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#81 newfy

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 06:41 PM

Err... what? You're hilarious. Maybe you should try again.

Wow, I need to make some kinda list so I can safely say that players can still have potential at their late 20's? He's 28 btw, not 30.

Way to read my post, once again proving my signature. He won't play any role at all in teh NHL til he's 30 is what I'm saying.. Now whats in your finnish water over there that is going to allow him to stop his body from declining shortly after the age of 30?

I would expect it from a tough North American player to be able to play through a decline in his body strength but a soft fin, not so much. :cool:

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#82 Finnish Wing

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 06:56 PM

Way to read my post, once again proving my signature. He won't play any role at all in teh NHL til he's 30 is what I'm saying.. Now whats in your finnish water over there that is going to allow him to stop his body from declining shortly after the age of 30?

I would expect it from a tough North American player to be able to play through a decline in his body strength but a soft fin, not so much. :cool:

OK. I'm not gonna say anything about that, because that isn't what we were arguing about in the first place.

You basically said that players 28 or older don't have potential. I'm saying they do.

About that body declining. I wouldn't say it's shortly after 30 when player's body starts to decline. I'd say it's closer to 35 than 30. In fact I don't know any player who at age of 33 for example have started to decline. Injuries are injuries of course.

Yeah, "soft Finns" like Teemu Selanne are definitely great examples of body declining. I'd say the only two major reasons for North American players being in better physical shape are a) the number of people living in NA (quantity provides quality) and b) the use of steroids, stimulants and such to get to the top (not saying they're not used outside NA, but they're way more common there). I'm pretty happy being a Finn. Only 5 million people living here makes you feel you're actually part something.

Edited by Finnish Wing, 20 June 2010 - 06:58 PM.

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#83 Hockey Convert

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 06:59 PM

Please be civilized folks.


Seriously, I'm scratching my head as to why there are two pages about Ilari Filppula in a thread entitled "Zenon Konopka"...

Anyway, I haven't seen Konopka play much, but he seems like the type I'd like to see the Wings get: willing to police, and take an instigator if there's a blatant cheap shot. If he's solid defensively, as has been said, I say go for it, Ken.

#84 newfy

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 07:04 PM

OK. I'm not gonna say anything about that, because that isn't what we were arguing about in the first place.

You basically said that players 28 or older don't have potential. I'm saying they do.

About that body declining. I wouldn't say it's shortly after 30 when player's body starts to decline. I'd say it's closer to 35 than 30. In fact I don't know any player who at age of 33 for example have started to decline. Injuries are injuries of course.

Yeah, "soft Finns" like Teemu Selanne are definitely great examples of body declining. I'd say the only two major reasons for North American players being in better physical shape are a) the number of people living in NA (quantity provides quality) and b) the use of steroids, stimulants and such to get to the top (not saying they're not used outside NA, but they're way more common there). I'm pretty happy being a Finn. Only 5 million people living here makes you feel you're actually part something.

That is exactly what we were arguing about. How do you expect him to tap into some NHL potential when he won't play a role in the NHL at all until he is 30 years old? and shortly after 30 is close to 35. 33 is the age I said which is shortly after 30 and close to 35.

What kind of potential are you talking about this guy having? The potential to be a top 6 center in the AHL, then I agree he has potential but since this is a red wings board he has nearly 0 potential with the red wings.

RIP BOB PROBERT #24


#85 Finnish Wing

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 07:16 PM

That is exactly what we were arguing about. How do you expect him to tap into some NHL potential when he won't play a role in the NHL at all until he is 30 years old? and shortly after 30 is close to 35. 33 is the age I said which is shortly after 30 and close to 35.

What kind of potential are you talking about this guy having? The potential to be a top 6 center in the AHL, then I agree he has potential but since this is a red wings board he has nearly 0 potential with the red wings.

Nope, it wasn't. The first argument stands still. You said he doesn't have any potential because he's "already" 28. You still haven't proved why and I doubt you ever can't.

Where did I say I expect him to even be an NHLer in the future? Where did I say that, please tell me? Or are you - yet again - trying to twist my words?

I wouldn't say 3 years is "shortly after", even if an average hockey career is 35 or something like that.

We're closer to the actual point. You see, I didn't say anything regarding this guys potential. It's all made up by you. Ahh, so because this is a Red Wings board that means we don't discuss about AHL and potential only means if you get to play in the NHL, right? I'm not gonna say he couldn't play in the NHL in the future, but I'm not gonna say he will either. And just because he doesn't have potential with the Red Wings doesn't mean he couldn't have a future in some other team. It's still called potential you know.

You still haven't realized that this whole conversation started when you stated (yet again) something you had no idea of and couldn't prove. I only questioned it and I still havent got a solid answer.

WHY CAN'T PLAYERS OVER THE AGE OF 28 STILL HAVE POTENTIAL AND IMPROVE THEIR GAME?
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#86 Nhurdi

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 09:18 PM

Konopka looks like a fine player from what I have seen. Would love to have him with us. With that said I just have a feeling that it won't happen.

#87 newfy

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 09:19 PM

Nope, it wasn't. The first argument stands still. You said he doesn't have any potential because he's "already" 28. You still haven't proved why and I doubt you ever can't.

Where did I say I expect him to even be an NHLer in the future? Where did I say that, please tell me? Or are you - yet again - trying to twist my words?

I wouldn't say 3 years is "shortly after", even if an average hockey career is 35 or something like that.

We're closer to the actual point. You see, I didn't say anything regarding this guys potential. It's all made up by you. Ahh, so because this is a Red Wings board that means we don't discuss about AHL and potential only means if you get to play in the NHL, right? I'm not gonna say he couldn't play in the NHL in the future, but I'm not gonna say he will either. And just because he doesn't have potential with the Red Wings doesn't mean he couldn't have a future in some other team. It's still called potential you know.

You still haven't realized that this whole conversation started when you stated (yet again) something you had no idea of and couldn't prove. I only questioned it and I still havent got a solid answer.

WHY CAN'T PLAYERS OVER THE AGE OF 28 STILL HAVE POTENTIAL AND IMPROVE THEIR GAME?

Okay so now when we talk about a player signed by the wings potential we aren't referring to his potential with the wings, its about his potential in other leagues? Okay I'm done talking about this, yeah Iflip has potential to be a great player for a junior c hockey team, so in theory you are right and I am wrong because he has potential to play Ontario Junior C hockey. My apologies Finnish wing.

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#88 soonboomer

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 10:58 PM

Nope, it wasn't. The first argument stands still. You said he doesn't have any potential because he's "already" 28. You still haven't proved why and I doubt you ever can't.

Where did I say I expect him to even be an NHLer in the future? Where did I say that, please tell me? Or are you - yet again - trying to twist my words?

I wouldn't say 3 years is "shortly after", even if an average hockey career is 35 or something like that.

We're closer to the actual point. You see, I didn't say anything regarding this guys potential. It's all made up by you. Ahh, so because this is a Red Wings board that means we don't discuss about AHL and potential only means if you get to play in the NHL, right? I'm not gonna say he couldn't play in the NHL in the future, but I'm not gonna say he will either. And just because he doesn't have potential with the Red Wings doesn't mean he couldn't have a future in some other team. It's still called potential you know.

You still haven't realized that this whole conversation started when you stated (yet again) something you had no idea of and couldn't prove. I only questioned it and I still havent got a solid answer.

WHY CAN'T PLAYERS OVER THE AGE OF 28 STILL HAVE POTENTIAL AND IMPROVE THEIR GAME?



I think at age 28 you pretty much know what you've got. How many guys reach their peak/potential after that age?

#89 newfy

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 06:35 AM

I think at age 28 you pretty much know what you've got. How many guys reach their peak/potential after that age?

Guys who have been in the NHL for a few seasons being coached by the ebst coaches in the world might. Franzen is an example of this but this isn't what the situation being discussed is like.

I think you get what I'm trying to say thank god haha

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#90 stevkrause

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 07:19 AM

♫What the world needs now... is love, sweet love♫

back to the topic at hand, I'd have absolutely no problem with Konopka here, but there are others I would much rather see here and he's probably 5th or lower on my "wish-list" of 4th-line-bargain-price-sandpaper-guy

I'd still go:
1. Asham
2. Nystrom
3. Moreau (granted he's bought out)
4. Artyukin
5. Konopka

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#91 Finnish Wing

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 07:45 AM

Okay so now when we talk about a player signed by the wings potential we aren't referring to his potential with the wings, its about his potential in other leagues? Okay I'm done talking about this, yeah Iflip has potential to be a great player for a junior c hockey team, so in theory you are right and I am wrong because he has potential to play Ontario Junior C hockey. My apologies Finnish wing.

Nope. That's not what potential is either. Seems like you don't get it. He was one of the best players in FEL last year. Having potential means that he can still improve. Saying he has potential could mean being one of the best players of AHL. It could mean playing in the NHL in the future. You said he don't have potential so obviously you know something I (and many others) don't.

I think at age 28 you pretty much know what you've got. How many guys reach their peak/potential after that age?

I don't know "how many" players. What I do know it's not rare and it's possible. There have been more and more players in recent years that have come to the NHL in later years. There are many players in KHL for example who could still make the jump to NHL at late 20's. We're not talking about Franzen-like late bloomer here, but a late bloomer still. Just because he hasn't been trained with NHL coaches like Franzen or someone else, doesn't mean he couldn't be a decent NHLer in the future.


I'll end this conversation here. At least in this thread.

Edited by Finnish Wing, 21 June 2010 - 08:25 AM.

Detroit Red Wings & Tampereen Ilves forever!

#92 soonboomer

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 07:57 PM

Nope. That's not what potential is either. Seems like you don't get it. He was one of the best players in FEL last year. Having potential means that he can still improve. Saying he has potential could mean being one of the best players of AHL. It could mean playing in the NHL in the future. You said he don't have potential so obviously you know something I (and many others) don't.

I don't know "how many" players. What I do know it's not rare and it's possible. There have been more and more players in recent years that have come to the NHL in later years. There are many players in KHL for example who could still make the jump to NHL at late 20's. We're not talking about Franzen-like late bloomer here, but a late bloomer still. Just because he hasn't been trained with NHL coaches like Franzen or someone else, doesn't mean he couldn't be a decent NHLer in the future.


I'll end this conversation here. At least in this thread.


So be it...........but as an impartial observer, Newfy is more right on this subject than you are.

#93 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 09:40 PM

I'm thinking the same..
"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

RIP Bob Probert
RIP Wade Belak
RIP Derek Boogaard
RIP Rick Rypien

#94 Finnish Wing

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 07:26 AM

So be it...........but as an impartial observer, Newfy is more right on this subject than you are.

I'm sorry, what's the subject again? I don't think you even know what you're talking about.

I'm thinking the same..

Well that's a surprise! All you basically do here is agree with what other people say without ever saying anything useful yourself.
Detroit Red Wings & Tampereen Ilves forever!

#95 Hockey Convert

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 08:40 AM

Maybe we should go over again, what having potential even means, because it doesn't seem totally clear. In some other thread though...

I'll end this conversation here. At least in this thread.


Since there seems little chance of these predictions coming true, I'll just try to contribute...


Konopka has more potential than Filppula. Discuss.

:D

#96 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 09:26 AM

I'm sorry, what's the subject again? I don't think you even know what you're talking about.

Well that's a surprise! All you basically do here is agree with what other people say without ever saying anything useful yourself.

There's no point in arguing with you cause you think you know everything about anything.I used to try to argue with you but I've noticed you resort to personal attacks once more people disagree with you.Is everyone like that over there?
"Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct in which the score is kept."

RIP Bob Probert
RIP Wade Belak
RIP Derek Boogaard
RIP Rick Rypien

#97 Finnish Wing

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 09:33 AM

There's no point in arguing with you cause you think you know everything about anything.I used to try to argue with you but I've noticed you resort to personal attacks once more people disagree with you.Is everyone like that over there?

You don't have any idea what I think. I'm not the one here who makes ridicolous statements about players I haven't even seen play.

Personal attacks. :D Yeah right. If even half of what you said was true there... but it isn't. I thought "tough guys" like you were supposed to stand up for themselves. Did I hurt you now?

It's kinda hard to argue with you as well because barely anything that you post here has any real value for the conversation. Also the outlook of your text is terrible considering you're a native English speaker.

Edited by Finnish Wing, 22 June 2010 - 09:34 AM.

Detroit Red Wings & Tampereen Ilves forever!

#98 stevkrause

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 09:37 AM

I keep coming in here, hoping to see some more videos, or updates to this thread that are relevant and yet, all I see are 3 pages of bickering.

I think it's time for a mod to lock this thread and put an end to this already...

All I have to say about Holland and our off-season:

Here in this thread

Here in this one as well

Here in this one too

and finally

Here


Holland is a damn good GM. period.


#99 Finnish Wing

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 09:41 AM

I keep coming in here, hoping to see some more videos, or updates to this thread that are relevant and yet, all I see are 3 pages of bickering.

I think it's time for a mod to lock this thread and put an end to this already...

I agree with this. I would've stopped this yesterday, but seems like some guys want more. This thread has little to do with Zenon Konopka.
Detroit Red Wings & Tampereen Ilves forever!

#100 Hockey Convert

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 09:44 AM

This thread has little to do with Zenon Konopka.


...which is largely your fault, yes.





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