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What I'm worried about


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#1 Octopus's Garden

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 08:54 AM

I saw a similar situation to this play out recently in Detroit ...

The Pistons won the NBA title, made it to the Finals the next year and lost in 7, made it to the conference finals the year after that, and then pretty suddenly fell off the face of the Earth -- they decided it wasn't working anymore, so they blew it up because they were worried about players getting too old or losing the fire. I know that the Wings have been a lot more stable as a contender than the Pistons, but ...

Now, granted, Ken Holland is leaps and bounds ahead of Joe Dumars as a general manager (at least in my mind), but it's still scary when a team drops from the pinnacle of its sport to a stumbling also-ran. Hudler's back next year, but it's hard to imagine there not being a couple more changes. And whenever that becomes a possibility, it carries with it the chance of not working.

I hope that the Wings will stay a major threat -- and I believe that they will given the talent they'll bring back next year -- but it's still a little sobering.

#2 mmamolo

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:01 AM

I think ppl need to calm down and take a step back for a minute. Even if LIdstrom were to retire we still have an excellent core in place that in its prime with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, and Filppula up front while Stuart and Kronwall man the point. It's true that Kronwall hasn't had the best POs this year but he is still a great d-man. Howard will be one year older with that much more experience. We'll add more pieces to the puzzle. This team has always been in the thick of things (for the last 20 odd years) and they aren't going anywhere soon.

The media and other teams fans can talk all they want about the end of an era and the demise of the Red Wings but it's all fantasy b.s. It's just like 9 times out of 10 going into the POs ppl talk about how the Wings are too old and too slow and how Osgood could never get the job done. The Wings have been the envy of the league for 20 years and this year we've integrated more youth into our lineup and we'll continue to move forward.

No team, no matter how dominate you are, can make it to the Conference Finals year after year without getting burnt out. In the last 3 post seasons the Wings have played approximately 70 games. That's almost a full extra season. We got our young guys some experience and we overcame a ton of adversity this year. We'll be stronger for it. Plus, despite the odds being against us, we're not out yet.
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#3 Nightfall

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:09 AM

You can't win a Stanley Cup every year. There are 30 teams in the league. 16 of them make the playoffs. You have teams that have drafted smart and those that buy free agents. Chemistry is a huge factor in the playoffs as well. Sometimes teams strike gold with players who work well with each other. In the end, they crown one champion. I think its hard to hold Ken Holland and the Red Wings to lofty expectations, especially in the salary cap world. The Wings are going to be competitive, but they won't make it to the cup finals every year. They may not even make the playoffs in the next 5 years or so.

I think a lot of Wings fans feel they are entitled to a championship every year. Which is why the refs are being blamed heavily. After all, the Wings are unstoppable! The only one that can stop them is Gary Bettmen [/sarcasm]! What Wings fans have to understand is that the Wings brass will always try to get a championship caliber team together, but it isn't going to work out every year. Some years will be better than others.

Case in point, look at the last six championship teams. The Devils? Tampa Bay? Carolina? The Ducks? Red Wings? Pens? Its a vicious cycle and teams cannot stay at the top for long. The Devils continue to make playoffs but haven't been past the first round in years. Tampa Bay has missed the playoffs more in the last six years than making them. Carolina had a good playoff run last year, but didn't even make it this year. The Ducks have been hit or miss as well. The Wings have made the playoffs every season, and have had varied success. Even the Pens have had their share of playoff disappointment before winning the cup last season.

The Wings will be a threat, and will challenge for the cup for a while. What I don't expect is for them to fall off the face of the earth like some of these cup winning teams. I think the Wings have made the playoffs for 16 consecutive years or something like that. That will end, like all records do eventually, but the management has made a commitment to spending to the cap and competing for a championship every year. The players they bring in buy into that as well.
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#4 Travis

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:14 AM

I could never see Ken Holland doing that.

One thing to keep in mind, too, is that the Pistons made it to the Eastern Conference Finals six times and only had one NBA title to show for it. The biggest knock against them was that they were one piece away from having a Championship team and after multiple attempts to find that piece, Dumars (who is far from being Kenny) decided to blow it up.

A lot of the Pistons situation had to do with frustration, disappointment, and - to be fair - Chauncey being ready to move on. He was mailing it in toward the end of his time in Detroit, and proceeded to go off as soon as he landed in Denver.

Short story long, Kenny is smarter than that and I really don't see this team getting dismantled. Especially because of all the injuries we've had. He'll make some moves that no one sees coming and do whatever he does to keep us cap-compliant. I know his hands were really tied last off-season and that we're in a similar place, but I fully expect him to add a couple of pieces to this team. Not blow it up.

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#5 VM1138

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:22 AM

Holland isn't the type to really clean house. He tweaks.

I do expect a busy summer, though, but I don't think he'll overreact.

He'll improve on defense if he can, though we're not likely to move Lidstrom/Rafalski/Kronwall/Stuart so there's not much he can do in that area. He'll bring in Hudler and add another forward or two while taking a long hard look at the contributions of each player because we're getting backlogged on forwards.

There will be a lot of little moves, I expect. Lebda may finally be let go, maybe even Lilja in favor of more effective, young 3rd pairs. Meech will probably be let go for Kindl to come up as the 7th defenseman, I think he's out of options next season. I also expect to get a full-on scoring power forward if one can be found. I think having too many playmakers is hurting this team.
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#6 dobbles

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:44 AM

i don't live in the detroit area so i am not super familiar with the pistons history and personnel moves, but i can say this: basketball is 90% individuals and 10% team; hockey is about 90% team and 10% individual. i think trying to make comparisons between the 2 is pretty useless. in basketball you can move 2 guys and all of a sudden your team has a totally different look.

additionally, its hard to worry about the wings possibly blowing up the team when so many of the core players have super long term contracts. even if folks feel holland had a bad offseason last summer, i still don't think he would consider trading guys like datsyuk or zetterberg. even if he felt it was rebuild time, how could he ever get a decent trade value for some of the best players in the league? also, with those monster long term high dollar contracts, it would limit who would even be able to take on our top players.

i guess i can see how this would feel similar to the results of the pistons, but i think the comparison is apples to transmissions so to speak...

I love Maltby, but to say he wasn't a ****** is a dis-service to his career of douchebaggery.


#7 DEVILSWATERBOY

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:04 AM

I am a firm believer in change for the better, but here is my idea first thing get a new defense coach, then maybe it is time for Homer,Drapes, Malts, Lids, and Osgood to retire(only way you keep Lids is a big pay cut 3 mil max, I am not sure on the actual dollar amount left if I am not mistaken it will be around 6 mill use 4 mill an get yourself a good old hard hitting d-man along as couple of forwards at 2 mil each, but remeber this if they do not get a new d coach it will not make a differance

#8 beez35

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:23 AM

One thing that people need to stop doing - which is the same at every down turn, or bad patch - is to stop thinking that we need to get rid of 5-6 players (who ever they may be) and replace them with 5-6 other players! Keeping certain veteran players like Maltby and Draper for a small price can be a great asset for the team when mentoring younger up and coming players. I don't believe there's another team in the NHL that has as many Stanley Cup rings in the room - experience is a great thing to have, and a lot of teams lack. How many rings do the Oilers and the Maple Leafs have between them? And neither of them know a f*cking fiddle about how to make it far in the playoffs, yet alone to the playoffs in the first place.

We'll be back - maybe not this year, but possibly 2011. And it will be veteran leadership and proven management that will play a vital role in putting that winning team together.

Remember this is the team that battled through massive injuries this year and got all the way to the 2nd round of the playoffs (so far). 16-1-3 (??) since the Olympics? That's huge!

IMO there's only minor tweaking that needs to be made here, like there is every year - to get the combination right again.

Edited by beez35, 05 May 2010 - 10:32 AM.

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#9 soultrain

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:32 AM

the nba might as well be the wwf.

#10 DEVILSWATERBOY

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:39 AM

alot of people want the cup or nothing, but what we all have to remember is that we can not turn back time and at some point and time we need get alittle younger legs on the ice, and if it means just making the playoffs for a few years and not getting the prize so be it

#11 Aussie_Wing

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:45 AM

The Pistons and the Red Wings are nothing alike, and trust me, I used to follow the Pistons VERY closely until I stopped caring about the NBA.

1. Pistons NEVER had any out and out superstars like Lidstrom or Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

2. The Pistons stuffed up so many drafts in a row, mainly because they kept trying to draft players with 'Pistons DNA'. This is code for players who are slightly older, defense first, are very limited offensively with little upside. Rodney 'Suckey' is about the only decent player they've drafted over the past...7 years.

3. They got extremely stubborn and refused to make any significant trades, they kept rolling out the same starting 4 (5 before Ben left for the $$$) hoping they would be a main contender again when everyone was getting slightly worse.

4. Perhaps the biggest one of all, when it was clear they were not going to improve their side, they still tried to hang on for too long. When they finally realised a shake-up was needed, they made some truly moronic trades. Trading away the heart and soul of the team in Billups, then giving up Delfino (who is showing his OBVIOUS talent with Milwaukee), and then Afflalo. Stupid, stupid, stupid. All very nice peices which they gave away for virtually nothing.

Wings have nothing to worry about, they're not folding like the Pistons have. Everyone could see the Pistons's current sucking a mile away, too bad Joe obviously couldn't. So overrated.

Ken Holland: Hes (Mursak) a young guy, provides energy, can skate, hes a puck hound.


#12 Travis

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:48 AM

the nba might as well be the wwf.


I don't know why you'd say something like that.

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#13 thedisappearer

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:48 AM

The Red Wings are too old and the dynasty is over. OH NOEZ!!!!!!!

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#14 nate94gt

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:49 AM

The wings will be fine next year. dead weight like williams will be gone, a few other players wont make the cut (meech, lebda, etc), and we'll throw in some fresh faces (like we did w/ eaves and miller, good filler guys that dont make too many mistakes). Our core is there (dats, zetterberg, etc). We'll be fine.

#15 mjtm77

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 11:08 AM

We should be fine I think Lids need to go as I would like to make the team a bit younger
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#16 nate94gt

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 02:38 PM

We should be fine I think Lids need to go as I would like to make the team a bit younger

Lidstrom can stay, but i dont think that he will.

#17 Rockitman

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 02:43 PM

I would be worried if we didn't have guys still in their prime like Dats, Z and Johan plus the fact we do have some very good prospects in our system right now the Wings will be fine but they ABSOLUTELY have some tweaking to do if this team seriously wants to compete for Lord Stanley's Cup next season.... GO WINGS!!!
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#18 Casey

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 06:23 PM

I don't believe there's another team in the NHL that has as many Stanley Cup rings in the room - experience is a great thing to have, and a lot of teams lack. How many rings do the Oilers and the Maple Leafs have between them? And neither of them know a f*cking fiddle about how to make it far in the playoffs, yet alone to the playoffs in the first place.


Detroit has to be tops in the league. Just including Lids, Homer, Maltby and Draper is a quick 16.
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#19 Theophany

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 06:37 PM

We should be fine I think Lids need to go as I would like to make the team a bit younger

Look at the regular season +/-, then consider that Lidstrom, Rafalski, Z, and Dats are all out there against the best other teams have to offer.

Most specifically Lidstrom is matched up against the Crosbys, Ovechkins, Kovalchuks, Sedins, Hossas, etc of the league.

He still has a significantly higher +/- than any other defenseman on the team excepting his own defensive partner (Lidstrom was +22, next closest was Kronwall at +5).

Saying that you WANT Lidstrom to go is incredibly stupid.

#20 Patrick Roy

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 08:41 PM

let's hope draper, lidstrom, homer, ozzie, and maltby all retire...NOT!!! Ditch williams, bertuzzi, and lebda
I'm Patrick Roy, *****!!! Ready to bob my head, because I still can't shake seeing Mike Ricci naked in the locker room out of my head, or the nightmare the wings put me through in the playoffs!!! I do not wear underwear during the playoffs, and I have a wings jersey on under my uniform!!! I worship Terry Sawchuk!!!





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