Brandon Dubinsky calling Sidney Crosby a little baby

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Now now don't bring Ovechkin into this.

Questionable hits are a whole different matter and I have no problem with Ovechkin hitting all the time because that is what makes great hockey.

[StevieY'sguy 1]

Good thing Maltby has never once been the face of this franchise or the league then eh?

Show me the clip where an 18 year old Crosby ever campaigned himself to be the face of the league, cuz if it exists i sure haven't seen it. The kid grew up an amazing hockey player and in today's day and age (for better or worse) that comes with overly excessive hype. The guy worked his whole life to get into the NHL, he does so and is one of the best young talents to enter the league in years...meanwhile a down league looking for a player to build it's image around for the next decade or so basically had to choose between a politically correct, baby faced North American born kid or a scruffy, slobby looking Russian born player who was missing teeth and has an extremely flamboyant, "wildcard" attitude and lifestyle..naturally they went with the safe bet in Crosby...what was Crosby supposed to do?? Tell Bettman he didn't want to be on all of those posters and commercials because people like you might accuse the league of being biased if he someday ever won a Cup?? No one in their right mind would say no to that...including a player like Kirk Maltby who was never half of the player that Crosby already is.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

Show me the clip where an 18 year old Crosby ever campaigned himself to be the face of the league, cuz if it exists i sure haven't seen it. The kid grew up an amazing hockey player and in today's day and age (for better or worse) that comes with overly excessive hype. The guy worked his whole life to get into the NHL, he does so and is one of the best young talents to enter the league in years...meanwhile a down league looking for a player to build it's image around for the next decade or so basically had to choose between a politically correct, baby faced North American born kid or a scruffy, slobby looking Russian born player who was missing teeth and has an extremely flamboyant, "wildcard" attitude and lifestyle..naturally they went with the safe bet in Crosby...what was Crosby supposed to do?? Tell Bettman he didn't want to be on all of those posters and commercials because people like you might accuse the league of being biased if he someday ever won a Cup?? No one in their right mind would say no to that...including a player like Kirk Maltby who was never half of the player that Crosby already is.

Hmmmm me thinks thou doth protest too much.

[Guest scottj]

holy s*** i seriously stopped reading your s*** stevieysguy... you sound like such a homer for crosby

up to where i read you kept on bringing other people into it... and you're trying to convince somebody not to hate somebody else. ain't so bright huh?

go rub one out to crosby n get off this board please

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Show me the clip where an 18 year old Crosby ever campaigned himself to be the face of the league, cuz if it exists i sure haven't seen it. The kid grew up an amazing hockey player and in today's day and age (for better or worse) that comes with overly excessive hype. The guy worked his whole life to get into the NHL, he does so and is one of the best young talents to enter the league in years...meanwhile a down league looking for a player to build it's image around for the next decade or so basically had to choose between a politically correct, baby faced North American born kid or a scruffy, slobby looking Russian born player who was missing teeth and has an extremely flamboyant, "wildcard" attitude and lifestyle..naturally they went with the safe bet in Crosby...what was Crosby supposed to do?? Tell Bettman he didn't want to be on all of those posters and commercials because people like you might accuse the league of being biased if he someday ever won a Cup?? No one in their right mind would say no to that...including a player like Kirk Maltby who was never half of the player that Crosby already is.

Every iota of what you just said is completely irrelevant to the debate at hand. It doesn't matter what he wanted/wants in terms of his status as league image, and it never has or ever will... What you said is basically tantamount to violin music for the rich and famous... yawn.

He is making the salary and reaping the benefits of his stardom, and is therefore subject to the pitfalls of it too... Nobody put a gun to his head and said "hey, go make stupid commercials." Much like the anti-Capitals bias in the Canadian media (See: Milbury, Mike for more Capitals related Crow eating) Crosby too must deal with the criticism that stems from the over-analysis of his play and significance, but that's also hardly justification nor an excuse for any indiscretions. If anything, you should see the irony in your statements... you are here posting on the very medium and type of topic that caused this problem in the first place... the overcommitment of sports fans to something that is, for all practical purposes, completely irrelevant and useless; Hockey. So you're going to complain about the over-analyzing of a hockey player on a forum dedicated to over-analyzing a hockey team?

I hold Crosby to a higher standard because he reaps the benefits of being held to a higher standard. It makes no sense to in turn complain that those benefits come with downsides..

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

^ So basically it is okay to look into his actions much more so than any other player (and look into his very few dumb actions as a means to justify your hate toward him) simply because he didn't tell the media to leave him alone?

This is like hating the kid in elementary school who got the big fudge brownie for lunch and didn't decline to eat it.

I can only imagine the s*** storm that would have occurred had Crosby been the one fighting Gary Roberts in the 2008 playoffs with his gloves on instead of Datsyuk.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Doc Holliday

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

^ So basically it is okay to look into his actions much more so than any other player (and look into his very few dumb actions as a means to justify your hate toward him) simply because he didn't tell the media to leave him alone?

This is like hating the kid in elementary school who got the big fudge brownie for lunch and didn't decline to eat it.

I can only imagine the s*** storm that would have occurred had Crosby been the one fighting Gary Roberts in the 2008 playoffs with his gloves on instead of Datsyuk.

Again, he reaps the benefits of being a superstar player, and must deal with the scrutiny it invites. That in no way implies that others shouldn't be scrutinized, nor that none of his actions can be justified; merely that being over-analyzed is hardly an excuse, nor should it be. Really not sure what was unclear about that, or what was "hateful" about it either. I don't believe I've made a single anti-Crosby statement in this thread. Thanks for reading.

[StevieY'sguy 1]

Every iota of what you just said is completely irrelevant to the debate at hand. It doesn't matter what he wanted/wants in terms of his status as league image, and it never has or ever will... What you said is basically tantamount to violin music for the rich and famous... yawn.

He is making the salary and reaping the benefits of his stardom, and is therefore subject to the pitfalls of it too... Nobody put a gun to his head and said "hey, go make stupid commercials." Much like the anti-Capitals bias in the Canadian media (See: Milbury, Mike for more Capitals related Crow eating) Crosby too must deal with the criticism that stems from the over-analysis of his play and significance, but that's also hardly justification nor an excuse for any indiscretions. If anything, you should see the irony in your statements... you are here posting on the very medium and type of topic that caused this problem in the first place... the overcommitment of sports fans to something that is, for all practical purposes, completely irrelevant and useless; Hockey. So you're going to complain about the over-analyzing of a hockey player on a forum dedicated to over-analyzing a hockey team?

I hold Crosby to a higher standard because he reaps the benefits of being held to a higher standard. It makes no sense to in turn complain that those benefits come with downsides..

No...not at all really, I don't know where you come off saying that I'm complaining about overanalysis...I was just explaining that Crosby didn't do anything of behavioral significance to become the "face" of the league, it wasn't of his choosing, he didn't fill out an application, it was just a circumstantial effect of being the best young hockey player to come out of North America in a long time. Secondly as you basically pointed out, forums like these are the essence of overanalysis, so if i was so "against" overanalysis i wouldn't be here would I?? Lastly, even if i was against overanalysis I couldn't be critical of the majority of the posters on here and their opinion on Crosby because the things they are writing can't be considered analysis, it is mainly just jealousy/garbage/etc., much of it stemming from the fact that the Wings have faced off against Crosby's team the last 2 years and they hate how successful he has been at an early age (and also, i would suspect because the Wings have no one like him). If people say they don't like Crosby because they say he talks to the refs too much or they think he is overexposed then so be it, I don't share the same view but i can respect a profanity free comment like that....but for the idiots who just sit back and call Crosby a p*ssy, b*tch, cheap shot artist, etc. then I'm sorry but you're only making yourself look like an uneducated moron just like this Dubinsky hack...I hope this nobody enjoyed his 15 seconds of fame that his mouth got him because if he's relying on his hockey skills to get him attention than he's outta luck.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Again, he reaps the benefits of being a superstar player, and must deal with the scrutiny it invites. That in no way implies that others shouldn't be scrutinized, nor that none of his actions can be justified; merely that being over-analyzed is hardly an excuse, nor should it be. Really not sure what was unclear about that, or what was "hateful" about it either. I don't believe I've made a single anti-Crosby statement in this thread. Thanks for reading.

Being over-analyzed is going to hurt a player when he does things that every player in the league does. Situations like the one with Dubisnky happen all the time, but only for Crosby is there a response like the one Dubisnky makes. Why is that?Reputation. A reputation that causes every little mistake he makes to be looked into many times by people (the majority people who cannot stand the guy) and overblown to the point that over time it completely revises history (such as the whole "always a diver" belief).

Also, no need to bring in the condescending attitude.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Being over-analyzed is going to hurt a player when he does things that every player in the league does. Situations like the one with Dubisnky happen all the time, but only for Crosby is there a response like the one Dubisnky makes. Why is that?Reputation. A reputation that causes every little mistake he makes to be looked into many times by people (the majority people who cannot stand the guy) and overblown to the point that over time it completely revises history (such as the whole "always a diver" belief).

Also, no need to bring in the condescending attitude.

Sure, stereotypes can lead to things being assumed instead of earned... but there is truth to it too, much like there is truth to Pronger being a cheapshot artist, Yzerman being a good captain, or Ovechkin being a dangerous hitter. Things tend to be looked at through those lenses for a long time (ala big Bert always having the Moore shadow), but it doesn't mean that there is any justification to ignoring the offenses either, especially when they have not been particularly subjective or inconclusive either... Crosby has been involved in some undeniable acts that support his moniker, and so it will remain until he does something to transcend it (an MVP performance at these Olympics would silence a ton of the critics).

You really think if Datsyuk played a role in the thuggish McLean or Valabik fights, or the stop throwing hats instance, or any of the other incidents that Datsyuk's peers wouldn't take exception and express their dislike? This isn't exactly a case of mistaken identity. Yes, I agree, it is perpetuated by the media and fans, but my point has merely been that this admission doesn't trump the criticism.

[Marty Barry 230]

You f*** with Sid, you f*** witn Canada!

[lomekian 201]

Crosby carries on ince some of the personality issues you would expect from someone who has been hailed as the second coming since he was 14 and (although largely the result of the strong supporting cast when it comes to big games), he has to some degree proved it. Perhaps if his personality was more like the infectious enthusiasm and slight mentalism of Ovechkin or the incredibly rare humility of stevie y, we'd forgive him his priggish moments more easily. The fact is, despite his ability, he still has something of the kid at school who knew how good he was, and expected things to go his way, and complained when it wasn't. The difference is he can walk the walk, and so we can't even look forward to bumping into him in a bar 15 years later, and finding him bald, fat, disappointed and worrying how he'll feed his 3 kids by 3 mothers.

Bottom line is, if you are going to be bloody brilliant and know you are being projected as such, its best not to be too smug or precious about it unless you have an incredible amount of charisma. Ovie gets away with being super confident, a bit dirty and living the playboy life for much the same reason everyone loves Jonny Depp - No how jealous you may feel, he's unashamedly having so much fun that he's happy to invite you to share in his enjoyment.

That said, I still find him far less annoying/disturbing/embarassing/vommit inducing than Bettman, who always looks like he's auditioning for the role of a goblin from the Lord of the Rings.....

[Guest scottj]

so we can't even look forward to bumping into him in a bar 15 years later, and finding him bald, fat, disappointed and worrying how he'll feed his 3 kids by 3 mothers.

people look forward to that? haha

[Guest zackmorris]

Okay, well for starters I'm sure his peers get as much of the stereotype in their heads as you and I do when asked that question. Especially considering his first year in the NHL was a diving, pissed off whine-fest (and with all the media attention those actions were put under the microscope). But at the same time Iginla was considered the best leader in the league when that poll was made, despite his teams lack of success during his career. Reputation is key.

When did all of this happen?

Sometimes the rep is justified. And I saw it during an interview on The Score, and don't you remember when he was asked about the Hank play on him and he just downplayed it?

Doc, just stop. You're one of those people who needs to argue every day, no matter what for or against. It's really irritating to alot of people to put up with you jumping into every topic just to be contrary.

O.J. Simpson didn't murder those people when he was playing for the Buffalo Bills either but i doubt they'll be giving him a citizenship award for his time there anytime soon.

Way to tear it out of context. It's a good thing no one in this conversation has killed anyone before.

I like how you show zero support or explanation of how Maltby is "different".... He's "nowhere near Crosby's style of play"? this is getting to be ridiculously overboard, if you want to talk about superstars that play cheap hockey then talk about Ovechkin he is the one who has delivered knees and other cheap hits that have made other players miss time, Crosby hasn't.

Oh shut up, we're both Wings fans, we know how he's different. He doesn't whine to the media and is a standup individual. He doesn't yell at his teammates when he gets upset. He doesn't pout and have a bloated sense of entitlement and he's not the face of the league. And f*** you for making me explain something we both already know just because you don't want to admit you stretched an already stupid point.

As far as the league not being fair, maybe it is, maybe it isn't but alot of things in life aren't fair so I'm not going to let whining about it ruin my objective view of hockey...all I'm saying is if they Wings could have shut down MAX TALBOT in game 7 last June then they would've hoisted the Cup again even amidst all of these "biased factors" or whatever you like to cal them....but the bottom line is they couldn't and they didn't so let's move on

Yeah "let's move on" right after you've regurgitated your point for the third time. Lmao ok. Dude, think about it-organized crime and cheating has crept into every single mainstream sport whether we like it or even realize it or not. Hell, the mob has ties to professional rowing. Do you really think hockey is immune to even slightly trying to help one team win? Only the blind my friend.

[Guest zackmorris]

^ So basically it is okay to look into his actions much more so than any other player (and look into his very few dumb actions as a means to justify your hate toward him) simply because he didn't tell the media to leave him alone?

This is like hating the kid in elementary school who got the big fudge brownie for lunch and didn't decline to eat it.

I can only imagine the s*** storm that would have occurred had Crosby been the one fighting Gary Roberts in the 2008 playoffs with his gloves on instead of Datsyuk.

I'd applaud him. Datsyuk defended himself against a ******* piece of human s*** that for some reason in this country is paraded as a hero. Lest we forget that scums*** went after a player's head who had just come off of a concussion and had a history of doing that. But we just called it "passionate Canadian hockey".

He went after Pav because, as per typical Gary Robets, he figured he could unload on a soft little euro and he wouldn't fight back.

Good thing Pav popped him in the mouth and put him on his ass. I wouldn't care if Crosby did that under identical circumstances.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Oh we don't have players like that?? Kirk Maltby (when he actually played more that 6-7 minutes a game) was renowned around the league for cheap shotting people, whining and running his mouth but refusing to drop the gloves..he was the essence of a coward but because he plays for the Red Wings, it's filed under something other than that right? Yea you're right the Wings are all role models, no dirty players whatsoever...ask Steve Moore what his opinion is of Todd Bertuzzi, you'll be able to find him at home, cuz he sure as hell isn't playing hockey anymore thanks to one of our "role model" Red Wings....I'm not going to get into a full on debate with you because judging by your profanity-laced post your probably rather low on the sophistication scale and will just start making up more nonsensical excuses and barbaric comments...I'm a Red Wings fan too but the only difference between us is that i can admit that my team CHOKED when they had an oppurtunity to win another Cup and you can't; end of story.

Of course we're going to be biased for the Red Wings to a degree since we are Red Wings fans. Kinda seems logical there.

Crosby may not have asked for this stuff, but he got it. He gets too much attnetion, he whines more than necessary. Fellow NHLers themsleves said so. What more credible evidence do you need?

Why can't people that dislike him do so without getting a hard time from people like yourself?

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

The bold has nothing to do with what Crosby does. Also, the "whining" angle is ridiculously overblown.

But it plays a factor in disliking athletes and it basically means that people are sick and tired of hearing about these guys. That is why I mentioned players from other leagues that get an absurd amount of attention.

The whining angle may be used overzealously at times, but when your own peers/players in the NHL say you ***** and whine and moan the most, that has to count for something.

Crosby whines and complains. Let people dislike him without having to give them s**t or make them feel guilty about it.

[Guest scottj]

it seems like crosbys gettin more long-winded posts defending him than wings players do in this message board

[titanium2 867]

Can't you all see what's happening here?

Do you not understand that while we bicker amongst ourselves, Sauron's power grows?!?!?!

I mean... Crosby.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Sometimes the rep is justified. And I saw it during an interview on The Score, and don't you remember when he was asked about the Hank play on him and he just downplayed it?

Doc, just stop. You're one of those people who needs to argue every day, no matter what for or against. It's really irritating to alot of people to put up with you jumping into every topic just to be contrary.

I do remember the quote and i thought it was dumb of him to say it. I was actually like "really?" One of the reasons I really don't like the guy too much.

And I don't NEED to do anything. This is a discussion forum and I exercise my right to voice my opinion on anything, whether it is agreeing with someone or not (and I do plenty of both). Can you have a discussion with me without getting mad because I am "arguing" with you? Just once, Zack, I would just love for that to happen. It's a discussion for crying out loud. If you don't want to be part of it then don't respond. Easy peasy.

[Guest scottj]

does anybody have video of crosby saying that? i tried looking for it but couldn't find it

[StevieY'sguy 1]

Sometimes the rep is justified. And I saw it during an interview on The Score, and don't you remember when he was asked about the Hank play on him and he just downplayed it?

Doc, just stop. You're one of those people who needs to argue every day, no matter what for or against. It's really irritating to alot of people to put up with you jumping into every topic just to be contrary.

Way to tear it out of context. It's a good thing no one in this conversation has killed anyone before.

Oh shut up, we're both Wings fans, we know how he's different. He doesn't whine to the media and is a standup individual. He doesn't yell at his teammates when he gets upset. He doesn't pout and have a bloated sense of entitlement and he's not the face of the league. And f*** you for making me explain something we both already know just because you don't want to admit you stretched an already stupid point.

Yeah "let's move on" right after you've regurgitated your point for the third time. Lmao ok. Dude, think about it-organized crime and cheating has crept into every single mainstream sport whether we like it or even realize it or not. Hell, the mob has ties to professional rowing. Do you really think hockey is immune to even slightly trying to help one team win? Only the blind my friend.

Haha i gotta tell ya zack although we do not agree at all on this subject it's nice to see somebody so passionate about hockey that they would go through the trouble of arguing back and forth at the length that we have....I'll lay down my keyboard because neither one of us is going to give an inch on this issue...but i'll leave you with something I think we can both agree on...Go Wings! lol

[HockeyTownHouligan 57]

ok here is the deal on crosby, people like him because he is the kid next door. That is what the NHL is looking for in a "face" for their league. Is he the best in the league, no probably not. He pulls on the heart strings of all the sappy weak minded hockey fans who don't really know what to think of the sport yet. Real hockey fans cheer for seasoned veterans who have the missing teeth and the fully grown beards. We can all agree that he is a very skilled hockey player and we can also agree that he is a little ***** sometimes that whines and cries. We had a young star once i think his name was Steve Yzerman, but the difference was the demeanor between the two. Crosby is a walking Gatorade commercial who gives out the oh yea look at me face when he scores, that seems to erk people because they throw it in your face every two seconds during a game on NBC. Yzerman simply smiled and celebrated with his teammates like he did it 100000 times before and was in a quarter of the commercials and had more accomplishments than Crosby in a tougher league. I don't like him probably never will because they make him out to be this great thing and he is nothing more than a spoiled brat that the league thinks everyone likes but they actually don't they like Ovi better.

[Guest zackmorris]

^The problem with a guy like Crosby from a marketing perspective is he keeps people as casual fans or kills them.

He's bringing in children and that's a valuable market but he's not pulling in what Gretzky did, but all Bettman knows is to desperately try to recreate that hype he had with #99. But it's not the same.

Sid may interest a non-hockey fan, but when they start to watch more and more they see his attitude and either just drift away from the game again, or think all hockey players are like that. He's an interest killer among anyone but kids. No one likes whiny tantrum-throwing babies, and kids are sorry to say, too blind to see that yet. Either that happens or fans just keep casually "kinda watching now and again...maybe". That's not very good, either. He's also not a very exciting player to watch. I could name 10 players off the top of my head that'd generate more interest from the coveted "non-hockey fan". The things Crosby does can be appreciated by people like you or I, but guys like Kane, Datsyuk, Gaborik or Ovechkin are the players who will open the eyes and drop the jaws of people who don't know hockey. I remember my buddy at work watching a Wings game with me and Pav put on a through the legs dangle and passed it for a goal by, I think Cleary. He was amazed. He said he'd never seen that from other teams and he's been big on the Wings ever since.

I hate to bring up Ovechkin, but that guy is a marketing wet dream. With every passing minute that they don't devote more of their precious advertising dollars on him is proof the NHL is the most clueless league on the planet.

Edited February 15, 2010 by zackmorris

[Carman 387]

^The problem with a guy like Crosby from a marketing perspective is he keeps people as casual fans or kills them.

He's bringing in children and that's a valuable market but he's not pulling in what Gretzky did, but all Bettman knows is to desperately try to recreate that hype he had with #99. But it's not the same.

Sid may interest a non-hockey fan, but when they start to watch more and more they see his attitude and either just drift away from the game again, or think all hockey players are like that. He's an interest killer among anyone but kids. No one likes whiny tantrum-throwing babies, and kids are sorry to say, too blind to see that yet. Either that happens or fans just keep casually "kinda watching now and again...maybe". That's not very good, either. He's also not a very exciting player to watch. I could name 10 players off the top of my head that'd generate more interest from the coveted "non-hockey fan". The things Crosby does can be appreciated by people like you or I, but guys like Kane, Datsyuk, Gaborik or Ovechkin are the players who will open the eyes and drop the jaws of people who don't know hockey. I remember my buddy at work watching a Wings game with me and Pav put on a through the legs dangle and passed it for a goal by, I think Cleary. He was amazed. He said he'd never seen that from other teams and he's been big on the Wings ever since.

I hate to bring up Ovechkin, but that guy is a marketing wet dream. With every passing minute that they don't devote more of their precious advertising dollars on him is proof the NHL is the most clueless league on the planet.

Good job generalizing that every Crosby fan is new to the game.

I'll be sure to tell all my buddies that are playing or have played NCAA, AHL, JR.A, ECHL that they don't know the game because they think Crosby is a great player.