Lidstrom

[Reds4Life 51]

I've seen Lidstrom take more penalties this year than usual

Not possible.

This season : 24 PIM

08 : 30 PIM

07 : 40

06 : 46

05 : 50

get burned by forwards more than ever

His defensive game is still great, he just has less points this year.

[2guns 10]

Not possible.

This season : 24 PIM

08 : 30 PIM

07 : 40

06 : 46

05 : 50

His defensive game is still great, he just has less points this year.

I knew someone would come out and throw stats at me. LOL.

I don't care about stats, I care about what I see. Lidstrom looks slower and less than he used to be. Not like that's terrible, the guy is getting older after all.

[Reds4Life 51]

I knew someone would come out and throw stats at me. LOL.

I don't care about stats, I care about what I see. Lidstrom looks slower and less than he used to be. Not like that's terrible, the guy is getting older after all.

Well, he took 12 minor penalties in 81 games, so I really do not understand how could you possibly see him take more penalties than usual.

Yeah, he is slower obviously, but despite that, he is still by far the best defensive defenseman Wings have.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Orr being the best of all time is questionable, and here's why:

Orr put up huge offensive numbers, yes. But he was not dominant defensively like Lidstrom is. He was good defensively, but not dominant. He played, to basically say it, like a star offensive forward who was good defensively.

Very few defensemen have EVER been able to put up the kind of offensive performances Orr did, and none of them were as consistently dominant offensively, nor as good defensively. However, Lidstrom has been extremely dominant offensively in his own right, while being one of if not the League's best defensive player over his entire career.

Other defensemen who could make a valid argument towards that position are Raymond Bourque and Doug Harvey. Bourque was a First-team or Second-Team All-Star for seventeen consecutive years from the start of his career. That's an unbelievable achievement. He was incredible offensively, and was very good defensively. Harvey was the dominant defenseman of his era as well, and was also extremely good at both ends. I would have included Brad Park, but he always ended up second to Orr, so it would be hard to argue him as the best ahead of Orr.

But ultimately, we all know it that it really comes down to Orr or Lidstrom.

Orr has a lot of flashy, memorable offensive plays such as the 'Superman' goal where he scores and then basically jumps into the air as he is tripped, but how many times did anyone here see him make amazing defensive plays like we have seen Lidstrom do over and over and over again? Not terribly often. Good defensively, not great.

Considering it is arguable that Bourque, Harvey, and Shore are better than Lidstrom, there is no way you can even consider Lids and Orr to be at the same skillset. Not ******* possible.

Bobby Orr was the best at both ends of the ice. He was arguably the most dominant PLAYER to play the game. Nobody even comes close.

[HelmerFan 28]

Lids is gone soon. This year, next year, its inevitable.

When losing a player like Nick, you have to look at the up swing. If he retires this year, that's 7.5 mill off the books.

That kind of money in the hands of Kenny (or most GMs ) can buy a great player or 2.

The team will look different when he is gone but its not the end of the wings, not by a long shot.

We have some good young D prospects. we will have money off the books and when Raffies contract comes up, we should have a few more mil off the books.

Transition years are scary, but the possibility's are exciting.

[T.OWingsFan 7]

Detroit didn't win until after they acquired Yzerman

Detroit didn't win until after they acquired Osgood

Detroit didn't win until after they acquired Vernon

Detroit didn't win until after they acquired Konstantinov

Detroit didn't win until after they acquired Fedorov

Detroit didn't win until after they acquired Murphy

Detroit didn't win until after they acquired Shanahan

Detroit didn't win until after they acquired Kozlov

Detroit didn't win until after they acquired Larionov

Detroit didn't win until after they acquired Fetisov

Detroit didn't win until after they acquired Bowman

Nick is possibly the greatest defenseman of all-time.

Just sayin you can't basically imply "the Wings had no chance at winning the Cup without Nick" because as good as he has been, it's not true.

Okay everyone listen up.

We've iced from GREAT teams over the years and have since about 1999 been projected to "fall off". Too old, too soft, too slow they said. Shanahan left, Fedorov left, we lost guys like Konstantinov, and Captain Steve Yzerman.

Yet somehow we've managed to not only stay competitive, but WIN too. How have we done this?

Because the cold hard fact is that Niklas Lidstrom has been Detroit's MVP, above ALL the other guys, including Steve Yzerman. Lidstrom's game makes every player from the goalie behind him, to his defensive partner, to all 3 forwards better and easier.

Now we were good enough a number of years to win the cups we did. Would we have won 4 in 10 seasons? Nope. Not without Nik.

Bobby Orr

Niklas Lidstrom

Doug Harvery

IMO.

Edited April 11, 2010 by T.OWingsFan

[titanium2 867]

Okay everyone listen up.

We've iced from GREAT teams over the years and have since about 1999 been projected to "fall off". Too old, too soft, too slow they said. Shanahan left, Fedorov left, we lost guys like Konstantinov, and Captain Steve Yzerman.

Yet somehow we've managed to not only stay competitive, but WIN too. How have we done this?

Because the cold hard fact is that Niklas Lidstrom has been Detroit's MVP, above ALL the other guys, including Steve Yzerman. Lidstrom's game makes every player from the goalie behind him, to his defensive partner, to all 3 forwards better and easier.

Now we were good enough a number of years to win the cups we did. Would we have won 4 in 10 seasons? Nope. Not without Nik.

Bobby Orr

Niklas Lidstrom

Doug Harvery

IMO.

I agree. My hope is that somehow the brass finds a way to get a franchise quality dman in soon. Someone who can handle the #1 spot in Nick's place. That's a very, very tough task. I know I can't think of anyone I'd feel comfortable stepping into that spot.

[T.OWingsFan 7]

I knew someone would come out and throw stats at me. LOL.

I don't care about stats, I care about what I see. Lidstrom looks slower and less than he used to be. Not like that's terrible, the guy is getting older after all.

Of course you don't care about stats which prove you're wrong.

Nik's game has never been about speed but positioning and the thing about that is, it depends far less on physicality and speed than it does your brain.

And let me just say, its a TRAVESTY that Nik has never won a Hart Trophy. When he retires and Detroit falls (we will without him), then and only then will the writers, commentators etc acknowledge him as the MVP of the best team of the last 20 seasons. They'll want to posthumously award him one. His no-flash game doesn't stand out enough to top guys like OV.....that is until he's no longer there.

Then you notice how much of an MVP he is.

Edited April 11, 2010 by T.OWingsFan

[titanium2 867]

Consider that when Lidstrom was on the ice at even strength, Detroit outscored its opponent this season at a rate of 2.96 goals a game to 2.24. When he wasn’t on the ice, the Wings were outscored 2.44 to 1.90.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/is-this-lidstroms-last-run/article1542643/

I wish I could have the training to notice all of the subtle details in his game that make him so great.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Defensive parings:

Rafalski-Kronwall

Stuart-Lilja

Ericsson-Lebda

Ugh...

[titanium2 867]

Defensive parings:

Rafalski-Kronwall

Stuart-Lilja

Ericsson-Lebda

Ugh...

Well Babs would probably keep Stewie and Kronor together. Maybe have Rafalski with Lilja since he's the most defensively responsible among the rest of them.

But I get your main point. The defense corps looks flat out ugly without Nick there. I mean, even if we were to imagine the Wings stealing away someone like Chara or Doughty it still doesn't look right. Nick is one of a kind.

Hopefully some defenseman somewhere with similar intelligence and subtleties to his game is being taken for granted and doesn't get a lot of ice time so he slips through the cracks and gets picked up by our friend Hakan Andersson!

[Spongewingredpants 75]

It's OK to say it: He IS the best D-man of all time.

never heard of a d-man named Orr eh ;-)

[Rockitman 11]

Lidstrom will definitely be back next season.... which is exactly what I'll be saying to myself 5 years from now when I'm rocking back and forth in a padded room, having lost it and retreated to an imaginary world where #5 plays for the Red Wings forever.

But seriously, he'll be back.

lol Its nice to know someone else has the same feeling about their future...

[titanium2 867]

But seriously, he'll be back.

I'm not as confident in his return as you. Everybody on LGW wants to argue about his cap hit. At this point I just want to know for sure that he'll come back and worry about the cap hit later.

[donfishmaster 62]

Kind of depressing to think that the Red Wings will probably have to wait 50-75 years to get another D the caliber of Nick.

never heard of a d-man named Orr eh ;-)

You're right...only being blessed with (arguably) the second or third greatest D-man in the entire history of hockey means we got really fricking SCREWED!

[VM1138 1,921]

Kind of depressing to think that the Red Wings will probably have to wait 50-75 years to get another D the caliber of Nick.

You're right...only being blessed with (arguably) the second or third greatest D-man in the entire history of hockey means we got really fricking SCREWED!

I like to think he's the best. Nothing against Orr, obviously, but Lidstrom was an iron man at the NHL level for a very long time and has been the rock for this team. He's been unflappable in his tenure here.

[Shaman 713]

*Plugs ears* LIDS CAN NEVER RETIRE! ITS IMPOSSIBLE!

I really can't imagine the Wings without Lids, hes the heart and soul of the team... I know its just a matter of time, but, I just hope this year isn't the year.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

i kind of can't wait to see how it all turns out

hopefully it's an entertaining mess

Of all thoughts that have spun around my mind regarding Lidstrom retiring, "can't wait to see how it all turns out" was the furthest from one of them. While I don't see the Wings' style of play changing due his retirement, it'll still be a massive blow to this team.

Defensive parings:

Rafalski-Kronwall

Stuart-Lilja

Ericsson-Lebda

Ugh...

Of course those pairings don't look ideal but keep in mind if Lidstrom does retire, Kenny and Co. *will* bring in a talented replacement of atleast Kronwall-quality or better.

[toby91_ca 620]

never heard of a d-man named Orr eh ;-)

Here's the scary thing: Lidstrom won his first Norris trophy at the age of 31, Orr was essentially done at the age of 27 (when most players are just hitting their prime). At the age of 27, he had accumulated 8 Norris trophies. He played a handful of games over the next few years (36) before officially retiring at the age of 30.

I think the fact that Orr's career was cut short is a bit of a knock against him in terms of best ever, but he is still clearly the best defenseman of all time in my eyes.

[RedWingAbner 13]

Um, are we forgetting that we have Derek Meech? Problem solved.