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Sounds like the wings are looking for size


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#1 newfy

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:23 PM

Detroit -- It's not like the Red Wings have the NHL equivalent of a lottery pick this year; it just feels like it.

They will pick 21st in the NHL draft Friday night in Los Angeles, the second-highest draft pick they've had in 20 years.

"We're pretty excited about it," general manager Ken Holland said. "Other than after the work-stoppage year (2005, when the draft order was selected from a blind lottery) when we had the 19th pick (Jakub Kindl), this is as high as we've drafted in a long time. We're usually picking from 25 to 30."

The philosophy, though, does not change.

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"It's the old cliché, but we will look at the best player available at that time," Holland said. "It will probably be a skater; I don't see us taking a goaltender. But with us, regardless of the draft position, the player we draft is a minimum of three years and a maximum of five years away. So you just want to draft an asset and hope he'll be ready five years from now."
'Intriguing' draft class

Both Holland and assistant general manager Jim Nill said they weren't targeting a specific position. They feel the organization depth is solid both up front and on the blue line.

"This is one of the most I don't want to say difficult but one of the most intriguing draft classes we've seen in a while," Nill said. "Every draft class has 10 to 15 no-brainers, then it usually drops off. There are usually another 30 players that you like but each has some major flaw."

The trick, Nill said, is trying to project which players will overcome those flaws in three to five years.

"We are always looking to get bigger up front, but you look at it, there could be eight to 10 skilled, little forwards available to us," Nill said. "At one time, Henrik Zetterberg and Pavel Datsyuk were skilled, little forwards and they worked out pretty good.

"There could also be eight to 10 defensemen who are 6-3 or 6-4. All have something you love but only one is going to be a Shea Weber. Which one is it?

"Of the 30 players who we might consider, three or four will be high-end players. It's our job to figure out which one."

Holland did not rule out the possibility of the Wings moving up or down in the first round, according to how things shake out before they pick at 21.

"It's just a gut instinct on Friday night," Holland said. "If all of a sudden somebody we really like starts to slide, we could get aggressive and try to move up. Or, if there are three or four guys we like still available, maybe we trade down to get a few more spins at the wheel. The more picks you get over time, the better your odds are."
Future Wings?

Here's a list of players the Red Wings will consider with the 21st pick Friday. They are listed in order of their prospects ranking by the Hockey News.

9. Nick Bjugstad , Blaine, Minn., 6-4, 188, center: He was Minnesota preps Mr. Hockey and he's bound for the University of Minnesota. Big, strong and extremely raw.

11. Derek Forbort , Duluth, Minn., 6-5, 198, defenseman: He played on the U.S. under-18 team and drew comparisons to Buffalo D Tyler Myers. He's a big kid who can move the puck.

14. Valdimir Tarasenko , Russia, 5-11, 200, right wing: Some scouts have said he's the most talented player in the draft, but his commitment to play in the KHL lowers his value.

15. Austin Watson , Ann Arbor, 6-3, 185, right wing: After a year-and-a-half with the Windsor Spitfires, Watson was traded to Peterborough. He has some grit to his game, as well.

18. Evgenyi Kuznetsov , Russia, 6-0, 174, center: Streaky but highly skilled. Signed to play in the KHL the next two seasons, but that won't deter Wings.

19. Riley Sheahan , St. Catherines, Ont., 6-2, 202, center: He didn't produce much offense at Notre Dame as a freshman, but he earned raves from scouts for his defensive acumen.

21. Tyler Pitlick , Centerville, Minn., 6-2, 194, center: A rugged, grinder-type player, he is expected to leave Minnesota State and play in the Western Hockey League next year.

22. Jarred Tinordi , Millersville, Md., 6-5, 205, defenseman: He's the son of former NHL D Mark Tinordi, and he inherited his father's feistiness. Fortunately, he skates far better than dad.

31. Jon Merrill , Brighton, 6-3, 198, defenseman: Projects to be a solid, safe-playing defensive defenseman, which every team covets.

40. Tyler Toffoli , Scarborough, Ont., 6-0, 183, right wing: Another of those small, skilled forwards Jim Nill talked about. Not a great skater, though.

45. Justin Faulk , St. Paul, Minn., 6-0, 196, defenseman: An offensively skilled D-man, he will play at University of Minnesota-Duluth next season.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/a...t#ixzz0rnQ52ECC




Sounds to me like the wings wanna get some size in the system since the pick is fairly high. There will be guys at that position who are 6'4 like he was saying. He also said that thing about who will be the next Shea Weber, makes you wonder if he's looking at a defenseman like that.

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#2 jollymania

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:27 PM

Wouldn't McIlraith be in the mix too? hes in the 10-15 range
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#3 newfy

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:32 PM

Wouldn't McIlraith be in the mix too? hes in the 10-15 range

Yeah they list guys like Watson, Forbort and Bjustad who are all higher rated then Mcilrath for the draft but for some reason they didn't list Mcilrath. If they are thinking Tinnordi could be a pick then Mcilrath should definitely be on the radar as well.

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#4 Shaman

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:46 PM

Valdimir Tarasenko , Russia, 5-11, 200, right wing: Some scouts have said he's the most talented player in the draft, but his commitment to play in the KHL lowers his value.


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#5 newfy

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:48 PM

Valdimir Tarasenko , Russia, 5-11, 200, right wing: Some scouts have said he's the most talented player in the draft, but his commitment to play in the KHL lowers his value.


Yes please

Doesn't the commitment to play in the KHL make you wanna take someone that will for sure be over here and could be a top line player?

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#6 Shaman

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:50 PM

Doesn't the commitment to play in the KHL make you wanna take someone that will for sure be over here and could be a top line player?

Well with Holland wanting players to wait 3 to 5 years and his commitment to be in the KHL only being for the next couple years, and the KHL being comparable to the AHL I would say this isn't that bad of a thing for the wings.
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#7 PROBIE4PREZ

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:54 PM

anybody with size and is from NA will do thanks
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#8 Finnish Wing

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 02:34 PM

Doesn't the commitment to play in the KHL make you wanna take someone that will for sure be over here and could be a top line player?

Who exactly is this kinda player then? You have to take risks. It's the draft for God's sake. Draft only "zero risk" physically ready guys every year and I bet you won't stay a winning organization for long. You have to compare the risk and the reward. A guy like Tarasenko actually has huge potential even though there are some risks. Don't tell me you would really draft McIlrath over him as well?

This is starting to make me feel sick.

Edited by Finnish Wing, 24 June 2010 - 02:36 PM.

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#9 Buppy

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 02:37 PM

I can't imagine Forbort falling far enough for us to get him, but he would be an awesome pick. Looks to be much more well-rounded than McIlrath. He'd be perfect if he was a righty. He, McIlrath, Tinordi, Merrill, or Pysyk (though people would hate that pick I'm sure) would all be nice options on defense.

Unless Forbort does fall, I think I'd rather go for a forward in the first round, and look for someone like Brock Beukeboom, Mark Alt, or Danny Biega in the 2nd.

For the forwards, Niederreiter would be a great fit, though like Forbort there's probably zero chance he falls far enough. Emerson Etem looks nice too. Howden, Nelson, Sheahan, and Watson would be my other choices.

Kabanov, McFarland, and Tarasenko all a bit riskier than I'd like, but they could pay off. Don't know too much about the Euros this year, but Pulkkinen sounds pretty good.

#10 uk_redwing

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 02:38 PM

Who exactly is this kinda player then? You have to take risks. It's the draft for God's sake. Draft only "zero risk" physically ready guys every year and I bet you won't be a winning organization anyomore. You have to compare the risk and the reward. A guy like Tarasenko actually has huge potential even though there are some risks. Don't tell me you would really draft McIlrath over him as well?

This is starting to make me feel sick.


What are you seriously on about? No one mentioning drafting "zero risk tough guys." We're just talking about getting some bigger bodies in our team.

You need some chill pills...and some nausea pills.

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#11 HankthaTank

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 02:40 PM

What are you seriously on about? No one mentioning drafting "zero risk tough guys." We're just talking about getting some bigger bodies in our team.

You need some chill pills...and some nausea pills.

Midol, perhaps. We do need to get bigger and tougher. Skill has always been the thing for sure and no one is discounting that. But we have to stop getting pushed around.
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#12 Carman

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 02:43 PM

Tinordi is looking good.

Has good size, uses it and some offensive potential.

#13 Finnish Wing

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 02:53 PM

What are you seriously on about? No one mentioning drafting "zero risk tough guys." We're just talking about getting some bigger bodies in our team.

What I'm on about is that there are actually some fans who would draft Dylan McIlrath on the first round over Granlund or Tarasenko if all were available. Seems ridiculous to me. So no, we're not just talking about getting bigger when someone even considers taking McIlrath over Tarasenko.

And yes, someone's afraid to take the risk. Afraid to take the risk with Tarasenko, who has realistic 1st potential and rather taking a defender who has realistic second pairing potential. I can't imagine any other reason for that except fearing small risks or choosing the player based on nationality.

Once again: you can't teach talent, but you can fix the skating and fix the physical game.

Midol, perhaps. We do need to get bigger and tougher. Skill has always been the thing for sure and no one is discounting that. But we have to stop getting pushed around.

It's not about skill, it's about talent. Just because we need to "stop getting pushed around" doesn't mean we should make stupid decisions in this years draft. Even if we drafted McIlrath it would take three or more years for him being a real physical factor for us in the big team.

You can make a trade to get more physical or sign some free agent. But you should always draft primary based on who's the best out there and what you would sacrifice (which should never be talent) when getting him, not based on what you need right now. Of course it should affect as well, but it should never be the biggest factor.

Edited by Finnish Wing, 24 June 2010 - 02:54 PM.

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#14 Carman

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 02:58 PM

Some fans simply prefer drafting players they've personally seen play rather than a foreign player they don't know much about and haven't watched develop.

Also the KHL is a factor, especially considering what happened with Hudler. So that is another added risk considering a European player is more likely to rather than a North American. Not saying it's fair or right.

#15 Buppy

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 03:23 PM

What I'm on about is that there are actually some fans who would draft Dylan McIlrath on the first round over Granlund or Tarasenko if all were available. Seems ridiculous to me. So no, we're not just talking about getting bigger when someone even considers taking McIlrath over Tarasenko.

And yes, someone's afraid to take the risk. Afraid to take the risk with Tarasenko, who has realistic 1st potential and rather taking a defender who has realistic second pairing potential. I can't imagine any other reason for that except fearing small risks or choosing the player based on nationality.
...


Tarasenko strikes me as a player who'd bolt back to Russia at the first sign of adversity. Nor does he seem to be so talented that he's a sure thing for a top 6 role. I don't know that I'd take McIlrath over him, but I'd take Forbort. And it's not like a top 6 forward is that much more valuable than a 2nd pair defenseman, so it's not so ridiculous for someone to rate McIlrath higher. Hell, depending on how much of an impact player he becomes, he might not even be as valuable as a 4th defenseman. I wouldn't say Homer is more valuable than Stuart or Kronwall, and I don't think it's any sure bet that Tarasenko will be better than Homer, nor that McIlrath will be worse than Stuart/Kronwall.

#16 Finnish Wing

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 03:23 PM

Some fans simply prefer drafting players they've personally seen play rather than a foreign player they don't know much about and haven't watched develop.

Also the KHL is a factor, especially considering what happened with Hudler. So that is another added risk considering a European player is more likely to rather than a North American. Not saying it's fair or right.

How many fans here have even seen any games of these guys they're suggesting?

I agree the KHL is risk, especially with Russian players. But how big that risk is anyway? You have to think about what you could get when taking that small risk. Need to think about the reward also. Also, I'd say this organization has done pretty good with Europeans in the past as well and seem to make things work out.

It's kinda like in poker. You have to consider how much there is at stake before you make the bid. It would be stupid to fold when you've got a good hand and there's only small risk you lose it and while there is already 5000 in pot and you've only got to pay 500 to stay in the game. Sure, there's a small chance the other guy has a better hand and you would lose that 500. But you compare the risk to the reward, it would be very idiotic to fold.

I just feel Tarasenko's potential is bigger and risk only a little bigger than McIlrath's in a way that it would be stupid to even consider not taking Tarasenko.
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#17 Shaman

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 03:30 PM

Some fans simply prefer drafting players they've personally seen play rather than a foreign player they don't know much about and haven't watched develop.

Also the KHL is a factor, especially considering what happened with Hudler. So that is another added risk considering a European player is more likely to rather than a North American. Not saying it's fair or right.

Anything in the late first round has one of two potentials either high risk/high reward or solid second line/flashes of first line potential, but not a possible super star. If you go for the first, you could bust out and lose them, but they could become superstars too. The wings don't have anyone in the system right now who has true star potential and i believe they should take this risk.
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#18 Finnish Wing

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 03:33 PM

Tarasenko strikes me as a player who'd bolt back to Russia at the first sign of adversity. Nor does he seem to be so talented that he's a sure thing for a top 6 role. I don't know that I'd take McIlrath over him, but I'd take Forbort. And it's not like a top 6 forward is that much more valuable than a 2nd pair defenseman, so it's not so ridiculous for someone to rate McIlrath higher. Hell, depending on how much of an impact player he becomes, he might not even be as valuable as a 4th defenseman. I wouldn't say Homer is more valuable than Stuart or Kronwall, and I don't think it's any sure bet that Tarasenko will be better than Homer, nor that McIlrath will be worse than Stuart/Kronwall.

Nothing is 100% sure in anything. Like I said, if you're only going to go after "zero risk" guys you can forget about being a winning franchise in the future. I'd say the chance of him becoming a first liner is pretty much the same as McIlrath becoming a top4 d-man.
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#19 Buppy

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 03:52 PM

Nothing is 100% sure in anything. Like I said, if you're only going to go after "zero risk" guys you can forget about being a winning franchise in the future. I'd say the chance of him becoming a first liner is pretty much the same as McIlrath becoming a top4 d-man.


I'm not saying you only go after zero risk. I'm just pointing out that Tarasenko does have the same kind of risks in development as someone like McIlrath, and also adds the 'Russian factor' and possible daddy issues that might keep him from playing or staying in NA, or at least hinder his development.

Given that, and the fact that an average top 6 forward and an average top 4 defenseman are similar in value to a team, it's hardly 'ridiculous' for someone to rate McIlrath higher. IMO, the Wings have big needs at both forward and defense. McIlrath isn't necessarily the kind of defenseman we really need (Lidstrom/Rafalski replacements), but we do have a few prospects of that type and any improvement in our D prospects would certainly help in the transition.

Like I said, I wouldn't personally take McIlrath ahead of Tarasenko, but I can see why some people would. It would be different if Tarasenko's potential was significantly higher than McIlrath's, but it isn't.

#20 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 03:53 PM

Wouldn't McIlraith be in the mix too? hes in the 10-15 range


I wouldn't put faith in the list printed in that article.

There's no way in hell Holland or Nill would reveal their draft plans to the media because they don't want to tip their hand to another club.

The guys who are suspiciously off that list (Kabanov and McIlrath for example) are equally in play as the rest of the players listed.

That list looks like the reporter assembled it themselves. I want to stress again that organizations are very secretive about their interests and draft plans.
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