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Bring Back The Bruise Bros

Power Forwards

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I don't think Zetterberg is a power forward for the simple fact he does not use physical force to get to the net he more uses good position to get by players there is a different. A power forward could just skate his way through the defenders because he is strong enough to do so. Zetterberg protects the puck keeps his body between the defender and the puck, and is strong on his skates. These skills allow him by the defenders. Zetterberg could not just take the puck and power threw the defence he has to protect the puck and use angles to get by the defence. Yzerman did the same thing when he played I remember watching him in later years of his career playing in the playoffs against either the Ducks or the Oiler don't remember what team he was playing but it was him one on one against Pronger and he used his positioning keeping his body between the puck and the Pronger and got by him. He did it multiple times in that series and we can all agree that Yzerman is not a power forward. Just cause you are strong on your skates and have good positioning that allows you to get through defenders does not make you a power forward. Power forwards do not need to rely on positioning as much because they have the size and power to outright out muscle the defender. This is why I believe that Franzen is a power forward and Zetterberg is not.

I think the fighting and penalty minutes is a useless definition to use on power forwards. I mentioned it in a previous post that any coach would prefer a player that is big and can go to the net and score then a player that can go to the net and score who also is a liability because he is always in the box. You can make the argument that the power forwards get less penalties now because of the stiffer obstruction rules. There is no need for all the rough play after a rush to the net because as soon as the power forward breachs the defenders any additional contact will result in a penalty. The obstruction calls really stop the need for any retalition on the forwards part. If you draw a penalty there is really no use to give the guy a few extra shots to make the point that you won't stand for that.

Zetterberg is sort of on the edge, but he does often push his way right through rather than go around. The pushing through is one of the things I was using to define power forwards, and it's something Zetterberg does much more than most high end scorers. Sure, not more than an Ovechkin, Iginla, Nash, Doan, or Lucic. But those guys are the kind of guys who are as close as you get to the "80s" power forward nowadays.

I'm surprised I haven't seem any backlash re:Jokinen. I was certain that was coming, because he doesn't fight.

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Fighting is something that happens in hockey, that you have to be willing to do. Zetterberg is willing to fight. Fighting is NOT a measure of skill or something necessary or required to win championships. Hopefully you can get this through your cro-magnon frontal bone to your cerebral cortex.

Fighting or at least being able to give a decent push back to someone or rough it up a bit is something that happens when youre a powerforward. Also I don't have to use "big words" or insults to try to make a point.

In my initial post I defined what I was calling a power forward, and named some players who fit that definition. Saying those players don't fit other definitions doesn't mean they don't fit the VALID definition I gave.

You see the problem with everything youre saying is that you think youre basing it on a valid definition. Any definition that has Zetterberg fitting in as a powerforward is ridiculously off base. I don't get why you have to bend everything in hockey to benefit the softer players. "Oh zetterberg can fight", "Zetterberg is a powerforward". Just because they are softer players (especially your hard on for Zetterberg) doesn't mean they have to fit in to be every single thing in hockey. A great player doesn't need to be a powerforward and you don't have to come up with retarded definitions to make him seem like on

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This is a video of Zetterberg scoring a shorthanded goal. I could not find another one of him coming on the rush. However this video does show how Zetterberg is not a power forward. He is one on one with the defense and he use skill instead of power to get by the defender. You look at most of Zetterberg goals or rush to the net he will 9 time out of ten go around the defender rather then throught him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfXSKLIpREA



This is a compilation of Franzen goals. You can see most of the goals Franzen in driving to the net or in front of the net. When he gets the puck deep in the zone he has one destination and that is the net. The last goal is the is a good example he gets the rebound and there are two Predator players right infront of him instead of trying to go around he just go straight for the net. If you compare the two goals you can see Zetterbergs moves away from the defender in order to get to the net and score where as Franzen is going straight the net most of the time. Thats the difference in my opinion between power forward and a not a power forward.

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Exactly the guys from the 80s the term was started from are the real power forwards. Guys like today are new age hybrid power forwards.

Its like comparing Killswitch engage to Black Sabbath, both are metal but killswitch is new age metal and anyone who would call Black Sabbath (cam neely is sabbath) and Killswitch (franzen is kill switch) the same variety of metal are either deaf or dumb.

But we can agree that they're both metal, and on top of that, relatively few bands nowadays play metal like Sabbath, whereas new bands are more likely to play metal similar to Killswitch rather than Sabbath. The genre has evolved.

Just thought I'd build on that analogy.

Edited by Datsyerberger

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This analogy seems to work so ill go off of it again lol (damn I'm good with analogies), like you said not many bands play like sabbath but when one comes around that does it is definitely something special and its too bad its so rare anymore. I agree franzen is a new age power forward but he is not a true power forward

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This analogy seems to work so ill go off of it again lol (damn I'm good with analogies), like you said not many bands play like sabbath but when one comes around that does it is definitely something special and its too bad its so rare anymore. I agree franzen is a new age power forward but he is not a true power forward

True, but said bands also tend not to be (as) commercially successful (oldschool powerforwards aren't as successful in today's NHL) because the tastes and demand of the market center around the newer metal (the rules of the modern NHL fit modern power forwards better than oldschool ones).

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saying z is a power forward is like saying guys like crosby and ovie are two way forwards, just because they do it sometimes doesn't make them that. And going off eva's def perry is a power forward and so is dats.

Guys like dats and z are multi tool players to take jargon from baseball a five tool player essentially

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saying z is a power forward is like saying guys like crosby and ovie are two way forwards, just because they do it sometimes doesn't make them that. And going off eva's def perry is a power forward and so is dats.

Guys like dats and z are multi tool players to take jargon from baseball a five tool player essentially

Perry would definitely fit the bill, as much more more than a lot of guys I listed. Datsyuk is capable of using his body that way but generally doesn't. The same is true of Crosby. Both of those star centers could be much more aggressive physically in creating offense instead of using their skill and awareness. Whether that would make them better offensively, I don't know. But they have the size and strength to do so , but choose not to. So while they COULD play the style, they are not power forwards. Z is much more directly physical when creating offense than Datsyuk or Crosby, due in part due to playmaking ability; Z is not the same level of playmaker, but if he clears space with his body he has a shooting lane or passing lane. Dats, Crosby, Savard, and other high-end playmakers can use their threat as a passer to open space for themselves and their teammates. Joe Thornton is a good example of a player who could be an old-school power forward, but because he's arguably the best playmaker in the league he is much less physical than he could be.

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Perry would definitely fit the bill, as much more more than a lot of guys I listed. Datsyuk is capable of using his body that way but generally doesn't. The same is true of Crosby. Both of those star centers could be much more aggressive physically in creating offense instead of using their skill and awareness. Whether that would make them better offensively, I don't know. But they have the size and strength to do so , but choose not to. So while they COULD play the style, they are not power forwards. Z is much more directly physical when creating offense than Datsyuk or Crosby, due in part due to playmaking ability; Z is not the same level of playmaker, but if he clears space with his body he has a shooting lane or passing lane. Dats, Crosby, Savard, and other high-end playmakers can use their threat as a passer to open space for themselves and their teammates. Joe Thornton is a good example of a player who could be an old-school power forward, but because he's arguably the best playmaker in the league he is much less physical than he could be.

Watch clips of Zetterberg on the rush when he is confronted by a defender. 9 times out of 10 he will skate around them or use positioning to get by the them. Very rarely do you see Zetterberg go right at the defender and straight to the net. He will try and beat them on the outside then use his momentum and body position to cut into the net. That is not how a power forward rush the net. Now go watch some clips of Franzen watch how he reacts when he gets the puck 9 times out of 10 he drives straight to the net. Watch most of Franzen goals they usually come 1 of 3 ways. First way is him driving to the net he will go right at the defence and shot it right before any contact is made but none the less its still a direct drive to the net. He also has the skill set to deke his way through the defender but if you watch him when he does it he is always heading directly for the net. Second way Franzen gets goals is off of rebound whether is standing in front or driving to the net. The third main way he scores is getting a pass for a one timer which a direct result of him driving to the net. The one thing that is common to all three of these types of goals is he is always driving to the net. Sure I know someone going to say that not all the way he scored goals I realize that he score more then in those three scenarios but the bulk of his goals are scored by driving to the net. If we look at Zetterberg goals yes he has some that come of a rebounds but his game is more find open space or create your own space by having a good position. Remember the goal Zetterberg scored against the Canucks last season with 0.3 seconds left in overtime. If you watch what he does he gets the puck moves up the boards cuts into the middle of the ice use his positioning to get a step ahead of the Canuck defender and scores. If it was Franzen in the same situation he would have pivoted and charged straight at the net. That is why Franzen is a power forward and Zetterberg is not. They play two distinct style that are not similar to each other in anyway.

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I agree the term has evolved, and sadly there are very few traditional power forwards. There is not much better than watching a guy like Shanny who could score a beautiful goal and then turn around a few minutes latter and pummel a guy. I wonder if some of the reason for the change (in addition to the fact that players in general are just getting bigger) is that coaches aren't wanting their 30 goal scores to spend that much time in the penalty box.

The pen box is the least of their worries; remember several years ago when Iginla held out for a while to get what he felt he was worth?..Well shortly after he signed, and started playing - he got into a scrap, and broke a knuckle (or was it a bone in his hand :unsure: )...His scoring prowess really suffered, and many critics jumped on him for the big pay day, and lack of production...It was late in the season that the truth came out concerning his injury, but Iginla never went public with it, nor used it as an excuse.

Good on him for how he handled things, but it's too bad that he had the injury, and he took alot of heat, but it's 1 major reason why certain coaches/gms don't want their star players dropping the mitts.

I agree though - loved the days of Shanny kicking ass, and scoring goals (something every hockey player should be capable of doing - well in my mind anyways :P ), and would love to see a guy like Iginla on our roster as well :thumbup:

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Zetterberg is sort of on the edge, but he does often push his way right through rather than go around. The pushing through is one of the things I was using to define power forwards, and it's something Zetterberg does much more than most high end scorers. Sure, not more than an Ovechkin, Iginla, Nash, Doan, or Lucic. But those guys are the kind of guys who are as close as you get to the "80s" power forward nowadays.

I'm surprised I haven't seem any backlash re:Jokinen. I was certain that was coming, because he doesn't fight.

Here lies the problem with your argument. There are so many players who are more capable of using their bodies effectively than Zetterberg. Does Zetterberg use his body at times? Yes. Does he use it enough to be considered a power forward? No.

I still fail to see how Zetterberg is a willing fighter.

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Here lies the problem with your argument. There are so many players who are more capable of using their bodies effectively than Zetterberg. Does Zetterberg use his body at times? Yes. Does he use it enough to be considered a power forward? No.

I still fail to see how Zetterberg is a willing fighter.

A willing fighter is someone who is willing to fight. Zetterberg, while he hasn't fought much, has fought when challenged. Does that not make him a willing fighter? Not starting a fight if he gets hit doesn't mean he's not a willing fighter. If it did, then there are no willing fighters in the league.

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Z is like any great player he changes his game based on his opposition. If a guy like pronger or chara is on the ice z isn't going to power his way by them, but if it's guys like a lebda or meech he is more likely to power through guys like that. Whereas a player like getzlaf or old school bert would just go through the other player no matter who it is.

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as much as I hate the blackhawks, you can't deny that they've got something cookin over there with their first rounder in 08, Kyle Beach.

06-07, 29 goals, 196 PIM

07-08, 27 goals, 222 PIM

08-09, 54 goals, 165 PIM

09-10, 52 goals, 186 PIM

now, I'd bet anything saying that he wont have that kind of production when he makes the big club, but still.

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as much as I hate the blackhawks, you can't deny that they've got something cookin over there with their first rounder in 08, Kyle Beach.

06-07, 29 goals, 196 PIM

07-08, 27 goals, 222 PIM

08-09, 54 goals, 165 PIM

09-10, 52 goals, 186 PIM

now, I'd bet anything saying that he wont have that kind of production when he makes the big club, but still.

Maltby was a 50 goal scorer in the juniors. :P

Also, Beach only had 24 in 08-09, not 54. 09-10 was his first explosive year.

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A willing fighter is someone who is willing to fight. Zetterberg, while he hasn't fought much, has fought when challenged. Does that not make him a willing fighter? Not starting a fight if he gets hit doesn't mean he's not a willing fighter. If it did, then there are no willing fighters in the league.

When did Zetterberg willingly fight?

Malkin initiated the whole fight, and Hank didn't look like he even knew what was going on. Just like Datsyuk with Niedermayer.

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Guest Stolberg

Some current power forwards:

Jarome Iginla

Chris Stewart

Mike Richards

Ryane Clowe

Steve Downie

Shane Doan

Ryan Kesler (maybe)

David Backes

Wayne Simmonds

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A willing fighter is someone who is willing to fight. Zetterberg, while he hasn't fought much, has fought when challenged. Does that not make him a willing fighter? Not starting a fight if he gets hit doesn't mean he's not a willing fighter. If it did, then there are no willing fighters in the league.

Z has fought once in his NHL career. Do you honestly think that was the only time he has been challenged to fight? A good example of this is Crosby going after him last year (when Howard got involved). Like I said, this doesn't make him any less of a player, but he is not a willing fighter.

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