we disagree about forwards. I acknowledge that 3M is a bit high, but Fil is a legit 2nd line playmaker who will continue to improve. It would be nice if he scored more goals, but right now he is on the same pace as Z. The problem with this team is that we have no pure goal scorers. Dats, Z and Flip are the same player, so to that extent I say yes, trade the 3 mil for a scorer. However, I do not diminish his value. He does alot out there when he is not scoring. I for one see a much better team sice he has been back.

Edited January 22, 2010 by clutchngrab

[titanium2 867]

I for one see a much better team sice he has been back.

But there is no tangible evidence for that claim. It's about the tangibles.

[gcom007 1,465]

lol. Not only do we disagree about goalies, we disagree about forwards. I acknowledge that 3M is a bit high, but Fil is a legit 2nd line playmaker who will continue to improve. It would be nice if he scored more goals, but right now he is on the same pace as Z. The problem with this team is that we have no pure goal scorers. Dats, Z and Flip are the same player, so to that extent I say yes, trade the 3 mil for a scorer. However, I do not diminish his value. He does alot out there when he is not scoring. I for one see a much better team sice he has been back.

I don't think we're as far off on this as you think. I think he's a 2nd line guy on many teams, but not the Wings. Granted, that takes into account the lack of goal scoring touch and our utter need for that. I don't think comparing him with Z this year is at all fair. I don't know what's with Z, but this is clearly an off year for him while it continues to be average for Flip. Flip's on pace to put up similar numbers to what he's done the last few years, which I think is about his peak. I think 40-45 is his average with a peak at 50 if he's real lucky. And it'll be the least flashy 50 points ever. He does a lot out there when it comes to defending our end, but again, we've got a lot of guys that do that for far less money and they can actually score goals and put up 40-50 points a year too.

I've been saying all along, it's not that Flip is so bad so much as he's overpaid and REDUNDANT as you said. We're 7-6 since he's returned, been shut out twice, and are scoring a few more goals, though we also go some guy named Zetterberg back shortly after Flip. I'm not saying he doesn't help, but I don't think he's incredibly consequential to our success either, again because he's mostly redundant. Like you, I say I'd trade his $3 million away for a guy who can score. Defense is his biggest strength and that's not an issue for us. We need goals. He is not a goal scorer. That's just too much to pay for a guy who can't be counted on for goals.

[Spongewingredpants 75]

who would have thought at the beginning of the season that the Wings have to rely on winning games by relying on guys they scraped off waiver and perceived had beens.

Wow

Its like the Coyotes........

[dat's sick 1,002]

Saw the game this morning. I could see Minny's comeback coming, but damn those were some lucky goals they got.

Nice shootout move by Pavel again, and that was really clutch by Flip and Miller to win it for us.

Big 2 points, shame we gave them one as well, but if we beat the Kings we're in a good position.

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

The game against LA is really shaping up to be a good one. This could be the start of a nice little run before we start getting some more injured guys back. Let's finally put LA behind us and keep them there.

[Firehawk 305]

well for how many years have the media/ other fans said how pointless and meaningless so many games during the regular season have been?

this year at least right now, is markedly different. i actually enjoy it in a sense.

I agree with you. It is nice when your team is certain to make the playoffs, but this year adds a level of exceitment that we have really not had in decades now. Every game means so much, and I'm very excited for every game. Not to the point of a playoff game, but it is a definite elevated state of excitement for each game compared to previous years.

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

I agree with you. It is nice when your team is certain to make the playoffs, but this year adds a level of exceitment that we have really not had in decades now. Every game means so much, and I'm very excited for every game. Not to the point of a playoff game, but it is a definite elevated state of excitement for each game compared to previous years.

What you call excitement I call hell.

[FinWing 26]

Phew. Huge win.

[Phazon 24]

ugly game. Wings cannot hold a lead anymore.

[Guest mindfly]

Please Ericsson-Lebda pairing does NOT work out, it was brutal to see them screw up every damn shift, kronwall get back ASAP

[Vladifan 680]

lol. Not only do we disagree about goalies, we disagree about forwards. I acknowledge that 3M is a bit high, but Fil is a legit 2nd line playmaker who will continue to improve. It would be nice if he scored more goals, but right now he is on the same pace as Z. The problem with this team is that we have no pure goal scorers. Dats, Z and Flip are the same player, so to that extent I say yes, trade the 3 mil for a scorer. However, I do not diminish his value. He does alot out there when he is not scoring. I for one see a much better team sice he has been back.

I haven't been all that crazy about his play but what I've noticed recently is that even if he still loses the puck too easily, he re-captures it quite well on other occasions where he wasn't originally part of the play. And sometimes, his passing in front of the goal is really quite timely.

[Vladifan 680]

who would have thought at the beginning of the season that the Wings have to rely on winning games by relying on guys they scraped off waiver and perceived had beens.

Wow

Its like the Coyotes........

I think it says something about their mindset, their history and their rep. It ain't exactly of epic proportions (yet), but their effort surely is somewhat heroic right now.

[Yak19 303]

No way we should have lost that 2 goal lead in the 3rd, Howard was solid throughout the game maybe the 3rd goal you can blame him for but the ppl saying that we should get on him like we did Ozzie must have missed all the timely saves he made in this one and he was huge in the shootout. Miller is turning out to be one heck of a pick up

This should have never of gone to a SO but at least we got the 2 points, i would have raged hard if we blew this one completely.

Full Shootout for those looking: http://redwings.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?ca...34&id=57986

On to the Kings

GO WINGS!!!!

Edited January 22, 2010 by Yak19

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

If we win this game, LA is guaranteed a come from behind shootout victory tonight.

This is why everybody hates you GMR.

How did you know?

[clutchngrab 12]

I don't think we're as far off on this as you think. I think he's a 2nd line guy on many teams, but not the Wings. Granted, that takes into account the lack of goal scoring touch and our utter need for that. I don't think comparing him with Z this year is at all fair. I don't know what's with Z, but this is clearly an off year for him while it continues to be average for Flip. Flip's on pace to put up similar numbers to what he's done the last few years, which I think is about his peak. I think 40-45 is his average with a peak at 50 if he's real lucky. And it'll be the least flashy 50 points ever. He does a lot out there when it comes to defending our end, but again, we've got a lot of guys that do that for far less money and they can actually score goals and put up 40-50 points a year too.

I've been saying all along, it's not that Flip is so bad so much as he's overpaid and REDUNDANT as you said. We're 7-6 since he's returned, been shut out twice, and are scoring a few more goals, though we also go some guy named Zetterberg back shortly after Flip. I'm not saying he doesn't help, but I don't think he's incredibly consequential to our success either, again because he's mostly redundant. Like you, I say I'd trade his $3 million away for a guy who can score. Defense is his biggest strength and that's not an issue for us. We need goals. He is not a goal scorer. That's just too much to pay for a guy who can't be counted on for goals.

I don't have too much trouble with this argument other than I believe he still has an upside as he is still fairly young. If we are talking bang for buck, I would look at the under-performing 13 million on the blue-line first. Especially the 6 mil for the #2 guy with a no trade.

Edited January 22, 2010 by clutchngrab

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Please Ericsson-Lebda pairing does NOT work out, it was brutal to see them screw up every damn shift, kronwall get back ASAP

Ericsson's skating doesn't look to be back to normal yet but he didn't look terrible out there. He wasn't credited with any turnovers on the game sheet (although I saw one quasi turnover where he bobbled the puck pretty badly). To be honest he just doesn't look confident out there. The only difference between Ericsson last year and this year is that this year he seems to have lost his confidence somewhere after he stopped scoring. He's an offensive guy that's playing a defensive roll and struggling in it. Part of that is inexperience and getting to know the NHL game and part of it is owing to the fact that he's used to being an offensive guy and hasn't played this role much.

On the last goal Ericsson had his man tied up beside the net and the puck deflected in off Havlat's skate-- there was nothing E could've done there, he was playing his role properly-- he had Havlat's stick tied up and his body wedged beside the net.

I don't remember the other goal, though, so he might have been at fault there.

But overall I agree that Ericsson-Lebda is brutal. Lebda doesn't provide E with any veteran cushioning to ease the rookie transition. Any misplay Ericsson might make is amplified by having to play alongside someone who plays like a rookie himself.

If you don't think the pairing matters consider this-- Stuart's +/- has taking a serious beating since he was paired up with Meech.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

No way we should have lost that 2 goal lead in the 3rd, Howard was solid throughout the game maybe the 3rd goal you can blame him for but the ppl saying that we should get on him like we did Ozzie must have missed all the timely saves he made in this one and he was huge in the shootout.

He didn't make that many timely saves, if any. He had trouble with rebound control and had no odd man rushes against.

Howard was not the difference in this game one way or the other and neither was Osgood the night before.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

If it weren't for Ericksson, this game would never have gone into overtime. The Wild needs to thank him for the point they got due to his inept play and scoring one of their goals for them! It's time for him to be a healthy scratch. The only thing he adds to the team is size, and he has no clue how to use it!

He tied Havlat's stick up and pinned him to the side of the net. How did you expect to also have Havlat's skate pinned without getting called for interference?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

He didn't make that many timely saves, if any. He had trouble with rebound control and had no odd man rushes against.

Howard was not the difference in this game one way or the other and neither was Osgood the night before.

The Red Wings won the game in the shoot out. So yes, Howard clearly was the difference in this game.