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Guest DatsyukianDeke13

Who Do The Wings Draft in the First Round?

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You go ahead and keeping dreaming about how you think the NHL works, I'll stick to how the NHL really works...he is a 4th at best and your completely overrating him as a defenseman.

McIlrath is great and is a asset to any team because he is a damn good player and will turn out to be a damn good enforcer as well...but he isn't no top NHL defenseman and no team is going to put a defenseman who spends 200 minutes in the box as a top 3 defenseman. This isn't the NHL from the past where guys like Mark Tinordi could spend 150 minutes in the box and the team would manage...now a days you lose a guy on your second pairing for 5-7 minutes per fight and your screwing yourself on that second pairing. He will likely be a very solid 5th d-man as then when he is in the box the top 2 pairings will be able to play their game without having to get to know another defenseman to pair with while there regular partner is in the box. (not sure if what I just said makes sense)

Again you will see when he makes the NHL in the next couple years wherever he ends up.

How the NHL works? I know how the NHL works trust me. A guy who is good enough to play as a second defenseman isn't going to be held back because he is tough. Thats even better that he is tough like that and his toughness isn't going to stop him fro being as good as he can be. He`s making noise right now and fighting to get noticed and its worked because he`s proved he has that edge to go along with his strong defensive, shut down game. When he gets to the NHL if he good enough to be a number 2 his coaches will tell him to tone down the fighting and do it only when necessary.

Pronger is a top 3 defenseman in this league and he spends consistent time in the box. Chara is the exact same and those guys are top 5 in the whole league, not just top 2 on their team. Just because LIdstrom and Rafalski don`t get in fights doesn`t mean that its unheard of to have a guy like that in your top 2 or 3.

And just curious... why is it that 10 years ago you could have top pairing guys fighting but now you can`t?

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Pronger spent 79 minutes in the box last year.

Chara spent 87 minutes in the box last year.

Together combined they didn't catch what McIlrath had last year and thats not the point. Are you expecting McIlrath to become the next Pronger or Chara? There isn't a top 4 defenseman in the league who gets 150+ pims to my knowledge...might not even be a top 4 with 100+ for all I know.

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Normally I would agree... but this is a really light draft in terms of skill. You'd have to pick in the top 10 to guarantee a first line/first paring player, almost everyone in the draft has upside...but. The advantage that the Wings have are they allow players to develop their upsides and clean up their buts (no pun intended) before they ever have to play an NHL game.

Dylan McIlrath provides enough physical upside and solid defensive skills that he is a worthy 21st (or higher) pick, not to say that there aren't a few others. I think if the Wings go defense, and he's available they will take him.

I think that's a good argument to make for him then. If the talent level really is that light, drafting for a 2nd pairing tough guy who can shut players down and frustrate them is smart. Look at what the Canadians D did to Crawwwwsby this year-- he was a non-factor in most of the games in that series.

The report also says his development curve is huge and he is showing offensive flashes. He is a for sure NHLer at least as a 5/6 defenseman enforcer type, but will most likely be a solid number 3 and borderline #2.

A top pairing dfenseman would be very good in this years weaker draft, if he slips to us we're lucky.

Didn't someone say that Holland had McIlrath on his list of names to scout at the start of this year? I'm positive I read something along those lines earlier in the year. So Kenny seems to like that kids' game well enough.

If the argument that the talent level is light this year is valid (and I don't really know for sure since I'm pretty new to reading into these drafts so in depth) then I can definitely live with taking McIlrath.

Pronger spent 79 minutes in the box last year.

Chara spent 87 minutes in the box last year.

Together combined they didn't catch what McIlrath had last year and thats not the point. Are you expecting McIlrath to become the next Pronger or Chara? There isn't a top 4 defenseman in the league who gets 150+ pims to my knowledge...might not even be a top 4 with 100+ for all I know.

Pronger spent less than 80 mins in the box? Where's the calf-stompin', spearing, knee-on-knee Pronger of old?

F.Michael likes this

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I'd kill to see Weber in a Wings jersey. No question there. I just long for a guy with more offensive upside.

I'm not saying I'd be disappointed to see the Wings pick McIlrath but I'd much rather they go after a kid like Kabanov who has top 5 talent but has slipped for reasons a team like Detroit can fix (well we'll see how they deal with Smith before I go that far...).

If we did get McIlrath he could step right into the line-up now but that would leave 3 of the 7 d-men as sophomores or rookies.

When I said more offensive upside I meant then McIlrath, not Weber-- he's a Norris quality d-man right now.

We already have 3 defenseman that's all offense in lidstrom, rafalski and kronwall, we need a FREIGHT TRAIN, a fearless defensive defenseman back there who will be so tough to play against, why cant you see it?

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I'm getting sold. It would be nice to grab someone like this in later rounds, but they always go early. A defensively sound big guy that is mean and nasty is just what is desperately lacking from this team. There are plenty of defensemen on the roster and in the system that can put up points, but very few with a legitimate snarl.

I keep hoping Kolosov can be that guy.

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I think that's a good argument to make for him then. If the talent level really is that light, drafting for a 2nd pairing tough guy who can shut players down and frustrate them is smart. Look at what the Canadians D did to Crawwwwsby this year-- he was a non-factor in most of the games in that series.

Didn't someone say that Holland had McIlrath on his list of names to scout at the start of this year? I'm positive I read something along those lines earlier in the year. So Kenny seems to like that kids' game well enough.

If the argument that the talent level is light this year is valid (and I don't really know for sure since I'm pretty new to reading into these drafts so in depth) then I can definitely live with taking McIlrath.

Pronger spent less than 80 mins in the box? Where's the calf-stompin', spearing, knee-on-knee Pronger of old?

Yeah Holland had that list of highlighted players on an interview or something that a guy here zoomed in on and read. But yeah all I've read is that after about the 10th pick the draft is not very deep talent wise at all. And its not like this guy would be a second pairing guy, he would most likely be the anchor of a tough second pairing shutdown duo and would probably be capable of top pairing minutes.

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Players who are more physical; bigger and faster usually play better in junior leagues when other guys haven't still grown up to their full size and shape. Talented guys start playing well later, as they gain more pounds or fix their skating. More physical players usually play better playing against kids, but once they come into the big league the difference is much smaller.

Edited by Finnish Wing

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Pronger spent 79 minutes in the box last year.

Chara spent 87 minutes in the box last year.

Together combined they didn't catch what McIlrath had last year and thats not the point. Are you expecting McIlrath to become the next Pronger or Chara? There isn't a top 4 defenseman in the league who gets 150+ pims to my knowledge...might not even be a top 4 with 100+ for all I know.

Chara and Pronger are both getting older now and their tough side is slowing down a bit. Go look at their PIM numbers early in their career, not far off from what Mcilrath has now. And no I'm not saying he'll be the next Chara or Pronger but I'm saying top Dmen can take penalties. Adam Foote was a more then aserviceable defenseman and top 2 on teh avs for a long time if I remember correctly and he was putting up those kind of penalty minutes as well.

Guys get a lot of PIMs when theyre younger is what I'm saying compared to when they are older because when they are older they have developed and are better players then just "goons". If Mcilrath becomes good enought o be a top 2 then he will be a top 2 his toughness and fihgting won't stop that.

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Players who are more physical; bigger and faster usually play better in junior leagues when other guys haven't still grown up to their full size and shape. Talented guys start playing well later, as they gain more pounds or fix their skating. More physical players usually play better playing against kids, but once they come into the big league the difference is much smaller.

This is true, and it is how the Wings manage to find gems in the later rounds of the draft. However, the players that haven't grown into their frame have uncertain futures. No one knows if I player will ever develop the physical or skill level to play in the NHL if they haven't reached it by 18 (or have the potential). The later rounds of the draft are filled with these 'potential' players that never hit that next level. Someone who is 6'4" and 210+ pounds (McIlrath) will not have trouble being a physical force in the NHL.

Would anyone here be disappointed if McIlrath (or any other defensemen drafted by the Wings in the first) became a solid #4 defensemen? You can't draft a top pair (or top line) player every year, and I'd be delighted to get a solid #4 defensemen in the system.

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This is true, and it is how the Wings manage to find gems in the later rounds of the draft. However, the players that haven't grown into their frame have uncertain futures. No one knows if I player will ever develop the physical or skill level to play in the NHL if they haven't reached it by 18 (or have the potential). The later rounds of the draft are filled with these 'potential' players that never hit that next level. Someone who is 6'4" and 210+ pounds (McIlrath) will not have trouble being a physical force in the NHL.

Would anyone here be disappointed if McIlrath (or any other defensemen drafted by the Wings in the first) became a solid #4 defensemen? You can't draft a top pair (or top line) player every year, and I'd be delighted to get a solid #4 defensemen in the system.

This is true, looka t how important Stuart is to this team but he is our number 4. He was a #3 overall pick so at 21 if you can get a guy that fills his role youre doing pretty good.

As for the skill guys getting better as tehy fill into their frame, that is true but they also do better blowing around younger kids and stick handling through young defenseman. A lot of times these high skill guys don't translate to anything special in the NHL.

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As for the skill guys getting better as tehy fill into their frame, that is true but they also do better blowing around younger kids and stick handling through young defenseman. A lot of times these high skill guys don't translate to anything special in the NHL.

You can gain more speed and more pounds. Those are the main things why certain players play much better in juniors. You can't teach talent however, and those skilled guys will start to take advantage once they grow up a little - which happens partly naturally as well. So it's definitely more advantage to McIlrath-type guys than Kabanov-type guys when in junior leagues.

But yeah, if you wanna take zero risk you could draft the player who is already physical and NHL-ready but may probably have nowhere near the potential that talented guy has. It may take more time for the talented guy to get into the big league, but it also usually means becoming a better player eventually.

McIlrath and Kabanov where just examples. I'm not saying "don't draft McIlrath", because I'm in no position to say that. I don't know enough about the player, but I think I do know what type of player we are talking about.

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finnish wing will cream himself 10 times over if the wings draft pulkkinen

Yup. While some others will insist on calling him Puke-inen.

I was just stirring the pot with that CBC link.

I really don't put too much stock in Mock Drafts. Obviously the basic hockey mind will assume that Holland and Nill will take a small skilled Euro based on cliches and sterotypes.

Hell, the way the hockey world views the Wings I could see them expecting Detroit to draft a 40 year old goalie. You know, because the team is so "old". :cool:

Either way, the Wings first selection in each of the last 4 years has been North American.

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Either way, the Wings first selection in each of the last 4 years has been North American.

Dylan-McIlrath-150x150.jpg

I want to be a Red Wing ;)

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Yup. While some others will insist on calling him Puke-inen.

I was just stirring the pot with that CBC link.

I really don't put too much stock in Mock Drafts. Obviously the basic hockey mind will assume that Holland and Nill will take a small skilled Euro based on cliches and sterotypes.

Hell, the way the hockey world views the Wings I could see them expecting Detroit to draft a 40 year old goalie. You know, because the team is so "old". :cool:

Either way, the Wings first selection in each of the last 4 years has been North American.

Thats why I don't like mocks either. Detroit tries to hit homeruns with small, skilled euros in the later rounds. They usually go for decent sized, more proven guys in the first round or early second.

Allt eh drafts say stuff like oh you can expect maybe some swede we've never heard of at this pick, but when have the wings ever went that far off the board in the first round?

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Yeah Mock drafts never work out.

Alexander Petrovic is a name I didn't expect to see in the 1st round. I thought from most scouting boards he was in the late second round and the Wings could get him in the next round. I don't read many mock drafts but I think that's the first I've seen him going in the first round. I like him and at mid-late second round he would be a steal. I don't know about first round though.

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I think no matter what happens with out first round pick, we are going to get a very good player. I think it will just be a matter of risk vs reward. We don't get first round picks very often so we have to make them count when we do.

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I think no matter what happens with out first round pick, we are going to get a very good player. I think it will just be a matter of risk vs reward. We don't get first round picks very often so we have to make them count when we do.

But as we all know we make it count much later in the draft too. But I hear ya we definitely need to go for it this year.

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Yeah Mock drafts never work out.

Alexander Petrovic is a name I didn't expect to see in the 1st round. I thought from most scouting boards he was in the late second round and the Wings could get him in the next round. I don't read many mock drafts but I think that's the first I've seen him going in the first round. I like him and at mid-late second round he would be a steal. I don't know about first round though.

Petrovic is lingering around the end of the first and earlyish second. If you take him past the 10th pick or so in the second then youre probably getting a steal.

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Ok guys. This McIlrath man love is insanity sauce. A stay at home d-man with a high first round pick? If we were picking 29th, maybe, and I'd still be mad. If he doesn't legitametly have a real offensive upside, you don't pick that kinda player that high. THN had him in the first round but somewhere in the 20's.

Also, contrary to what some have said, this is suppossed to be a deep draft.

My guy is Jeff Skinner, he's proven. I've heard rave reviews on him and that he could fall cause he's only like 5'10. The kinda guy that looks to be in our picks range or in the few pick trade up window.

If we trade down, one of those picks has to be us taking a flier on Kabanov if he's there. THN said we'll take Burmistrov because if anyone can get a russian to stay it'll be the Wings. Take that philosophy and put it to Kirill. (That said, given how the Wings are run, its probably a stretch.

cjm502 and Finnish Wing like this

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Jeff Skinner will be picked around 10, dream on

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Ok guys. This McIlrath man love is insanity sauce. A stay at home d-man with a high first round pick? If we were picking 29th, maybe, and I'd still be mad. If he doesn't legitametly have a real offensive upside, you don't pick that kinda player that high. THN had him in the first round but somewhere in the 20's.

Also, contrary to what some have said, this is suppossed to be a deep draft.

My guy is Jeff Skinner, he's proven. I've heard rave reviews on him and that he could fall cause he's only like 5'10. The kinda guy that looks to be in our picks range or in the few pick trade up window.

If we trade down, one of those picks has to be us taking a flier on Kabanov if he's there. THN said we'll take Burmistrov because if anyone can get a russian to stay it'll be the Wings. Take that philosophy and put it to Kirill. (That said, given how the Wings are run, its probably a stretch.

Yeah god forbid you dont get a guy who will score 50 goals every season in the late first round. A huge shut down defender who will be top 3 on a team and can beat up anyone in the league is a horrible pick at 21. Its not exactly like we're picking in the top 10.

He does have offensive upside, he isn't going to lead defenseman in points or anything but he will be good enough offensively and his defense will make up for it.

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