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Shaman

Mike Babcock expects 70 points from Hudler

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18 Paul Stastny COL C 81 20 59 79

19 Evgeni Malkin PIT C 67 28 49 77

20 Corey Perry ANA R 82 27 49 76

21 Mike Green WSH D 75 19 57 76

22 Ryan Kesler VAN C 82 25 50 75

23 Loui Eriksson DAL L 82 29 42 71

24 Mikko Koivu MIN C 80 22 49 71

25 Daniel Alfredsson OTT R 70 20 51 71

26 Eric Staal CAR C 70 29 41 70

27 Pavel Datsyuk DET C 80 27 43 70

28 Tomas Plekanec MTL C 82 25 45 70

29 Vincent Lecavalier TBL C 82 24 46 70

30 Henrik Zetterberg DET L 74 23 47 70

These were the players in the 70-79 point range last year and I just don't see Hudler being in the same range as these guys. I used 70 points as the cut off because even if he hits 69 points, people will still say, "He didn't hit 70".

For starters, if everyone is expecting Hank and Pav to "pick up their game" next season then you'd have to assume it would mean getting more goals on the PP, which would take potential goals away from Huds since he's on the 2nd unit and you can't score twice on the same PP. Unless he plays over his head and gets bumped to the 1st line PP then it's a different story.

Also, he's stepping back into the NHL after playing a season in the KHL. Whether or not he makes the transition back to the NHL quickly or not will be a big factor. He'll have to produce consistantly ALL year with the ice time he gets and can't afford to be streaky if he hopes to hit those totals given the ice time he has.

Lastly, I really think the comment was just to light a fire under the guy. If he produces at that level it would be great, but I'm not holding my breath.

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He's been a disappointment.Hudler won't be doing anything amazing either.In my opinion,he's way overpaid.Wouldn't mind them being shipped out of town.

Look around the NHL. 2.85 million dollars is a bargain price for a 57pt player. Add the age factor and continuous year-to-year improvement at the NHL level to the equation and I just don't understand how you can possibly say Hudler's overpaid. He may be one dimensional but he does his single dimension very well and players usually get paid tons of money for putting 50+ pts up.

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For starters, if everyone is expecting Hank and Pav to "pick up their game" next season then you'd have to assume it would mean getting more goals on the PP, which would take potential goals away from Huds since he's on the 2nd unit and you can't score twice on the same PP. Unless he plays over his head and gets bumped to the 1st line PP then it's a different story.

Pavel Datsyuk can.

Look around the NHL. 2.85 million dollars is a bargain price for a 57pt player. Add the age factor and continuous year-to-year improvement at the NHL level to the equation and I just don't understand how you can possibly say Hudler's overpaid. He may be one dimensional but he does his single dimension very well and players usually get paid tons of money for putting 50+ pts up.

A lot of people on here are still upset over how he played in 2009, fair or unfair.

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Well I just calculated how Babcock came to his estimate of 70pts. If you calculate Hudler's points per game in 07-08 and in 08-09 you get 0.519 and 0.615 respectively. Now subtract the second from the first to get the relative increase in Hudler's ppg over those two years (in other words you're quantifying the exact amount he managed to increase his stats by). If you assume Hudler has the identical level of improvement between his last season and the next season as he did from 07-08 to 08-09 (an additional 0.177 ppg) you can project his point per game production in 10-11 by simply adding that increase to the ppg he had in 08-09. The resulting ppg is 0.872. That works out to 71pts and 33 goals in an 82 game season (note that in his 3 seasons in the NHL he played 76, 81 and 82 games).

So there you go-- he didn't pull that number out of thin air he just assumed that Hudler's points totals would increase along the same path they have since his sophomore year. It's a bold projection but fits with the stats in hand.

Lidstrom for life likes this

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Either way we arent going to find a player to come in and put up 50 points, UFA at the price we are playing Hudler is slim, the only guys would be Plakanec and Lombardi and they will both be getting raises, more then we are paying Hudler. Another thing people are forgetting is he is coming in and is going to have alot of chemistry with the players on this team, which is huge plus he already knows the system and wont take 20 games into the season before he starts doing anything. Even if he puts up 40points its better then what we had this season out of alot of guys. I dont see any reason if he is playing top 6 min why he cant hit 70

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18 Paul Stastny COL C 81 20 59 79

19 Evgeni Malkin PIT C 67 28 49 77

20 Corey Perry ANA R 82 27 49 76

21 Mike Green WSH D 75 19 57 76

22 Ryan Kesler VAN C 82 25 50 75

23 Loui Eriksson DAL L 82 29 42 71

24 Mikko Koivu MIN C 80 22 49 71

25 Daniel Alfredsson OTT R 70 20 51 71

26 Eric Staal CAR C 70 29 41 70

27 Pavel Datsyuk DET C 80 27 43 70

28 Tomas Plekanec MTL C 82 25 45 70

29 Vincent Lecavalier TBL C 82 24 46 70

30 Henrik Zetterberg DET L 74 23 47 70

These were the players in the 70-79 point range last year and I just don't see Hudler being in the same range as these guys. I used 70 points as the cut off because even if he hits 69 points, people will still say, "He didn't hit 70".

For starters, if everyone is expecting Hank and Pav to "pick up their game" next season then you'd have to assume it would mean getting more goals on the PP, which would take potential goals away from Huds since he's on the 2nd unit and you can't score twice on the same PP. Unless he plays over his head and gets bumped to the 1st line PP then it's a different story.

Also, he's stepping back into the NHL after playing a season in the KHL. Whether or not he makes the transition back to the NHL quickly or not will be a big factor. He'll have to produce consistantly ALL year with the ice time he gets and can't afford to be streaky if he hopes to hit those totals given the ice time he has.

Lastly, I really think the comment was just to light a fire under the guy. If he produces at that level it would be great, but I'm not holding my breath.

The players in bold all unquestionably have less natural offensive talent and instincts than Hudler. An argument can be made for several others at this point and time in their careers (I.E. Alferdsson) or a player putting up points as a result of their physical attributes rather than actual talent (Lecaliver). Hudler is not a better player at this point on time then many of those I bolded, but you can't say he isn't more talented. It amazes me just how low people rate Hudler's talent, when at one point and time considered the best player in the world for his age (prior to lack of growth spurt), and was said to have near phenom like talent. I doubt he will ever be a 100 point scorer, but to even suggest the mere possibility that a player such as Filppula has the same amount of natural talent as a player with Hudler is beyond asinine (though obviously Filppula is the better all around player).

People seem to forget that in his last year with us he was top 15 in terms of points per total TOI, ahead of some of our stars such... well everybody but Datsyuk. 70 Points will be tough, but anybody who claims he can't or will not even reach 50 really does not realize just how good that little midget is.

Look around the NHL. 2.85 million dollars is a bargain price for a 57pt player. Add the age factor and continuous year-to-year improvement at the NHL level to the equation and I just don't understand how you can possibly say Hudler's overpaid. He may be one dimensional but he does his single dimension very well and players usually get paid tons of money for putting 50+ pts up.

Many spoiled RW's fans won't believe this but Hudler is actually at the very least average defensively compared to the rest of the league and well above average in terms of actual awareness. His problems moreso come from his lack of speed and size, not from a lack of effort.

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If the Wings get 60 to 70 points from Hudler based on his salary hes a steal. I don't see whats with all the Hudler hate... He makes me happy ;)

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Not sure how this thread turned into a Filppula debate?

If Hudler scores only 60 points, that's 60 points we didn't have last season. 70 points is great, but I am thrilled just to have 60 extra points on this roster.

Edited by Heaten

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The players in bold all unquestionably have less natural offensive talent and instincts than Hudler. An argument can be made for several others at this point and time in their careers (I.E. Alferdsson) or a player putting up points as a result of their physical attributes rather than actual talent (Lecaliver). Hudler is not a better player at this point on time then many of those I bolded, but you can't say he isn't more talented. It amazes me just how low people rate Hudler's talent, when at one point and time considered the best player in the world for his age (prior to lack of growth spurt), and was said to have near phenom like talent. I doubt he will ever be a 100 point scorer, but to even suggest the mere possibility that a player such as Filppula has the same amount of natural talent as a player with Hudler is beyond asinine (though obviously Filppula is the better all around player).

People seem to forget that in his last year with us he was top 15 in terms of points per total TOI, ahead of some of our stars such... well everybody but Datsyuk. 70 Points will be tough, but anybody who claims he can't or will not even reach 50 really does not realize just how good that little midget is.

Many spoiled RW's fans won't believe this but Hudler is actually at the very least average defensively compared to the rest of the league and well above average in terms of actual awareness. His problems moreso come from his lack of speed and size, not from a lack of effort.

Even if those guys do have less offensive instinct then Hudler (which I tihnk youre wrong about most) they have other things that are needed in hockey. Umm SIZE, and skating ability. Not to mention that most of those guys, if not all are stronger defensively. I know youre not really saying Hudler is better, but really Hudler isn't anywhere near most of those guys.

And Perry has awful skating ability but still has put up more points then Hudler. Offensive instinct and hockey sense aren,t all that matters in hockey.

And no Huds is for sure below average defensively

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Even if those guys do have less offensive instinct then Hudler (which I tihnk youre wrong about most) they have other things that are needed in hockey. Umm SIZE, and skating ability. Not to mention that most of those guys, if not all are stronger defensively. I know youre not really saying Hudler is better, but really Hudler isn't anywhere near most of those guys.

And Perry has awful skating ability but still has put up more points then Hudler. Offensive instinct and hockey sense aren,t all that matters in hockey.

And no Huds is for sure below average defensively

Please tell me where I said that size did not matter, as I tried to make a point that I was only regarding offensive instincts. I was simply implying that while most of those players are better than him, I really wouldn't say they were that too much more talented.

As for Perry, I'd love to see what Huds would put up with Perry's minutes and on a line with Getzlaf(plus the size differential would be hilarious). He outscored Perry by a fair margin in his last season here in terms of points per minute. This is not a debatable or subjective matter. I obviously think Perry is a better player, but I would not say he was miles ahead of him.

And no, Hudler is not below average defensively. He is slow, which makes him mere average, and he would and will never be a PK player, but he is in no way a liability out there.

Drake_Marcus likes this

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Let's take a look at currently signed players who will be making within $250k of Hudler's cap hit for 2010-2011 (between $2.625m and $3.125m) and see what their average production has been the past two seasons in the NHL. Players who are required to hit multiple bonuses to reach that cap hit are not included.

Only three players scored more points than Hudler did in 2008-09. Only six players scored more goals than Hudler did in 2008-09. Only three had more assists than Hudler did in 2008-09. Very few are capable to any degree defensively. Hudler is above average defensively compared to the NHL's forwards, and when you take away the defensive specialists who are typically banished to the third and fourth lines, it pushes Hudler even higher above the average. I would say perhaps seven of the forwards listed below are as good or better than Hudler defensively, and only three scored 40+ points, which is 17 fewer than Hudler scored. Hudler at $2.875m is a pretty damn good deal. If he scores 70, then only Parise even beats that mark. Saying that $2.875m could be better used elsewhere is ridiculous.

Zach Parise, NJ, 82 GP, 42-47-89

Jamie Langenbrunner, NJ, 81 GP, 24-41-65

Stephen Weiss, FLA, 79 GP, 21-40-61

Milan Hejduk, COL, 65 GP, 25-27-52

Mike Knuble, WSH, 76 GP, 28-22-50

Kris Versteeg, CHI, 79 GP, 21-28-49

Niklas Hagman, CGY, 74 GP, 24-20-44

Radim Vrbata, PHX, 84 GP, 24-19-43

Steve Ott, DAL, 69 P, 21-21-42

Mikhail Grabovski, TOR, 69 GP, 15-27-42

Daniel Cleary, DET, 69 GP, 15-23-38

Valtteri Filppula, DET, 68 GP, 12-26-38

Ales Kotalik, CGY, 78 GP, 16-20-36

Dustin Byfuglien, CHI, 80 GP, 16-17-33

Erik Cole, CAR, 60 GP, 15-15-30

Jonathan Cheechoo, OTW, 64 GP, 9-13-22

Patrick O'Sullivan, EDM, 46 GP, 7-14-21

Rostislav Olesz, FLA, 58 GP, 9-10-19

Samuel Pahlsson, CBJ, 72 GP, 5-12-17

Chris Clark, CBJ, 53 GP, 4-9-13

Finnish Wing and Drake_Marcus like this

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18 Paul Stastny COL C 81 20 59 79

19 Evgeni Malkin PIT C 67 28 49 77

20 Corey Perry ANA R 82 27 49 76

21 Mike Green WSH D 75 19 57 76

22 Ryan Kesler VAN C 82 25 50 75

23 Loui Eriksson DAL L 82 29 42 71

24 Mikko Koivu MIN C 80 22 49 71

25 Daniel Alfredsson OTT R 70 20 51 71

26 Eric Staal CAR C 70 29 41 70

27 Pavel Datsyuk DET C 80 27 43 70

28 Tomas Plekanec MTL C 82 25 45 70

29 Vincent Lecavalier TBL C 82 24 46 70

30 Henrik Zetterberg DET L 74 23 47 70

These were the players in the 70-79 point range last year and I just don't see Hudler being in the same range as these guys. I used 70 points as the cut off because even if he hits 69 points, people will still say, "He didn't hit 70".

For starters, if everyone is expecting Hank and Pav to "pick up their game" next season then you'd have to assume it would mean getting more goals on the PP, which would take potential goals away from Huds since he's on the 2nd unit and you can't score twice on the same PP. Unless he plays over his head and gets bumped to the 1st line PP then it's a different story.

Also, he's stepping back into the NHL after playing a season in the KHL. Whether or not he makes the transition back to the NHL quickly or not will be a big factor. He'll have to produce consistantly ALL year with the ice time he gets and can't afford to be streaky if he hopes to hit those totals given the ice time he has.

Lastly, I really think the comment was just to light a fire under the guy. If he produces at that level it would be great, but I'm not holding my breath.

I agree that Babs may be trying to motivate Huds, but come on...each guy on this list is on the top line/ or 1A line of his team. They play with the best. They get 20+ minutes a night more ice time.

Hudler has always been given scraps in terms of playing time and he consistantly gets better each year. If Happy can get 47 pts with 10 minutes a night.... if he gets 18-20 minutes a night, Hudler can get 70 points IMO.

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