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Nice little article on our 2010/11 lines...

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2008-2009

Hudler

23 Goals, 34 Assists, 57 points (Regular Season)

4 Goals, 8 Assists, 12 points (Playoffs)

Fillpula

12 Goals, 28 Assists, 40 points (Regular Season)

3 Goals, 13 Assists, 16 points (Playoffs)

When's the last time Fillpula has cracked 20 goals in a season? Because to automatically assume a guy who has never cracked 20 goals in a season should without a doubt be placed on the top 2 lines is a big stretch. Especially when you'd have to take someone off those lines who have all proven they can produce.

From time to time Fillpula has shown that he can be the player everyone thinks he can be, but again, until the points come and he does it on a consistent basis the other 6 guys ahead of him should stay put.

Again, if Filppula has the talent that everyone seems to think he has then you can't "waste" talent like that since good players are supposed to make everyone around them better and the points should come. And if he shows he can produce, then there's no reason why he shouldn't be on the top 2 lines. It's not a bias I have, it's just hockey.

"Shakes Head"

I dont know how many times this has been brought up, and every time someone tries to make the argument that Hudler is better than Filppula, their argument gets blown to shreds.

07-08 Even strength points

Filppula, 11 goals 25 assists 36 points, 80 games

Hudler, 17 goals, 12 assists, 29 points, 82 games

Flips stats for 09-10, 35 points, 55 games = 52 point pace

Also, Flip is much, much better defensively.

Im glad to have Hudler back but it isnt even close guys. Theres a reason Flip is paid more than Hudler, and it will come more clear for everyone next season.

miller76 likes this

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I'd like to see Franzen play with Datsyuk rather than Zetterberg. Datsyuk is undoubtedly our best playmaker, whereas Franzen is definitely our best pure goal scorer. The two together should be able to make some noise.

I prefer Datsyuk with Franzen and Hudler with Zetterberg. Both Z and Huds are hybrid passer/scorer type guys while Dats and Franzen are pure playmaker/scorer types of guys.

Throw Bertuzzi with Hudler and Z to be their net-front guy and put Holmstrom with Dats since those two seem to be inseparable.

If you're dead set on Filppula playing on the top six switch him with Hudler, I guess, but I'd much rather have Zetterberg with Hudler to minimize any defensive issues. Filppula would immediately make the 3rd line defensively responsible since he's such a good defensive centre.

"Shakes Head"

I dont know how many times this has been brought up, and every time someone tries to make the argument that Hudler is better than Filppula, their argument gets blown to shreds.

07-08 Even strength points

Filppula, 11 goals 25 assists 36 points, 80 games

Hudler, 17 goals, 12 assists, 29 points, 82 games

Flips stats for 09-10, 35 points, 55 games = 52 point pace

Also, Flip is much, much better defensively.

Im glad to have Hudler back but it isnt even close guys. Theres a reason Flip is paid more than Hudler, and it will come more clear for everyone next season.

Filppula played way more even strength mins. What are their even strength points per min values?

Also, proving that Filppula was on pace for 52pts last season doesn't really help your case against the guy who last scored 57pts.

GoWings1905 likes this

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Flip and Hudler are both good offensive players in different ways. Jiri has better vision, and in fact is a tremendous playmaker that I think is second to only Datsyuk on the team. He didn't win any genetic lottery which is why he does his best work on the power play where size and speed aren't an issue. He is much more decisive with the puck and a better shooter than Flip.

Flip is a very good skater and that's why he is successful at even strength where he can do work in transition. This year's playoffs are a good example of that -- please recall him winning a footrace to the puck from Bert's aerial alley-oop to beat Bryz on a breakaway in Game 2, or how he used his speed to beat Keith Yandle to the outside and get off a shot in Game 7 that Bert collected the rebound on and scored. These are plays Hudler could never hope to make.

Both are top six material but have happened to play on a deep team that has always had better options at their positions.

Finnish Wing and McAwesome like this

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all player debates aside, here are my projections/hope for the lines next year. I may be wrong, but if they arent keeping lilja then i guess we put erricson in there but damn he sucked quite a bit last year. and dont even get started with the bertuzzi debate. hes a bum on offense and you all know it. yes he was good at keeping the team afloat with all the injuries last year, but he just isnt up to par on offense like the rest of the forwards on this list and you all know it. like some people on here said in the maltby thread, its time to stop being sentimental. he was a good fill in and thats it. end of story. you were grasping at straws last year saying he was great. he was turnover todd and you all know it.

zeterberg, datsyuk, holmstrom

hudler, fillpula, franzen

draper, helm, eaves,

miller, abdelkader, bertuzzi

lidstrom, kronwall

rafalski, stuart

lilja, kindl

egroen likes this

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"Shakes Head"

I dont know how many times this has been brought up, and every time someone tries to make the argument that Hudler is better than Filppula, their argument gets blown to shreds.

07-08 Even strength points

Filppula, 11 goals 25 assists 36 points, 80 games

Hudler, 17 goals, 12 assists, 29 points, 82 games

Flips stats for 09-10, 35 points, 55 games = 52 point pace

Also, Flip is much, much better defensively.

Im glad to have Hudler back but it isnt even close guys. Theres a reason Flip is paid more than Hudler, and it will come more clear for everyone next season.

Are you honestly saying that my statistical comparison of Filppula and Hudler will be "blown to shreds" when in the same reply, you're trying to tell me that salary is an absolute reflection of talent? Also, Filppula makes $125,000 more per year than Hudler so if you can give me an answer as to what Filppula will do more than Hudler for $125,000 than I'm all ears.

And the "just wait til next season" lines on Filppula are bordering on legend. Using the logic you have used, if he's paid more he should have already put better numbers than Hudler but as it stands RIGHT NOW, consideration for a top line spot should go to Hudler because he's been statistically better than Filppula every single season they've shared the same ice.

If Filppula turns it on then I'll eat crow, give him all the credit he deserves, and call for Hudler to be replaced. Again, I don't have a hidden agenda against the guy I'm just reading the numbers.

Drake_Marcus likes this

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3rd line?

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hossa, Franzen. 1:45/game on the PP. Even playing on the third line was with players like Flip, Hudler, and Sammy.

He had a poor year. He was not fighting through injuries all season. He was not stuck with poor linemates. He just had a poor season (in relation to what we were hoping to get from him). For the record, I'm not saying he's a poor player, or that we should get rid of him if we could. I said he was not fighting injuries 2 years ago, and still had a bad year. Those are facts. I said he, or someone else, will get stuck on the third line and their production will suffer for it. (Something you apparently agree with from your statement about Cleary... even if it wasn't accurate.)

Of course, these are things that people like you continually omit. You make emotional statements without any factual foundation or research to support your arguments. Rather than admitting you have a weak argument, you don't bother to check if you even have an argument, nor try to understand what it is you're arguing against. Good work.

I think the year in question was when he had the eye injury, only missed like the first 10 or so games, but had to wear a screen for a while cause his eye was still bugging him. I remember they were talking about how that inhibited him in playing the way he plays best, hard on the boards, head down, mucking it up. That's his game, he grinds, but he couldn't see down in his feet as well so that slowed him down, and he just had a tough time getting into a groove. Cleary could have played better, but it would be nonsense to dismiss the injuries he has had the past few years have been unfortunate. To omit that from the argument is ignorant.

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The lines are going to be switched around left and right all season i'm sure. Probably the same way in the playoffs.

I would like to see Z and Pavs together and give the second line to Flip and Mule.

Lets go Red Wings!

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I think the year in question was when he had the eye injury, only missed like the first 10 or so games, but had to wear a screen for a while cause his eye was still bugging him. I remember they were talking about how that inhibited him in playing the way he plays best, hard on the boards, head down, mucking it up. That's his game, he grinds, but he couldn't see down in his feet as well so that slowed him down, and he just had a tough time getting into a groove. Cleary could have played better, but it would be nonsense to dismiss the injuries he has had the past few years have been unfortunate. To omit that from the argument is ignorant.

I remember them talking about that when he was wearing the lower face shield after the broken jaw, but not the season with the eye injury.

I don't know why it's such a hard thing for people to just admit that Cleary had a sub-par season a couple years ago, and it wasn't because of injuries. So now it wasn't even the injury it was the equipment he had to wear after the injury. What's next, distracted by a piece of tissue on his chin after he cut himself shaving? f***, I'm not telling the villagers to grab their pitchforks. I just said the guy wasn't fighting through injuries two years ago, he just had a down year.

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all player debates aside, here are my projections/hope for the lines next year. I may be wrong, but if they arent keeping lilja then i guess we put erricson in there but damn he sucked quite a bit last year. and dont even get started with the bertuzzi debate. hes a bum on offense and you all know it. yes he was good at keeping the team afloat with all the injuries last year, but he just isnt up to par on offense like the rest of the forwards on this list and you all know it. like some people on here said in the maltby thread, its time to stop being sentimental. he was a good fill in and thats it. end of story. you were grasping at straws last year saying he was great. he was turnover todd and you all know it.

zeterberg, datsyuk, holmstrom

hudler, fillpula, franzen

draper, helm, eaves,

miller, abdelkader, bertuzzi

lidstrom, kronwall

rafalski, stuart

lilja, kindl

Would love, love, love to see the Cup-winning line of Z/D/H back regularly. Teams simply had no answer to this line.

I think Hudler, Filppula and Franzen would tear it up as well.

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someone mentioned these interesting combinations earlier...

#1) Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary

...this line has always been great!

#2) Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

...it seems like pav wouldn't have enough help on this line with bertuzzi being his best partner...but this was our best line at times last season.

#3) Hudler-Filppula-Abdelkader

...very very solid 3rd scoring line.

#4) Miller-Helm-Eaves

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I want to see...

Hudler, Datsyuk, Holmstrom

Franzen, Zetterberg, Cleary

Bertuzzi, V.Filppula, Ritola ( I.Filppula)

Abdelkader, Helm, Eaves (Miller, Draper)

Lidstrom, Kronwall

Rafalski, Stuart

Ericsson, Kindl

Meech(Lilja)

be about it... :thumbup:

I am all in for those. I Flip needs to be taken out for now. We have nooo idea what thats going to be. I see the () but still, its a waiting game on that.

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Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Hudler-Filppula-Franzen

Cleary-Abdelkader-Bertuzzi

Draper-Helm-Eaves

+ Miller, Ritola

Lidstrom-Kronwall

Stuart-Rafalski

Kindl-Ericsson

+ Lilja

Howard

Osgood

I really want to see Hank and Pav playing together. I also want to pair Kronwall with Lidstrom to balance out the first pairings. Rafalski is the most offense-minded of our top4 and Stuart is the most defense-minded. Kronwall and Lidstrom are more balanced.

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Datsyuk/Filpulla/Holmstrom

Zetterberg/Franzen/Hudler

Abdelkader/Bertuzzi/Cleary

Draper/Helm/Eaves

Miller

Ritola

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Stuart/Kronwall

Ericcson/Lilja

Kindl

Howard

Osgood

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I still say:

Hudler/Zetterberg/Franzen

Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Eaves

Cleary/Filppula/Bertuzzi

Abdelkader/Helm/Miller?

Draper???

Lidstrom/Ericsson

Kronwall/Rafalski

Kindl?/Stuart

Meech/Janik/Lilja/???

Howard

Osgood

Ritola/Eaves/Miller and possibly even Helm/Draper/Abdelkader are included in a playoff for the last couple forward spots, possibly along with training camp invitees or prospects like McGrath, Emmerton, Oulahen, etc.

Meech/Janik, possibly Lilja if retained, and/or any other potential UFA signing, plus any potential training camp invitee or prospect would have to fight for the last couple of defense spots as well.

Figure if a guy like Ritola or Meech with skill and potential doesn't make it he gets dealt, so that might give them an edge if it's close, but likely works against them, if they are behind one or two guys.

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Here's an idea...

FORWARDS:

#1)

Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary

...Next to the Hank-Pav-Homer line (which we don't have the depth to use), this has been our best line over the last two or so seasons. Let's get it back together!

#2)

Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

...This was our best line for a long stretch last season. Let's go with it as our number two line next season. I know it'd be better to get Flip or Huds on Pav's wing (and Babs can mix them in), but, it'd ruin our third line - - - we'd have to go with either Abdelkader-Filppula-Cleary...or...Hudler-Helm-Cleary...and imo, both would suck. I think we'd be better off with three productive lines.

#3)

Hudler-Filppula-Abdelkader

...This would be one he!! of a third line, probably the best in the NHL. Flip and Huds have had great chemistry together, and Abby would add a much needed physical presence (and hopefully develop into a nice net-front player as well). It'd be real, real hard for anyone in the NHL to matchup against three lines like this for an entire game.

#4)

Miller/*Enforcer*-Helm-Eaves

Draper

(Ritola)

(Filppula)

...This would be a great shut-down line. If we have the cap-room to add an enforcer, it'd be even better.

DEFENSEMEN:

#1)

Lidstrom-Kronwall

...I think it's time to split up Lidstrom and Rafalski. Reason #1 - Rafalski defers to Lidstrom too much at the point. He's too good a shooter to be giving up so many opportunities (see his performance on team USA). He'd be much more productive as a #1 man imo. Reason #2 - Neither Lidstrom or Rafalski like going into the boards in their old age. Teams dump against them with ease. It's embarrasing, and it needs to stop.

#2)

Stuart-Rafalski

...I like Kronwall with Lidstrom, and I like Stuart with Rafalski, because it gives us an offensive-minded defenseman (Kronwall, Rafalski) and a defensive-minded defenseman (Stuart, Lidstrom) on both lines.

#3)

Kindl-Ericsson

Meech/*Enforcer*

(Janik)

...I'm hoping for the best, lol.

GOALIES:

#1)

Howard

#2)

Osgood

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Realistically, I think that we are looking at six possible line combinations for next season...

#1:

Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary

Hudler-Filppula-Abdelkader

Miller-Helm-Eaves

pros - three very productive scoring lines.

cons - pav probably isn't going to reach his potential with bertuzzi.

#2:

Hudler-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Abdelkader-Filppula-Cleary

Miller-Helm-Eaves

pros - real solid top two lines.

cons - third lines going to suck.

#3:

Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Helm-Cleary

Miller-Abdelkader-Eaves

pros - real solid top two lines.

cons - third lines going to suck.

#4:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Bertuzzi

Hudler-Helm-Cleary

Miller-Abdelkader-Eaves

pros - awesome top two lines

cons - third line sucks

#5:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Hudler-Filppula-Franzen

Bertuzzi-Helm-Cleary

Miller-Abdelkader-Eaves

pros - awesome top two lines.

cons - thid lines really going to suck.

#6:

Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Hudler-Zetterberg-Franzen

Bertuzzi-Helm-Cleary

Miller-Abdelkader-Eaves

pros - awesome top two lines.

cons - third lines really going to suck.

Edited by blueadams

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I don't think we're going to see Homer playing up on the top 2 lines... his value is more

on the PP at this point in his career. He ended up playing a lot of 4th line time to try

and keep him healthy. And I don't believe Fil is going back down to the 3rd line. He showed

that given time with skill players he can be effective.

Bert - Z - Franzen

Fil - Datz - Huds

Eaves - Helm - Cleary

Miller/Abs - Draper - Homer

Lids-Rafalski

Stuart-Kronwall

Erickson-Janik/Kindl

Howard

Ozzie

I'm still not thrilled about signing Bert and going after Eaves and Miller when we could have

used that $$ along with trading Cleary to try and bring in some scoring punch. This team is

going to walk a fine line between great and awful. I still don't see them being up to the level

of San Jose or Chicago. If they don't make it to the Finals this year it's going to be time

to overhaul this team big time.

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I still say:

Hudler/Zetterberg/Franzen

Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Eaves

Cleary/Filppula/Bertuzzi

Abdelkader/Helm/Miller?

Draper???

Lidstrom/Ericsson

Kronwall/Rafalski

Kindl?/Stuart

Meech/Janik/Lilja/???

Howard

Osgood

Ritola/Eaves/Miller and possibly even Helm/Draper/Abdelkader are included in a playoff for the last couple forward spots, possibly along with training camp invitees or prospects like McGrath, Emmerton, Oulahen, etc.

Meech/Janik, possibly Lilja if retained, and/or any other potential UFA signing, plus any potential training camp invitee or prospect would have to fight for the last couple of defense spots as well.

Figure if a guy like Ritola or Meech with skill and potential doesn't make it he gets dealt, so that might give them an edge if it's close, but likely works against them, if they are behind one or two guys.

I continue to maintain this position. The one thing I forgot to mention:

I currently have Eaves in the second-line shooter role. According to my earlier post, one of Eaves, Ritola, or Miller would not make the 13-man forward roster and would be sent to Grand Rapids. If it were Eaves, then that hole would have to be filled. Depending on Ritola's performance in training camp and exhibition, he may end up on that line, the third line with Cleary stepping up, the fourth line with Cleary and Miller each moving up a line, or perhaps he's the spare forward and Cleary is on the second, Miller the third, and Draper the fourth. But, as Eaves is probably the best player of the three, I think he'll be around next season.

Edited by eva unit zero

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