Sick of hearing Sidney Crosby's name

[toby91_ca 620]

Malkin is more important to the Pens than Crosby is. That's why Malkin won the Conn Smythe and he didn't. If Malkin was not playing that series, I think we would have beaten them. That's what an MVP is supposed to be.

The only reason more people know Crosby's ugly mug and name as opposed to anyone else in the league is because he's being marketed as if he were Coca-Cola. Think about it - Coke is ubiquitous. There isn't anyone on the planet that doesn't know that logo and what product it represents. Put him in commercials, interview him constantly, talk him up during other games, stick on the cover of video games; I'm surprised he doesn't have his own clothing line and cologne by now, although give it time.

The NHL is not treating Crosby like a person, they are treating him like a product. Over-saturation of the marketplace is always a concern when you have a company or a brand pushing one product onto consumers as opposed to any other. People will get sick of that product, they will turn away from that product and move toward others. It's only a matter of time before Crosby is the NHL's version of Crystal Pepsi.

Regardless of Malkin winning the Conn Smythe and you thinking that he's more important to the Pens, if you watch any Pens games, you'll notice pretty quickly that every team in the league (including the Wings) put their best defensive players out against Crosby, he's the guy they try to shutdown.

[toby91_ca 620]

Any one else find it funny that Crosby has hardly been able to break into the top 20 in goal scoring prior to this year? You would think he would be at least top 2 every year for how much hype he gets about being the "Great One".

I don't see any hype about him being the greatest goal scorer. You don't have to be one of the best goal scorers to be one of the best players. But just for reference, he's easily been in the top 20 in goal scorer every year he's been in the league, except the year he only played 53 games (still scored 24 goals). Not bad for a guy that isn't considered much of a goal scorer. He's also a guy that works his ass off every summer to improve, this past summer he focused on improving his shot and look at the results (then again, part of his goal total may have something to do with the lack of scoring ability of his linemates). He focused one summer on improving faceoffs, now he's one of the best. I understand hating the guy for whining, etc. (whether it's founded or not), but trying to rip for his actual on ice abilities is a lost cause.

Just out of interest, if you take his goal total/games played * 82 games, you get 41 goals....not really a total I would think suggests a player struggles to score goals.

[StevieY'sguy 1]

Any one else find it funny that Crosby has hardly been able to break into the top 20 in goal scoring prior to this year? You would think he would be at least top 2 every year for how much hype he gets about being the "Great One".

First of all, (not that I'm saying Crosby is the next Gretzky, he isn't) "The Great One"'s greatest talent was as a playmaker, not a goal scorer, just like Crosby's is...so I'd be interested to hear where you got the notion that he was known as a goal scorer? He's a playmaker who can score, not the other way around...although he isn't too shabby when he does decide to shoot the puck:

Crosby as of this moment has taken 1,165 shots on goal during his nearly 5 seasons in the NHL, with 174 goals as a result

Alex Ovechkin, supposedly the best "natural goal scorer in the league" took 1,263 shots in his first 3 seasons, which is 98 more than Crosby has in almost 5, and had 163 goals.

So when Crosby decides to shoot he is actually much more efficient than Ovechkin...If Crosby had taken as many shots in his career as Ovechkin and converted those shots with the same efficency as his career shot percentage (14.9%) than he would have more goals than Ovie does. Many will say that naturally the more you shoot, your shooting percentage will fall but there isn't any statistical evidence to support that assumption with Crosby, as this season he is well on pace to surpass his career high for shots on goal and is shooting 3.7% higher, at 18.6% than his career shot%... not to mention that his 3 highest shooting percentages came in the same seasons he posted his 3 highest SOG totals, so if anything, the more he shoots the more accurate he is (practice makes perfect i guess).

Ovechkin: ------------ Crosby's projected figures using OV's shot total and Crosby's career shot percentage:

05-06: 52 ----------- 05-06: 63

06-07: 46 ---------- 06-07: 58

07-08: 65 ---------- 07-08: 43*

08-09: 56 ---------- 08-09: 79

09-10: 42 --------- 09-10: 42 **

total: 261 ------- total:285

*- I adjusted Crosby's goal total, awarding him only 64% of his projected goal total, as he only played 64 % of the season

**- To avoid comprimising the integrity of the results I continued to apply Crosby's career shot % average to Ovechkin's SOG total for this season as well, even though currently Crosby is shooting at a much higher clip, and ironically he ended up with the same number of goals he currently has, as Ovechkin's shooting percentage this season is almost identical to Crosby's career clip.

So even though Crosby playing almost 30 less games than Ovie he still ends up with 24 more goals than Ovechkin in the projection....maybe he's not such a bad "natural goal scorer" either....

Edited February 17, 2010 by StevieY'sguy

[egroen 384]

Ovechkin takes more shots than... anyone.... ever (at least as long as the NHL has tracked shots).

To assume Crosby could simply match that is quite a stretch. You have to get open in order to get those shots off and create opportunities for yourself. Heck, half of Ovechkin's assists come off rebounds from his shots.

EDIT: Ha, did not notice who I was responding to -- we had this exact same conversation a little while ago and are not that far apart.

That said -- I think Hudler has a much higher shooting percentage than Crosby, but that does not make him a better natural goal scorer.

Edited February 18, 2010 by egroen

[Lidstrom for life 20]

They are indisputably the best two hockey players in the world right now. Not such a stretch for the media to focus their attention on two players who are as dominant as they are.

No. They are not indisputably the two best hockey players in the world and even if they were it would still be annoying for the media to focus solely on them.

[Original-Six 254]

I'll let Datsyuk know that he can't be a great player either then.

Btw I'm loving all the Crosby tears. They sustain me.

Im not saying Crosby is not a great player, But considering he is hyped as the best player in the history of the universe when he hardly breaks into the top 20 in goal scoring is ummm......overrated?

[edicius 3,269]

At least he doesn't have his own website like Zetterberg and Pronger do.

Yes, he does.

It's called NHL.com.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

No. They are not indisputably the two best hockey players in the world and even if they were it would still be annoying for the media to focus solely on them.

Yes they are.

Show me someone who has done what those two have in the same span of time (including this season and the playoffs).

Original-Six: Crosby was hyped up as the "Next one" before his rookie year, and since then that notion has been quickly been rid of for its ridiculousness. Crosby is not going to get even close to what Gretzky did. Nobody in our lifetimes will.

Also this is his placement in goal scoring since his rookie year

T-12th with 39 goals

T-16th with 36 goals

T-64th with 24 goals (played only 53 games that year due to injury)

T-20th with 33 goals

T-1st (currently) with 42 goals.

I don't think he is that bad when he is getting the point totals he does with the linemates he does. Shows that both he and Ovechkin perform whether or not they have quality linemates.

[StevieY'sguy 1]

Ovechkin takes more shots than... anyone.... ever (at least as long as the NHL has tracked shots).

To assume Crosby could simply match that is quite a stretch. You have to get open in order to get those shots off and create opportunities for yourself. Heck, half of Ovechkin's assists come off rebounds from his shots.

EDIT: Ha, did not notice who I was responding to -- we had this exact same conversation a little while ago and are not that far apart.

That said -- I think Hudler has a much higher shooting percentage than Crosby, but that does not make him a better natural goal scorer.

Haha i thought I might be hearing from you...yes we have very similar stances on this issue and as you know, i don't think that shooting percentage is the sole indicator of goal scoring ability but some folks on here let their hatred of Crosby lead them to say such stupid things that I had to go out of the way to show them that Crosby in spite of the fact that he plays for the Penguins and is on TV too much, is actually a pretty good player.

[king_malice 17]

Yes, he does.

It's called NHL.com.

ZING!!!! LOL

[egroen 384]

Yes they are.

Show me someone who has done what those two have in the same span of time (including this season and the playoffs).

Original-Six: Crosby was hyped up as the "Next one" before his rookie year, and since then that notion has been quickly been rid of for its ridiculousness. Crosby is not going to get even close to what Gretzky did. Nobody in our lifetimes will.

Also this is his placement in goal scoring since his rookie year

T-12th with 39 goals

T-16th with 36 goals

T-64th with 24 goals (played only 53 games that year due to injury)

T-20th with 33 goals

T-1st (currently) with 42 goals.

I don't think he is that bad when he is getting the point totals he does with the linemates he does. Shows that both he and Ovechkin perform whether or not they have quality linemates.

I agree that Crosby deserves kudos for producing with some questionable linemates over the years, but so has Ovechkin - 52 goals and 106 points his rookie year followed by another 92 points playing with Dainius Zubrus and Chris Clark (those two's production skyrocketed those years, not surprisingly - he actually made Zubrus a fantasy pick).

EDIT: I misread that - thought you were implying Crosby was the only one to have subpar linemates!

Edited February 18, 2010 by egroen

[Jaymister 71]

I totally agree with the first poster. It's even hard for me to cheer for Canada at the Olympics now because of that little whiner, not to mention having the two Duck punks on the team

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

But, what if he had been born in the United States?

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I agree that Crosby deserves kudos for producing with some questionable linemates over the years, but so has Ovechkin - 52 goals and 106 points his rookie year followed by another 92 points playing with Dainius Zubrus and Chris Clark (those two's production skyrocketed those years, not surprisingly - he actually made Zubrus a fantasy pick).

EDIT: I misread that - thought you were implying Crosby was the only one to have subpar linemates!

Yup. Ovechkin will score with or without Backstrom. Backstrom is just icing on the cake.

I also forgot to mention that Original-six is flat out wrong in the "Crosby hardly breaks the top 20" argument. He has been in the top 20 every single year except for the 07-08 season, in which he played 53 games.

[Original-Six 254]

I also forgot to mention that Original-six is flat out wrong in the "Crosby hardly breaks the top 20" argument. He has been in the top 20 every single year except for the 07-08 season, in which he played 53 games.

Yes he has been in the top 20 but not by much until this season. I may of exaggerated a little but you get my point.

T-12th with 39 goals

T-16th with 36 goals

T-64th with 24 goals (played only 53 games that year due to injury)

T-20th with 33 goals

I wouldn't say 12, 16 and 20 are "Flat out wrong" from hardly making it into the top 20.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Yes he has been in the top 20 but not by much until this season. I may of exaggerated a little but you get my point.

T-12th with 39 goals

T-16th with 36 goals

T-64th with 24 goals (played only 53 games that year due to injury)

T-20th with 33 goals

I wouldn't say 12, 16 and 20 are "Flat out wrong" from hardly making it into the top 20.

But he has always made it into the top 20 in goal scoring, save one year where he played 53 games. Unless you were saying he "barely cracks the top 20 each season."

I don't see whats wrong with that anyways considering Crosby has been a playmaker (not so much this year) in the NHL. Joe Thornton's first 90 assist season only came with 29 goals. His second with 22. That's normally what happens with playmakers.

[Original-Six 254]

I know hes a good playmaker but I think people comparing Crosbys goal scoring to players like Ovechkin has been a joke (With this season being a exception). Crosby hasn’t even finished in the top 10 until this season and some years Ovi has scored almost twice as many goals.

That’s where a lot of the hatred for Crosby comes from. He was always hyped up as a top goal scorer even when he could hardly crack the top 20. I mean come on that’s like Lebron James with all his media attention hype etc… not even being a top 10 scoring player in the NBA

Edited February 18, 2010 by Original-Six

[StevieY'sguy 1]

I know hes a good playmaker but I think people comparing Crosbys goal scoring to players like Ovechkin has been a joke (With this season being a exception). Crosby hasn’t even finished in the top 10 until this season and some years Ovi has scored almost twice as many goals.

That’s where a lot of the hatred for Crosby comes from. He was always hyped up as a top goal scorer even when he could hardly crack the top 20. I mean come on that’s like Lebron James with all his media attention hype etc… not even being a top 10 scoring player in the NBA

Crosby has never been hyped as a goal scorer on Ovechkin's level...anyone who thinks that obviously doesn't pay enough attention to hockey, he's known as a playmaker first and foremost just like Thornton.....BTW, you can have hype and not be a goal scorer...to further your NBA example, Magic Johnson is one of the most famous NBA players ever and he was never a top tier scorer either

Edited February 18, 2010 by StevieY'sguy

[Original-Six 254]

Crosby has never been hyped as a goal scorer on Ovechkin's level...

lol.....

Edited February 24, 2010 by Original-Six

[StevieY'sguy 1]

lol.....

Yea, really....why don't you show me a reputable hockey source that labels him as a goal scorer moreso than a playmaker instead of putting up a picture of a bird?

[Guest zackmorris]

Yea, really....why don't you show me a reputable hockey source that labels him as a goal scorer moreso than a playmaker instead of putting up a picture of a bird?

Coming from you that's hilarious. I've seen you post a one sentence rebuttal of "you're a ****** bag" and about 3 replies later, accuse someone of not addressing points and resorting to name calling. Pot...kettle....black...you know.

Edited February 18, 2010 by zackmorris

[StevieY'sguy 1]

Coming from you that's hilarious. I've seen you post a one sentence rebuttal of "you're a ****** bag" and about 3 replies later, accuse someone of not addressing points and resorting to name calling. Pot...kettle....black...you know.

That would make a ton of sense if I was getting on him for calling names but sense he didn't call anybody a name and i didn't get after him for name calling, it doesn't...better luck next year buddy

[Guest scottj]

...

if anybody's gonna make a sidney crosby thread please title it something else please so those same guys stop coming in here making a rant thread into a huge debate... just like the last ******* sidney thread

[Guest zackmorris]

That would make a ton of sense if I was getting on him for calling names but sense he didn't call anybody a name and i didn't get after him for name calling, it doesn't...better luck next year buddy

You didn't like that he didn't address your point seriously and instead posted a picture of a bird. Which was f***in funny by the way, lighten up. I pointed out that you did the exact same thing in the Dubinksy thread. Deal with it, it's true.

Anyway, Crosby has probably been mentioned by someone, somewhere as a scoring threat. Who cares if buddy can't track down a link to someone saying it? Fact is he's not universally seen as the scorer Ovechkin is and rightly so, he's not. But to suggest no one thinks Crosby can score like he is now is insane, because he can and I'm sure someone has said it.

[Original-Six 254]

Yea, really....why don't you show me a reputable hockey source that labels him as a goal scorer moreso than a playmaker instead of putting up a picture of a bird?

Dude all you have to do it watch a Pens game. Especially if they are playing the Caps.....