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FischersChick2

Why do other NHL teams' fans hate the Wings?

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I think there is a misperception if we use the Yankees. They are bought and paid for with no salary cap. We just happen to win as well as a team that would have no Salary cap in a capped situation.

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Our widespread nature too. We travel exceptionally well, and we are faithful if we move away from Detroit. This is a sub-addition to that reason in that they probably don't appreciate our providing their ice with Octopi. For some reason they do not see the timeless tradition in this that we do. I believe my fiancee who is a pens fan called it classless.

sorry to hear she's a pens fan that obviously thinks that tradition is "tanking for ten years to get top 5 draft picks every year to REBUILD the franchise"....s***, atleast my fiancee likes the caps cause she likes how ovechkin looks like the geico caveman. she thinks the octopi is hilarious. best of luck dude.

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I think there is a misperception if we use the Yankees. They are bought and paid for with no salary cap. We just happen to win as well as a team that would have no Salary cap in a capped situation.

The only reason there's no salary cap in major league baseball is that the owners would never agree to a salary floor, and without a floor there will never be a cap. The NHL doesn't have the problems the MLB does with small-market teams hording money. Teams like the Marlins, Royals, Pirates and Orioles get a ton of money each year in revenue sharing and then pay their players in Monopoly money. That's why the disparity between teams like the Yankees/Red Sox/Mets/Dodgers and those squads is so great. On one side you have the teams that are willing to spend nearly anything to get players and on the other, teams willing to spend nothing. A floor would force them to operate at a competitive level, but they'd never agree to it. The NFL has a similar cap situation, where the floor is something like 84%. Meaning, if the cap was $100 million, the floor is $84 million, forcing all teams to operate between the two numbers. Obviously the players have to have the talent to win the games, regardless of how much the team's operating payroll is.

From what I've read and seen about the NHL's cap situation, I don't think those problems exist. Which is why their cap works. I actually applaud the NHL for a workable cap situation.

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I was perusing hockey message boards for various reactions to the Habs-Caps game, and stumbled across this thread. I guess I'll chime in.

For Blackhawks fans, the pre-cap Wings seemed to "buy" their way to the Cup. Hull, Robitaille, Hasek... Even though "only" one Cup came out of that spending spree, it certainly drew the ire of Hawks fans, as well as many other fans around the league.

There's no salary cap anymore, so that has let up a bit. However, the fact the Red Wings are still competitive, even with many great players leaving, is amazing. Despite the fact that the team has some of the best players in the world (Lidstrom has fallen off just a bit, but he's still top 5, and Datsyuk, in my opinion, is not only the second best forward in the game, he's also underrated), the team still chugs along. And all of that, to me, stems from the fact the organization is classy from the top down. The management and scouting team are the best in all of professional sports, and there's a tradition of excellence and pedigree that makes players want to come to the team, and take pay cuts to do so. The Wings always seem so disciplined, always ready to take it to another level. There isn't really any douchebag on the team to hate either. (EDIT: Wait a minute, what the hell am I talking about? Todd Bertuzzi. Tomas Holmstrom doesn't seem like he's a bad person. I probably should hate him, but he fills his niche so well.) So where does the hate come from? The Red Wings don't even have to try anymore to be good, it comes so naturally. The organization is better than any other team's. And, well, that kind of pisses a lot of people the f*** off. Probably, as a few people alluded to, because of jealousy.

For me, the feeling isn't so much hate as it is respect. Lots and lots of respect. I can't hate management for overspending, because the salary cap won't allow that anymore. I can't really hate any of the players either. All I can do is just shake me head that the Red Wings have somehow done it again. Which does elicit a few "f***in' Red Wings" under my breath.

If you want to ask why other NHL team's fans hate the Canucks, that'd be a much easier topic.

Edited by BlackhawksFan

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And what happens when those bottom dwellers suddenly become unsuccessful again?

It depends on the situation, but they generally go back to being ignored. When a "bottom dweller" becomes successful for a period of time (like the Boston Bruins from the late 60s through the mid 90s), they are no longer seen that way.

It is safe to say that most hockey fans are more likely to think of our team as the envy of the league as opposed to just some team that used to suck but got good in the early 1990s.

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I was perusing hockey message boards for various reactions to the Habs-Caps game, and stumbled across this thread. I guess I'll chime in.

For Blackhawks fans, the pre-cap Wings seemed to "buy" their way to the Cup. Hull, Robitaille, Hasek... Even though "only" one Cup came out of that spending spree, it certainly drew the ire of Hawks fans, as well as many other fans around the league.

There's no salary cap anymore, so that has let up a bit. However, the fact the Red Wings are still competitive, even with many great players leaving, is amazing. Despite the fact that the team has some of the best players in the world (Lidstrom has fallen off just a bit, but he's still top 5, and Datsyuk, in my opinion, is not only the second best forward in the game, he's also underrated), the team still chugs along. And all of that, to me, stems from the fact the organization is classy from the top down. The management and scouting team are the best in all of professional sports, and there's a tradition of excellence and pedigree that makes players want to come to the team, and take pay cuts to do so. The Wings always seem so disciplined, always ready to take it to another level. There isn't really any douchebag on the team to hate either. So where does the hate come from? The Red Wings don't even have to try anymore to be good, it comes so naturally. The organization is better than any other team's. And, well, that kind of pisses a lot of people the f*** off. Probably, as a few people alluded to, because of jealousy.

For me, the feeling isn't so much hate as it is respect. Lots and lots of respect. I can't hate management for overspending, because the salary cap won't allow that anymore. I can't really hate any of the players either. All I can do is just shake me head that the Red Wings have somehow done it again. Which does elicit a few "f***in' Red Wings" under my breath.

If you want to ask why other NHL team's fans hate the Canucks, that'd be a much easier topic.

I can relate and I noticed you mentioned how a lot of Hawks fans hated the Wings b/c they were willing to spend the money to acquire free agents and keep their roster together. They did spend more than most to do it, but they did it wisely. That was a common misconception among many haters that the Wings bought championships. In doing so, the failed to recognize their ability to scout and develop young talent. That is a part of what separated the Redwings from other "big spenders" such as the Maple Leafs and Rangers in the post-lockout era.

How many Hawks fans do you think would have held that against the Wings if Bill Wirtz was not such a cheapskate. I would bet not many.

With that said, it is nice to see your team winning again. It is better than the Ducks!! That is for sure.

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I'm not sure what this random listing of players is supposed to represent. Players you don't like? Players we acquired via trade/free agency that won championships? Help me out here. I'm a Yankees fan, been one since 1994 so yeah, I'm going to defend them if I think the reasoning people are using to disparage them is faulty and/or dumb. We spend a lot of money, I've never said otherwise. I think it's great and am grateful we have an owner willing to part with however much he thinks he needs to in order to insure a quality product will be on the field every season. We may not win the WS every year, but at least the best possible team to achieve that is playing every night.

I did not dislike the Yankees until reading this post.

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It's the color. Every time I see the Wings, I just see red. :ranting:

No, I don't hate the Wings. I hate the Stars. With a passion. But that's only because they are notorious (first hand experience here) for treating opposing teams' fans like absolute crap -- like, threateningly. Hockeytown fans aren't like that at all.

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Reading 101.

The last thing I hate about detroit/the wings is their success.

Sounds like typical Red Wing hate; a ton of jealousy. You even specify the city of Detroit, not just the organization of the Wings and their fans. No one would hate an entire city if there's no bitterness and a green eyed monster (psst, that's envy).

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Guest Shoreline   
Guest Shoreline

I'm currently writing a blog about why NHL teams' fans seem to hate the Red Wings. I'm in the process of asking fans of all the NHL teams why they seem to hate the Wings but I want to let the Wings fans get their opinions out there too.

So, Why do you think other NHL teams' fans seem to hate the Wings? Is it the players that make it this way? The owners? Bias in the media?

Any response would not only be helpful but greatly appreciated.

I've been off of the LetsGoWings.com forum for a while but DANG it's good to be back! :D

Why do so many Wing fans obsessively gripe about Crosby?

Because people tend to hate those that are winning.

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Guest Blackhawkdown   
Guest Blackhawkdown

The Yankee comparison holds a little weight, but I dont think its 100% accurate. Personally, I hate the Yankees not because they win, but because of how unfair it is for them to buy up all the great players they want and basically put together an all-star team every year. I dont really blame the Yankees as much as I do MLB for letting them get away with it, but I still dont like their organization. I think a better comparison with the Yankees would be the Detroit teams from a few years back, when like the Yankees, they had one of if not the biggest payrolls in Hockey, and bought their fair share of players. This is another topic alltogether though.

As far as hate for the Redwings. Part of it has to do with the success, which is always going to happen, but a lot of my dislike for the Wings are because of their fans, and how arrogant they are. An example, a good friend of mine is a Wings fan, and we give other s*** all the time obviously, but his arrogance just gets annoying sometimes. It's like this past game 7 with Phoenix, he acted all cocky even when the Wings lost game 6 at home. I mean not confident in his team, but ridiculously arrogant. He was like "I'm not worried, Detroit will win game 7 easily". During the regular season, he never thought they would miss the playoffs because of all the injuries, he just basically said they will be there in the end, period. Its like Detroit has had so much success, that its just a given that they will be there every year, and no matter what happens they will win in the end. And like I said, its not just being confident, it gets to the point to where the cockiness just gets ridiculous. Its like you cant even talk to some Wings fans about Hockey because they just believe their team will always be there, end of story. They never deal in what ifs, or get nervous before a game, they just say "oh, we will win", and thats the end of it. Obviously, not all Wings fans are like this, but a lot of them that I deal with are.

At the end of the day Detroit is a very good organization, and even with a salary cap have remaind very successful. I respect that, but I still have my dislike for the team and most of their fans. Luckily, their are a lot of level headed Wings on this board, with a few of the before mentioned fans scatterd around.

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OK, let me take a serious crack at it. I'll do it by way of an unnecessarily long screed because typing is cheap and I can type fast, and by comparison, because I don't think it's as simple as jealousy (although that's a factor with some for sure). I won five poker tournaments in a row in Wuxi, China, and you could cut the air of resentment with a knife it was so thick! So past success and a childish sense of "hey, no fair you win so much!" is a valid complaint (worthy of dismissal).

But there can be more to it than that. Let's compare the Wings (and the other teams) with America (and the other countries).

Living in China, I constantly deal with the question about why some of my fellow foreigners, mostly Europeans, have such a low generalized opinion of Americans (not America the government, which is a separate issue, but Americans, and their attitudes and culture in general). Is that because they are "just jealous"? Hardly. I wouldn't be so daft as to think that. I know that I'm also dealing with prejudices, and stereotypes, most of which wouldn't exist for any country/nationality/whatever without some thread of reality, however distorted or magnified, to go on. Also, I don't take any prejudices personally, and I am more than aware that the perception dynamic changes completely whenever things are one-on-one.

Even so, one undesirable mark of a stereotypical American is rooted in positive self-perceptions that-are-by-comparison-or-at-the-expense-of-others.

1) Spouting "We're number one!" - or some other mantra that suggests the same thing. (we did invent foam fingers, among other things)

2) A general belief (by some individuals) that we really are number one, in everything, even if we aren't.

3) Isolation and Centrism - little knowledge or genuine interest in what others are all about, or have to offer. Little "other" awareness.

4) Laurels, and the resting thereupon - "We invented democracy."..."If it wasn't for us, you'd be speaking German/Japanese."..."Everything good that happens in the world is because of us."

I could make a long laundry list, but I won't. I can't stand blind America bashing, from within or without, any more than I can stand blind self-promotion. It all looks silly to me. Furthermore, it doesn't matter whether anyone is right or wrong about their perceptions, because we are talking about PERCEPTIONS - self and other - which are too often highly subjective.

So what about the Wings? Let's start with the fact that Detroit affectionately refers to itself as "Hockeytown". I personally like that. When I hear that I take it positively, as it just means that the sport enjoys broad, passionate community spirit and support in Detroit. From my experience, I LOVE sitting and watching a hockey game with a Wings fan, because THEY...LOVE...THE SPORT, generally speaking, of course. Likewise, sitting at a baseball game with my Cubs fan friends, and a hot dog, a beer and pretzel in hand, is a treat and a half for me. Feels like Americana to me. I can eat the atmosphere with a fork and spoon, it's so good.

Incidentally, why do you think I haunt the LGW site? Same reason, MATT...LOVES...HOCKEY. And he draws in kindred fans by the THOUSANDS. Who wouldn't want to be part of that? I would, enough to be a supporter even.

Now despite the Hockeytown nickname, which is loaded with implications that can be taken negatively, the reality is that hockey in Detroit (just like every major city that has more than one pro team) takes a firm back seat to other sports, like football, baseball, and basketball. Hockey is not the number one sport in "Hockeytown". The best you might do is compare it to "per capita support/spirit" -- in which case every Canadian hockey town might step in to rival Detroit with some very real claims of their own. And I'm sure New York, which has two hockey teams, might have some claims of its own to make as well.

But what about the past wins, past Cups, being part of the Original Six, the dynastic history, especially with the Bowman/Yserman/et al years? You all really do have a city that can stand proud, right?

Sure. But sometimes pride, over what you think might set you apart in a good way, can EASILY be delivered in an in-your-face elitist way that is not just fallacious, but can win you some richly deserved enemies and repels good people.

For example, hailing from San Jose, I've always been dismissive of any fan that makes a comment about hockey teams in places "where it doesn't even snow" -- as if that somehow makes a team any less worthy. But that is akin to the kind of attitude that some are treated to by some Original Six team fans. There's always the "eww, you're a newbie" kind of nonsense (and it is childish nonsense) that comes with any self-assessment, anything that might set you, or yours, "apart from the rest". Do any of you see hockey as a "Canadian Sport"? Well, originally, even before the Original Six, it was. But Detroit was right there in its infancy. Doesn't that make it at least part American? Ask the average Canadian hockey fan, and see what they say. And then ask yourself if the question even matters to anyone except the one taking exception. Because to me it doesn't. I don't have a problem with a Jamaican Bobsled Team. The more the merrier, especially in a sport that needs all the support it can get.

BUT...just as Europeans sometimes point to their older cultures as a point of implied superiority over, say, North and South Americans, Australians, etc., it is not uncommon to hear hockey fans from Canadian and Original Six teams especially, who will allude to a sense of superiority of their own on a similar (and equally fallacious) basis. Big deal. It's silly, but it's also human nature. Old rich snubs its nose at new rich. Freshmen are hazed by Juniors and Seniors. Newbies in many internet forums are often treated to house/bridge trolls that lie in wait to put the newbie in their places.

The Yankees, like the Red Wings, are often hated for what is seen (especially in the past, when there was far more truth to it), as The Team That Can Best Afford To Buy A Pennant/Cup. Follow the money, and it really is/was, to many, no longer about who is the most talented, but rather who could afford to stack the field deck with the best/most expensive talent. At that point, the reasoning goes, why not cut out the middle man (the sport itself) and cut to the core question that is being determined, which is which city (or owner) has the most money?

Fast forward to today, and there are many who see the past accomplishments as bought-and-paid-for-deck-stackings. Which is to say, no respect for the past laurels upon which some might want to rest.

The Hockeytown/Big Dynasty syndrome, if taken (or dished out) negatively, can sound presumptuous -- like there's a feeling of entitlement, or "more-worthiness" that goes along with it. For example, I remember well when the Sharks eliminated Detroit in '94. That didn't just upset Detroit. It seemed to upset the entire hockey world. Young upstarts, and who the hell are they to fluke their way past mighty and far more proven Detroit? NHL.com covered it...then stopped covering the Sharks pretty much altogether. Very, very strange, but its just a small portion of what happens even today with Eastern Conference coverage versus Western Conference. East is elite, older, more established, while the West is rough, and new (pronounced n-ewwwww). And poor not-so-western-after-all Detroit and Chicago (once the upstart) ended up divided from the East and thrown in with the newbie western upstarts.

What does that have to do with some people hating the Red Wings? I don't know, I was rambling and got lost along the way.

[/unnecessarily_long_screed]

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Why do so many Wing fans obsessively gripe about Crosby?

Because people tend to hate those that are winning.

Actually we dislike Crosby because of the actions of the League not necessarily Crosby. They hail him as The Next One, when really he's just a talented kid- like Zetterberg and Datsyuk. But why you elevate him up to Gretzky status without earning it- it draws alot of ire from those that are being purposefully neglected. If he had come to his reputation organically I think he could have earned some respect, but his lack of maturity (which is natural since he's so young) plus this false title makes him the crybaby douchebag that he is.

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Let me attack this from another angle. Let me compare the hatred of the Wings to the hatred some (including myself) have for Jimmie Johnson, the NASCAR champion. It is a situation where simple explanations just don't seem to add up. Given that all participants play by the same rules, it defies believability that the Red Wings or the Hendrick Motor Sports managements can be that much better or smarter than all of the other management teams to win as much as they do. So, if I can't believe that disparity of brain power or work ethic, then there must be some kind of shady business going on in the background. Just as Hendrick opponents can point out endless "phantom debris cautions" at races which favor the Hendricks, I'm sure there are others who consider it a given that the Wings are somehow "favored" by the NHL. I'm sure there are those who could talk about special rules for Lidstrom just as much as we can talk about special rules for Malkin & Crosby.

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Certainly some of it is just enjoying to see a great team lose (who doesn't like seeing the Sharks go down year after year eh?).

But there is another component, and that also comes from being so successful. Often many Wings fans are elitist. In that they make it known that other fans don't belong there, or are somehow less than Wings fans. I don't know, just sitting and observing as a Wings fan at Coyotes games this year, some other Wings fans were extremely annoying with their arrogance. Coming on here I sense it too, a higher than though attitude.

As far as the team, I don't think many fans really hate the team. Except for maybe Holmstrom, when you actually think player by player, there isn't anyone they can really hate. I mean who can't help but appreciate Datsyuk, Z, or Lidstrom?

Everything else is things you seem from fans of every team honestly.

Edited by webwing91

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