The Hart Trophy

[Barrie 900]

throw Buffalo in the same category. No way they get 3rd seed without Miller.

Exactly the reason why I think Miller should win it. Ov, Sedin, and Crosby all had great seasons, but they are where they should be in the standings. Buffalo was a surprise, and Miller was the main reason.

[crotty99 302]

He would be very deserving, I just prefer skaters to win the MVP over goalies. I don't really know why

Actually, speaking of goal tenders. Howard has been just as important to us as miller to the sabres. Millers numbers are obviously better though. I really feel Howard going to win the Calder

Edited April 12, 2010 by crotty99

[Barrie 900]

I just prefer skaters to win the MVP over goalies. I don't really know why

I understand the argument, it's like Pitchers winning the MVP award in Baseball... If it's not a common occurrence, I really don't have a problem with it. Hasek was the last goalie to win the Hart correct? So it's been over 10 years.

[crotty99 302]

Yes pretty sure that's right. What about defenders? Who was the last one to win the hart?

[Barrie 900]

Yes pretty sure that's right. What about defenders? Who was the last one to win the hart?

Pronger in 99-00?

Oh wait, 2001-02 Theodore may have won the Hart.

[Carman 387]

Yes pretty sure that's right. What about defenders? Who was the last one to win the hart?

Pronger in 1999-2000

I just don't think any goalie has been dominate enough to win the Vezina+Hart.

Miller had a little shaky stretch and numbers are absolutely breathtaking this year.

Just my two cents though.

[Barrie 900]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=426028

Here's a full list. Yea Pronger was the last D to win it 99-00, and Theodore won in 01-02.

I just don't think any goalie has been dominate enough to win the Vezina+Hart.

Miller had a little shaky stretch and numbers are absolutely breathtaking this year.

Just my two cents though.

Nothing wrong with that. It's tough to deny the Hart to one of 50 goal scorers this year.

It should be a very close vote!

Edited April 12, 2010 by Barrie

[crotty99 302]

Theodore and pronger have won the hart and lidstrom has not?....Jesus Christ.

[Pepist 3]

Sedin had the same points per minute as Ovechkin, but get this: he had 21 points more than anyone else in the western conference. I'd say that is impressive.

[dat's sick 1,002]

Crosby has been very poor away from home and played terrible whenever Malkin has been out of the lineup. Not a Hart Trophy winner imo.

Henrik Sedin or Bryzgalov. I lean towards Sedin. He's just blown away all expectations.

[Reds4Life 51]

Crosby had 9 points in last 2 games against Islanders. Ovechkin plays in weakest division in the NHL.

Neither deserve the Hart trophy.

[crotty99 302]

Crosby had 9 points in last 2 games against Islanders. Ovechkin plays in weakest division in the NHL.

Neither deserve the Hart trophy.

Yes two games against the Islanders disqualify Sid from Hart contention. If you didn't notice the pens only just managed to win that game in OT.

Pens might not even be in the playoffs if it weren't for Sid's play. He definitely deserves it.

[teebo 22]

i hope henrik wins, but i think crosby will.

[CopenhagenWing 38]

Sedin should win.

[toby91_ca 620]

Of course they will improve the players around them but it still takes a certain type of player. Backstrom would be a star center with or with out Ovy.

I just feel that the Capitals wouldn't fall apart without Ovechkin. Semin has 40 goals i believe?

The pens would have been in serious trouble without Crosby this season, throw Buffalo in the same category. No way they get 3rd seed without Miller.

For what it's worth:

Washington record without Ovechkin this year = 7-2-1 (ever so slightly better than with him)

His linemates:

Backstrom - ppg without Ovechkin in the lineup = 1.40 (1.23 with Ovechkin)

Knuble - ppg without Ovechkin in the lineup = 1.00 (0.76 with Ovechkin)

I think Ovechkin probably deserves the Pearson, but I just don't see him as the MVP, a lot of which has to do with the above, along with this:

Nicklas Backstrom - 82gp 33g 68a 101pts

Alexander Semin - 73gp 40g 44a 84pts

Mike Green - 75gp 19g 57a 76pts

Brooks Laich - 78gp 25g 34a 59pts

Mike Knuble - 69gp 29g 24a 53pts

Tomas Fleischmann - 69gp 23g 28a 51pts

I have a hard time giving Sedin the Pearson simply because his brother is just as good, but I also have a hard time not including him in the hunt for the Hart, he did lead the league in pts and he did show that he doesn't just get the points because of his brother, he kept the same pace while his brother was gone. Can't ignore the 2 goalies and can't ignore Crosby (32pts more than #2 on his team, 59pts better than #3 and +/- and goals way better than those 2 as well. Can you ignore his league leading 8 shootout goals? I wish you could, but not sure you can).

So, when looking at it closely, I don't think I would be a complete idiot for excluding Ovechkin from the top 3 regarding Hart voting. I think it's just too close to call this year. In other years, I probably wouldn't have been nit picking because the winner is generally more clear cut.

[crotty99 302]

For what it's worth:

Washington record without Ovechkin this year = 7-2-1 (ever so slightly better than with him)

His linemates:

Backstrom - ppg without Ovechkin in the lineup = 1.40 (1.23 with Ovechkin)

Knuble - ppg without Ovechkin in the lineup = 1.00 (0.76 with Ovechkin)

I think Ovechkin probably deserves the Pearson, but I just don't see him as the MVP, a lot of which has to do with the above, along with this:

Nicklas Backstrom - 82gp 33g 68a 101pts

Alexander Semin - 73gp 40g 44a 84pts

Mike Green - 75gp 19g 57a 76pts

Brooks Laich - 78gp 25g 34a 59pts

Mike Knuble - 69gp 29g 24a 53pts

Tomas Fleischmann - 69gp 23g 28a 51pts

I have a hard time giving Sedin the Pearson simply because his brother is just as good, but I also have a hard time not including him in the hunt for the Hart, he did lead the league in pts and he did show that he doesn't just get the points because of his brother, he kept the same pace while his brother was gone. Can't ignore the 2 goalies and can't ignore Crosby (32pts more than #2 on his team, 59pts better than #3 and +/- and goals way better than those 2 as well. Can you ignore his league leading 8 shootout goals? I wish you could, but not sure you can).

So, when looking at it closely, I don't think I would be a complete idiot for excluding Ovechkin from the top 3 regarding Hart voting. I think it's just too close to call this year. In other years, I probably wouldn't have been nit picking because the winner is generally more clear cut.

Couldn't have said it any better

[Travis 576]

My guess is Crosby. Sedin has a strong case, as does Ovechkin - but Crosby exploded this year.

[Finnish Wing 110]

Crosby has been very poor away from home and played terrible whenever Malkin has been out of the lineup. Not a Hart Trophy winner imo.

Henrik Sedin or Bryzgalov. I lean towards Sedin. He's just blown away all expectations.

How can you possibly say that Henrik should win it?

Even though Daniel has been injured, Henrik would still have much less points without him. I just can't give an MVP award to a 1/2 of a duo like that.

Crosby or Miller it is now. Ovechkin would be there if it was given for the BEST player in the league as he has missed 9 games. But those missed games hurt him when its about the MVP. Also, I don't see how Bryzgalov could win it as he is basically just a Miller Lite. IMO that Buffalo team don't look that much better than Phoenix. They both have about the same number of points also. Miller has better stats of the two so no chance for Bryzgalov to win it.

[toby91_ca 620]

How can you possibly say that Henrik should win it?

Even though Daniel has been injured, Henrik would still have much less points without him. I just can't give an MVP award to a 1/2 of a duo like that.

Crosby or Miller it is now. Ovechkin would be there if it was given for the BEST player in the league as he has missed 9 games. But those missed games hurt him when its about the MVP. Also, I don't see how Bryzgalov could win it as he is basically just a Miller Lite. IMO that Buffalo team don't look that much better than Phoenix. They both have about the same number of points also. Miller has better stats of the two so no chance for Bryzgalov to win it.

Regarding Miller and Bryzgalov, no doubt, Miller should get the Vezina, I don't think Bryzgalov has much of a chance there, but when talking about MVP, I think it's different. Buffalo's leading scorer had 69pts, total of 3 guys with 60+ pts and they have a Calder worthy d-man. Phoenix's leading scorer had 55pts, Bryzgalov didn't have much help.

I think there are 2 things that will hurt Bryzgalov, 1. his backup atually had a better GAA and SV% (not sure voters would really notice though and really shouldn't anyway since the workload is so different) and 2. His stats are not as good as Miller's.

One thing that I think will really help Bryzgalov, but I don't think it should (meaning I don't think it shoudl play a factor in the voting, but I bet those that get the votes will take it into account) - Phoenix came further in the standings this year than Buffalo did (vs. where the teams were last year) + the stuff that franchise has gone through over the past year.

[Guest DatsyukianDeke13]

It's too hard to pick. You could make the case for every candidate.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

No Bertuzzi love?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

What? I thought you just said ovy doesn't make your top 3?

There are legit reasons for a handful of players. Personally, I don't buy the better linemates argument. Gretz had some pretty good players with him too, didn't hurt him winning MVP's.

Personally, I'd still give it to Ovechkin. The fact that he bagged 50 goals and tied for 2nd in points despite missing 10 games or 12% of the season is a huge stat. You're talking about the only guy posting a monstrous 1.5+ ppg. This is a guy, who given 82 games, would've outscored Sid and Stamkos and flat out blown Sedin out of the water. Even if he couldn't keep up his normal pace, to think AO couldn't get a minimum of 2 goals and 4 points had he played another 10 games is insane. My guess is he'd have bagged 55 goals and 120+ points, in either case we wouldn't be talking about Sid, Stamkos or Sedin.

Of course he did miss 10 games and that's why these other folks are even in the conversation. Not to discredit them, they all had great years. But AO was still fantastic and he just about topped everybody again despite missing a TON of time comparatively.

[toby91_ca 620]

There are legit reasons for a handful of players. Personally, I don't buy the better linemates argument. Gretz had some pretty good players with him too, didn't hurt him winning MVP's.

Personally, I'd still give it to Ovechkin. The fact that he bagged 50 goals and tied for 2nd in points despite missing 10 games or 12% of the season is a huge stat. You're talking about the only guy posting a monstrous 1.5+ ppg. This is a guy, who given 82 games, would've outscored Sid and Stamkos and flat out blown Sedin out of the water. Even if he couldn't keep up his normal pace, to think AO couldn't get a minimum of 2 goals and 4 points had he played another 10 games is insane. My guess is he'd have bagged 55 goals and 120+ points, in either case we wouldn't be talking about Sid, Stamkos or Sedin.

Of course he did miss 10 games and that's why these other folks are even in the conversation. Not to discredit them, they all had great years. But AO was still fantastic and he just about topped everybody again despite missing a TON of time comparatively.

I think you make good points for why Ovechkin should be considered the "most outstanding player" (Pearson), but not the MVP (Hart). The fact that he missed 10 games is 1 knock against him regardless of how the team did without him since he was unable to help his team for 12% of the season.

I understand the teammate argument, but as I put it earlier, when it's clear cut (like in Gretzky's case), I wouldn't go there, but with it so close this year, you probably need to look to the little things. No one is outscoring the competition by 100pts like Gretzky used to do.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I think you make good points for why Ovechkin should be considered the "most outstanding player" (Pearson), but not the MVP (Hart). The fact that he missed 10 games is 1 knock against him regardless of how the team did without him since he was unable to help his team for 12% of the season.

I understand the teammate argument, but as I put it earlier, when it's clear cut (like in Gretzky's case), I wouldn't go there, but with it so close this year, you probably need to look to the little things. No one is outscoring the competition by 100pts like Gretzky used to do.

I hear you. Of course the league's track record on awarding the MVP hasn't always made sense. I would argue that if AO had played the entire season, posted 55 goals and 120 points, we wouldn't be talking about these other guys so much and he'd walk away with another MVP. That said, your argument would still hold water IMO b/c another player probably is more valuable to their team than AO. When you boil it down, what's the difference between 50 or 55 goals, or 109 and 120 points? In AO's case, not much. AO's team would still be great, etc, etc..But I still think, with those numbers, he'd walk with another MVP. Which would go to show that the league is still quirky sometimes when it comes to that award.

[toby91_ca 620]

I hear you. Of course the league's track record on awarding the MVP hasn't always made sense. I would argue that if AO had played the entire season, posted 55 goals and 120 points, we wouldn't be talking about these other guys so much and he'd walk away with another MVP. That said, your argument would still hold water IMO b/c another player probably is more valuable to their team than AO. When you boil it down, what's the difference between 50 or 55 goals, or 109 and 120 points? In AO's case, not much. AO's team would still be great, etc, etc..But I still think, with those numbers, he'd walk with another MVP. Which would go to show that the league is still quirky sometimes when it comes to that award.

I know, the voters don't always consider the pure definition of the award, but I wonder if they are starting to more in recent years, especially when scoring is tight. I think when a guy scores more points than the competition by a healthy enough amount (yes if Ovechkin scored 120pts, no doubt he'd win), it's one thing, but if it's close, I wonder if they think of the other things.

Take last year as an example. Malkin led the league in scoring, but only by a few points over Ovechkin. Perhaps voters went which Ovechin because they felt Malkin had more help with Crosby.