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The 5-year trial is over: Scrub the shootout


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#1 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 06:34 AM

My suggestion for fixing OT would be to eliminate the SO and move to a 10 minute 4-on-4 OT period. If still tied after OT, then each team receives a point. Hockey is a team sport, not a skills competition. How would you change OT and the SO?
QUOTE
The shoot-out concept was cute at first. The NHL acquiesced to short attention spans after the owners' lockout five years ago, guaranteeing a quick resolution to regular-season overtime games. Turn 65 minutes of grinding endurance into a dazzling, gimmicky one-on-one skills competition for an extra point.

There stood Jimmy Howard outside the crease Sunday, knowing that nothing friendly stood between himself and two of the NHL's most lethal stickmen -- Sidney Crosby on one rush and Evgeni Malkin on the next -- during the Wings' shoot-out against the Penguins.

Both made splendid moves to score on Howard. Crosby went top shelf off his backhand, and Malkin patiently waited for Howard to commit before calmly tucking the puck behind the fallen goalie's skate.

Pittsburgh got the point, but the NHL is missing the point.

Maybe I've simply grown tired of the shoot-out, because it seems to happen so frequently that there's no longer anything fresh about it. Perhaps the NHL should acknowledge it made a mistake in cheapening the value of victory for the sake of creating easy highlights for "SportsCenter" (That is, on those rare occasions when "SportsCenter" shows hockey highlights).

It's February. Points are a premium now. There isn't much breathing room separating the 10th team in the conference standings from the fifth team. The Wings are ninth, one spot out of the final playoff spot among the Western Conference field following their 2-1 (shoot-out) loss to the Penguins, but they're only nine points shy of fourth place and home-ice advantage in the first round.

Points are too precious not to go to those who fight hardest for them. The shoot-out has turned regular-season overtime into a white-flag surrender. Motivation isn't there to get two points by old-fashioned methods. Teams would rather play it safe through overtime, get the point and take their chances in the shoot-out, where the best scorers are free to operate without a defensive bull's-eye on their back.

Give the NHL points for outside-the-box thinking, but if it's heresy determining playoff games through such gimmicks -- and it is -- then why not apply the same principle when doling out crucial late-season points necessary for earning final playoff berths?

The Wings are 4-6 in shoot-outs.

Fear not. They're going to make the playoffs. Johan Franzen should return just before the Olympics. And Howard has been nothing short of spectacular, stopping 46 shots Sunday. He's the primary reason they got one point when they probably shouldn't have.

The NHL added the shoot-out to showcase individual skills, an attempt at proving to novices that NHL hockey is as much an exercise in speed and grace as it is in physicality and grit.

I understood it then. I applauded the forward thinking then. But there's just something cheap about it now.

There's nothing wrong with perseverance making the point in the regular season.

Freep

Edited by Howard He Do It?!, 01 February 2010 - 06:38 AM.

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#2 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 06:40 AM

I still like them. You can still have them without having a dinky point for losing in overtime or a shootout.

0 points for a loss at any point in a game, no questions asked.
1 point for a win in a shooutout.
2 points for a win in overtime.
3 points for a win in regulation.

You get rid of your "parity" right there.

#3 interminded

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 06:43 AM

All this because we suck at shootouts ?
I heard no one complaining last year (10 SO, 6 wins).

Granted, the shootout isn't the prettiest solution to decide the game, but as long as it's not in the playoffs, it does serve its purpose.

Edited by interminded, 01 February 2010 - 06:44 AM.

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#4 stevkrause

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 06:52 AM

QUOTE (interminded @ February 1, 2010 - 06:43AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All this because we suck at shootouts ?
I heard no one complaining last year (10 SO, 6 wins).

Granted, the shootout isn't the prettiest solution to decide the game, but as long as it's not in the playoffs, it does serve its purpose.

all of this is ridiculous - NO team should be awarded for winning in a SO, while another teams gets nothing for LOSING in a SO - it is a TEAM GAME

The shootout is fun to watch and adds to excitement, and there is no reason to remove it - FOR REGULAR SEASON ONLY, however, simply put - ALL GAMES SHOULD BE WORTH THE SAME CUMULATIVE POINT VALUE.

Win in regulation or OT - 3 pts
Win in SO - 2pts
Loss in SO - 1 pt

This way teams are still basically docked a pt for winning a team game in a SO, and it encourages more OT wins

Go 4-4 for 5 mins, then 3-3 for another 5 - total of 10 min OT BEFORE the SO

problem solved.


All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#5 dat's sick

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 06:59 AM

Just increase the OT to 10 mins (but no 3-on-3 that's silly), that's the most fun part anyway and it would make SO's much less likely to happen.

#6 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 07:07 AM

QUOTE (SouthernWingsFan @ February 1, 2010 - 06:40AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I still like them. You can still have them without having a dinky point for losing in overtime or a shootout.

0 points for a loss at any point in a game, no questions asked.
1 point for a win in a shooutout.
2 points for a win in overtime.
3 points for a win in regulation.

You get rid of your "parity" right there.

This is a very interesting system. It would definitely encourage more offense in the waning minutes of a tied or close game during regulation and would heavily reward defensive play in a close game during regulation. Teams would be encouraged to take more risks in OT and not play it safe. Teams would try more and more to avoid OT and try their damnedest to avoid the shootout. The key to all of this is of course awarding no points to the loser. What a novel concept. You lose and get nothing. Someone should tell the NHL.

QUOTE (stevkrause @ February 1, 2010 - 06:52AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
all of this is ridiculous - NO team should be awarded for winning in a SO, while another teams gets nothing for LOSING in a SO - it is a TEAM GAME

The shootout is fun to watch and adds to excitement, and there is no reason to remove it - FOR REGULAR SEASON ONLY, however, simply put - ALL GAMES SHOULD BE WORTH THE SAME CUMULATIVE POINT VALUE.

Win in regulation or OT - 3 pts
Win in SO - 2pts
Loss in SO - 1 pt

This way teams are still basically docked a pt for winning a team game in a SO, and it encourages more OT wins

Go 4-4 for 5 mins, then 3-3 for another 5 - total of 10 min OT BEFORE the SO

problem solved.

The shootout for me adds stress and is a terrible way to lose. I'd much rather see the Wings get beat in regulation or OT. At least they lost to the opposing team. Rewarding points for losing is a bad idea and is just used to pad the standings and make them look closer than they actually are.

I also disagree with the inclusion of a 5 minute 3-on-3 OT period. It seems to gimmicky and does not closely mimic 5-on-5 play enough. 4-on-4 play still allows you to play some resemblance of the 5-on-5 game but increases the likelihood of scoring at the same time.

Edited by Howard He Do It?!, 01 February 2010 - 07:09 AM.

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#7 stevkrause

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 07:21 AM

QUOTE (Howard He Do It?! @ February 1, 2010 - 07:07AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is a very interesting system. It would definitely encourage more offense in the waning minutes of a tied or close game during regulation and would heavily reward defensive play in a close game during regulation. Teams would be encouraged to take more risks in OT and not play it safe. Teams would try more and more to avoid OT and try their damnedest to avoid the shootout. The key to all of this is of course awarding no points to the loser. What a novel concept. You lose and get nothing. Someone should tell the NHL.


The shootout for me adds stress and is a terrible way to lose. I'd much rather see the Wings get beat in regulation or OT. At least they lost to the opposing team. Rewarding points for losing is a bad idea and is just used to pad the standings and make them look closer than they actually are.

I also disagree with the inclusion of a 5 minute 3-on-3 OT period. It seems to gimmicky and does not closely mimic 5-on-5 play enough. 4-on-4 play still allows you to play some resemblance of the 5-on-5 game but increases the likelihood of scoring at the same time.

If I had it my way, it'd just be another 20 minute OT period 5-5, if no one scores - both teams get a pt and it's a tie - 2 pts win, 1 pt tie, 0pts loss...

Like it or not though, the shootout attracts attention and is good for the league - the only reason I even suggest the 3-3, is it allows the skill to shine and would GREATLY increase scoring chances, thus making games end in OT more than Shootout and it's still a team game that way... I agree 100% it's gimmicky - but it's also about ratings...

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#8 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 07:25 AM

QUOTE (SouthernWingsFan @ February 1, 2010 - 01:40PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I still like them. You can still have them without having a dinky point for losing in overtime or a shootout.

0 points for a loss at any point in a game, no questions asked.
1 point for a win in a shooutout.
2 points for a win in overtime.
3 points for a win in regulation.

You get rid of your "parity" right there.

As much as this would make sense the NHL will probably never switch to a 3 point system. I would like to see a W-L-XT (XT meaing a point gained in Extra Time via the SO or OTL) where a win in reg. or OT is 2 points, a loss in reg. or SO is 0 points, and a win in a shootout or a loss in OT is 1 point. That would make teams want to win in reg. and OT and avoid the SO.

So, it would go:
W in Regulation: 2 points
L in Regulation: 0 points

W in OT: 2 points
L in OT: 1 point

W in shoot-out: 1 point
L in SO: 0 points

Edited by Wings_Dynasty, 01 February 2010 - 07:42 AM.

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#9 mindfly

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 07:46 AM

And bring back the tie...

Remember...dear americans, tie exists in other parts of the world.. you know, 1-1, 2-2-, 3-3 etc, both teams scores the same amount of goals.... fair play.

#10 hardcoretom21

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 07:57 AM

Pittsburgh would like to keep the SO... And we know that what the Pens want, the Pens get with the league!


The shootout is one of Shanny's (and his competition committee) ideas.. In order to increase interest in fans. I was at the shootout against Mtl earlier in the year, my first ever, and seeing Datsyuk and Zata undress the goalie was absolutely fantastic!!!
Only breathing is more important than winning

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#11 stevkrause

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 08:10 AM

QUOTE (mindfly @ February 1, 2010 - 07:46AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And bring back the tie...

Remember...dear americans, tie exists in other parts of the world.. you know, 1-1, 2-2-, 3-3 etc, both teams scores the same amount of goals.... fair play.

as much as we'd love the game to JUST be played for the integrity of the game, we need to ALL be able to remove ourselves from the purist standpoint and look at it like a business - people that shell out money for tickets, viewers on TV, etc... want to walk away from a game with a winner and a loser.... this is a sport, but it is also entertainment and that's how the bills are paid at the end of the day...

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#12 mindfly

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 08:14 AM

QUOTE (stevkrause @ February 1, 2010 - 02:10PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
as much as we'd love the game to JUST be played for the integrity of the game, we need to ALL be able to remove ourselves from the purist standpoint and look at it like a business - people that shell out money for tickets, viewers on TV, etc... want to walk away from a game with a winner and a loser.... this is a sport, but it is also entertainment and that's how the bills are paid at the end of the day...

I guess This^ is what differs the north american sport culture from european... The whole atmosphere is much more capitalistic...In U.S there is a owner of a team, over here it's sport associations where the supporters of the club gets to vote who should become club president and whatnot...

Edited by mindfly, 01 February 2010 - 08:15 AM.


#13 vladdy16

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 08:52 AM

QUOTE (interminded @ February 1, 2010 - 06:43AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All this because we suck at shootouts ?
I heard no one complaining last year (10 SO, 6 wins).

Granted, the shootout isn't the prettiest solution to decide the game, but as long as it's not in the playoffs, it does serve its purpose.

Wrong. I've complained since they came up with the idea. Hockey is a team sport. You win as a team, you lose as a team. I'd like to see shootouts go the way of the glow puck. I don't care if the Wings win every single shootout they get into - it needs to go as far as I'm concerned.
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#14 Travis

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 09:02 AM

I agree that it's exciting, but it does sort of seem like a novelty after awhile.

Even my girlfriend commented after yesterday's game that, essentially, it wasn't Pittsburgh beating us - but they're SO shooters beating ours. Not any real revelation there but, when you think about it, it's a somewhat bitter pill to swallow.

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#15 edicius

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 09:08 AM

QUOTE (hardcoretom21 @ February 1, 2010 - 07:57AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pittsburgh would like to keep the SO... And we know that what the Pens want, the Pens get with the league!


Hey, they've got 14 points thanks to the shootout this season. That seven point differential may not make as much of a difference in the East, but if they were in the West? It would leave Pittsburgh TIED WITH DETROIT IN POINTS.

Think about that for a second.

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#16 Finnish Wing

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 09:19 AM

No shootout. 4 on 4 OT until a goal is scored.

0 points for loss in regulation
1 point for loss in OT
2 points for win in OT
3 points for win in regulation

Easy.

Shootouts are there to make the games shorter. We could always reduce the number of games to get rid of shootouts, but I don't think that is what people want.
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#17 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 09:35 AM

Using SouthernWingsFan's system, I calculated what the standings would look like in the West.

1. VAN (30-2-2-20) 96 PTS GP: 54
2. SJS (29-2-5-19) 96 PTS GP: 55
3. CHI (27-5-5-18) 96 PTS GP: 55
4. PHX (23-5-5-23) 84 PTS GP: 56
5. COL (25-0-5-24) 80 PTS GP: 54
6. LAK (23-1-9-22) 80 PTS GP: 55
7. NSH (23-3-4-24) 79 PTS GP: 54
8. CGY (22-2-3-28) 73 PTS GP: 55
9. MIN (19-4-4-28) 69 PTS GP: 55
10. DET (20-2-4-29) 68 PTS GP: 55
11. ANA (19-2-4-30) 65 PTS GP: 55
12. DAL (18-2-4-31) 62 PTS GP: 55
13. STL (18-2-4-31) 62 PTS GP: 55
14. CBJ (17-3-2-35) 59 PTS GP: 57
15. EDM (12-0-4-37) 40 PTS GP: 53

W-(OT/W)-(SO/W)-L

W= 3 PTS
OT/W= 2 PTS
SO/W= 1 PTS
L= 0 PTS

Compared to the current standings:

Edited by Howard He Do It?!, 01 February 2010 - 09:35 AM.

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#18 JPT

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 09:52 AM

I agree that the shootout is gimicky but do we really want the NHL to go back to a tie after OT?

I went to BU vs Cornell at Madison Square Garden not too long ago and what was a very exciting game that included a late comeback by BU ended up in a tie. It was very dissatisfying. Is the shootout gimicky? Yes. Is it exciting? Yes. Does it produce some nice highlights? Yes.

#19 Greatness=PavelDatsyuk

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 09:59 AM

I think it should be like this:
3 points for a regulation win
2 for a win in extra time
1 for a loss in extra time

This way its only giving out 3 points every game but a time gets more points for winning

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#20 ManLuv4Clears

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 10:01 AM

QUOTE (vladdy16 @ February 1, 2010 - 08:52AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wrong. I've complained since they came up with the idea. Hockey is a team sport. You win as a team, you lose as a team. I'd like to see shootouts go the way of the glow puck. I don't care if the Wings win every single shootout they get into - it needs to go as far as I'm concerned.

This pretty much sums up my feelings. I have never liked the shootout and never will because it takes away one of the most important aspects of the game. Defense. If I wanted to watch a skills "see what I can do" competition, I'd watch the NBA.





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