Ovi to pass the great one?

[stevkrause 1,247]

You're basically proving yourself wrong, they have nearly identical points per game averages (Crosby 1.35 Ovi 1.34) so if Crosby plays a few more seasons than AO then he will almost certainly finish with more points, assuming they're points per game averages stay relatively the same (and since we have an almost complete 5 season sample, that seems very likely). You make a good point that Crosby has been injured in the past although i wouldn't say he's injury "prone" but Ovechkin's prognosis is very sketchy as well: he only missed 4 games in his first 4 seasons which, when you play as rambunctiously as he does, is bound to take a toll sooner or later and i think we're saw the beginning of that with his injury last fall. Also just out of curiosity who are the 2 other current NHL players that you think will end up with more career points than Crosby?

I don't think Crosby's points per game will stay consistent, wheras I think AO's will actually only go up(really all opinion)

Like I said too, it all depends on injuries, because AO's reckless style makes him more likely to fall off due to injury than Crosby - but in a perfect world, where they both play the same games, over the same period... I think AO will score quite a few more...

I think Kovalchuk is going to go off over the next 5 years if he stays in NJ - so, him and I wouldn't be surprised to see Malkin with more pts than Crosby at the end of his career either...

[stevkrause 1,247]

Don't even try. Red Wing fans will never give Crosby credit. They are complete homer's when it comes to him. Just give it up.

I agree though, I believe Crosby has a better chance of a longer career than Ovechkin due to play style. Granted anything can happen.

even though I think he's a ******... I will give him credit - he is a damn good player and one of the top 3 in the game right now - but overall, I like AO and Kovalchuk's game better... I am pretty good at removing myself from a situation and looking at it with an un-biased opinion...

also, as I said earlier, I think Ovechkin's style will eventually be his undoing as well... on the same note, Crosby hasn't exactly been the model of durability either through his first 5 years...

[Carman 387]

even though I think he's a ******... I will give him credit - he is a damn good player and one of the top 3 in the game right now - but overall, I like AO and Kovalchuk's game better... I am pretty good at removing myself from a situation and looking at it with an un-biased opinion...

also, as I said earlier, I think Ovechkin's style will eventually be his undoing as well... on the same note, Crosby hasn't exactly been the model of durability either through his first 5 years...

That's fine, it's just once each player gets older Crosby's finesse passing game will still allow him to put up points. Where as Ovechkin's points will live and die by his pure physical domiance. ALTHOUGH Ovechkin is becoming a much better playmaker so we'll definitely see, but also Crosby is shooting a lot more as well.

It's pretty clear they are far and away the two best players.

Kovalchuk just isn't as dominate offensively like Ovechkin to make up for his lack of defensive game.

I just have Crosby/Ovechkin as the very best players. Malkin is up there, but he's so inconsitent it's very discouraging seeing him take games off...

[SuperCalaFilppulastic! 34]

http://espn.go.com/nhl/notebook/_/page/buc...-gretzky-debate

ESPN still has one guy that cares about hockey. Oh, and Melrose.

Why is everyone ignoring this link?

It pretty much shows that is reasonable to argue about Ovy breaking the goals record barring major injury.

Even if you take away the hypothetical "monster" 70 season and a few of the goals from each of the other ones, he could still break it.

I don't know, it seems pretty reasonable to me. Will he do it? I think it really depends on the next 3 or 4 seasons.

Points? Not a chance.

[henrik40 76]

Gretzky's numbers are on the level of video game numbers, so no.

[egroen 384]

Why is everyone ignoring this link?

It pretty much shows that is reasonable to argue about Ovy breaking the goals record barring major injury.

Even if you take away the hypothetical "monster" 70 season and a few of the goals from each of the other ones, he could still break it.

I don't know, it seems pretty reasonable to me. Will he do it? I think it really depends on the next 3 or 4 seasons.

Points? Not a chance.

It's a possibility... though I wonder what a 'forecast' for Gretzky would have looked like after his first 5 seasons goals were:

1) 51

2) 55

3) 92

4) 71

5) 87

1,200?

... or Mike Bossy:

1) 53

2) 69

3) 51

4) 68

5) 64

... or Brett Hull:

1) 32

2) 41

3) 72

4) 86

5) 70

... or Mario Lemieux:

1) 43

2) 48

3) 54

4) 70

5) 85

Edited February 8, 2010 by egroen

[Jericho613 74]

I hope Ovechkin does beat Gretzky's record. He plays the game hard just like Howe. Of course he's no Howe though. I do have alot of respect for Ovechkin, and if the Wings don't go far in the playoffs (I said If) then i'm gonna root for the Caps to take the cup this year.

[dragonballgtz 273]

LOL, whatever...

That whole cancer thing set him back along with his back problems. I think he was on pace to break/tie the goal record and points total the year he left for 2 months for cancer treatment.

I personally think if he was healthy he would of challenged Wayne's numbers.

[egroen 384]

That whole cancer thing set him back along with his back problems. I think he was on pace to break/tie the goal record and points total the year he left for 2 months for cancer treatment.

I personally think if he was healthy he would of challenged Wayne's numbers.

And I think if Wayne was healthy he would have challenged Gretzky's + Lemieux's real numbers.

Lemieux also benefitted from so much time off the ice... despite that, his PPG never topped Gretzky's, even at Mario's healthiest.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

no way ovechkin passes that record. Its a different league and a different generation.

[Guest ZetterbergFourty]

Whoever said that Ovechkin's style of play will catch up with him, I agree. He does play a really wild style of hockey and it will catch up with him if he continues to fly around the ice like a chimpanzee on skates. I dont think he'll break Wayne's records, even though I'd really like to see it happen.

Edit: Real unbreakable record - Ken Doraty's hat trick in OT in I believe it was January, 1934.

Edited February 8, 2010 by ZetterbergFourty

[Superman54 91]

It's unbelievable how some people think so little of the great one. He was a genius when it came to playmaking, and he scored like no other. He was so much ahead of everyone at the game, something I believe Ovy isn't. I think Crosby will be a better player in the end of their careers, and will get many more points then Ovy in the near future. Alexender is amazing, but I don't think he is going to get anywhere close to Gretzky's stats.

[stevkrause 1,247]

Whoever said that Ovechkin's style of play will catch up with him, I agree. He does play a really wild style of hockey and it will catch up with him if he continues to fly around the ice like a chimpanzee on skates. I dont think he'll break Wayne's records, even though I'd really like to see it happen.

Edit: Real unbreakable record - Ken Doraty's hat trick in OT in I believe it was January, 1934.

I'm sure if Bettman had his way, he'd find a way for Crosby to score 4 in OT

[dragonballgtz 273]

And I think if Wayne was healthy he would have challenged Gretzky's + Lemieux's real numbers.

Lemieux also benefitted from so much time off the ice... despite that, his PPG never topped Gretzky's, even at Mario's healthiest.

The way I see it Mario never really peaked out. He came close but the years he was coming close he missed games becasue of cancer and back issues.

[egroen 384]

The way I see it Mario never really peaked out. He came close but the years he was coming close he missed games becasue of cancer and back issues.

Playing full seasons, year after year after year, with full post-seasons takes a huge toll. Mario literally averaged 53 games a season, when he was not taking entire years off.

Sure... we'll never know, and maybe Eric Lindros could have beaten both of them.

I just do not feel it was very likely.

Edited February 8, 2010 by egroen

[stevkrause 1,247]

Playing full seasons, year after year after year, with full post-seasons takes a huge toll. Mario literally averaged 53 games a season, when he was not taking entire years off.

Sure... we'll never know, and maybe Eric Lindros could have beaten both of them.

I just do not feel it was very likely.

none of them could touch..........

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Your buddies must not know much about Gretzky if they actually had a conversation about this.

Ovechkin won't come close to either record.

[StevieY'sguy 1]

And I think if Wayne was healthy he would have challenged Gretzky's + Lemieux's real numbers.

Lemieux also benefitted from so much time off the ice... despite that, his PPG never topped Gretzky's, even at Mario's healthiest.

I agree with you on this topic, and i think Gretzky is far and away the greatest offensive player ever to play in the NHL (I'm one of the 5% or so of the population who thinks Bobby Orr is the best player ever) but you are incorrect, when Mario retired following the 96-97 season he had averaged 2.00 points per game over the course of his career as opposed to Gretzky's career mark of 1.92 ppg.

[egroen 384]

I agree with you on this topic, and i think Gretzky is far and away the greatest offensive player ever to play in the NHL (I'm one of the 5% or so of the population who thinks Bobby Orr is the best player ever) but you are incorrect, when Mario retired following the 96-97 season he had averaged 2.00 points per game over the course of his career as opposed to Gretzky's career mark of 1.92 ppg.

If Gretzky had retired at the same time as Lemieux first did, Wayne's PPG would have been higher than Mario's as well.

Of course playing a longer career is going to bring down your PPG.

After 12 seasons:

2.32 PPG -- Gretzky (and Wayne played a lot more games during those 12 seasons, to boot)

2.01 PPG -- Lemieux

Orr's prime is arguably better than Gretzky's (I would say yes), but if you factor career and playoffs into the equation, Gretzky (and Howe) blows him away.

Edited February 8, 2010 by egroen

[Guest Lidstromboli]

i wouldn't gamble on him passing gretzky

[Drake_Marcus 890]

The goal total is really the only one worth discussing. Points total, I won't even give a 0.1% chance, it's 0% chance of happening.

On the surface, the goal total is within reach and it actually doesn't look like it's all that difficult based on current pace, etc. However, the real issue here is scoring at that consistent pace and consistently staying healthy over a very long career. Those are the things that make getting there more difficult. Looking at Gretzky, after getting hit by Sutur from behind into the boards, his back was wrecked and he was not the same player since (this was at or just below the age of 30). You never know what will happen with Ovechkin.

If you want to compare stats at the same point in time, just for fun though (2 scenarios, both at 5 seasons and both at Ovechkin's current age - 24)

After 5 seasons:

Gretzky - 356 goals, 914 points

Ovechkin - 279 goals, 540 points (this assumes he scores 60 goals and 120pts this year, which may or may not happen)

At the age of 24:

Gretzky - 429 goals, 1,122 points

Ovechkin - 279 goals, 540 points

Probably also important to point out that while this is both at the age of 24, Gretzky would have just turned 24 and Ovechkin would be a few months away from 25.

Also note that Ovechkin's rookie year was delayed because of the lockout. So he'd have another season worth of production by now.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

If Gretzky had retired at the same time as Lemieux first did, Wayne's PPG would have been higher than Mario's as well.

Of course playing a longer career is going to bring down your PPG.

After 12 seasons:

2.32 PPG -- Gretzky (and Wayne played a lot more games during those 12 seasons, to boot)

2.01 PPG -- Lemieux

Orr's prime is arguably better than Gretzky's (I would say yes), but if you factor career and playoffs into the equation, Gretzky (and Howe) blows him away.

Lemieux's PPG was actually higher than Gretzky's until he came back from retirement.

[Guest ZetterbergFourty]

I'm sure if Bettman had his way, he'd find a way for Crosby to score 4 in OT

I'm sure Crosby could do it.

They'd have to turn OT back to non-sudden death style, 10 mins of play no matter what.

I hope bettman doesnt read these boards, might be giving him some ideas here

[egroen 384]

Lemieux's PPG was actually higher than Gretzky's until he came back from retirement.

Sure -- Mario's PPG in his first 12 seasons was better than Gretzky's career PPG of 20 seasons.

Gretzky's first 12 seasons was much higher, though.

[egroen 384]

Also note that Ovechkin's rookie year was delayed because of the lockout. So he'd have another season worth of production by now.

And Gretzky's first professional year doesn't 'count' because it was in the WHA.