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Get ready folks, hitting is about to exit our game


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#41 Konnan511

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:35 AM

watch the new vid i posted, no elbow what so ever, shoulder to chest/jaw

My apologizes, you are correct sir. It's not an elbow, but the principle point is the same. He targeted the head, which you are not allowed to do, regardless if it's the shoulder. You can tell Thornton specifically targeted the head and only the head.

If Kronwall and Stuart can drive their shoulders into other player's chests, so can these players.
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#42 Opie

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:37 AM

The only potential call I could see here is targeting the head, other than that, Joe was in front of Perron, elbow was tucked, and the puck went through Perron.

I can see the league telling the refs to be overly aggressive with the blindside hit, but Joe got in front of Perron, because Perron was doing his best Umberger impersonation and not looking around him, does not make this a blindside hit.

It was indeed a shoulder to the head, but was the head the target?

The only difference in my opinion between Kronner's hit on Selanne and this one is that Selanne was looking at Kronner, while Perron was looking at a chick in the second row behind his net.

Head on a swivel my man, it is a vicious game, people get hurt, hurt by falling on the ice, hurt by twisting their knees, hurt by the puck as well are we going to change to a tennis ball because 8 out of 10 dentist say vulcanized rubber is bad for you teeth?

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#43 jollymania

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:47 AM

There is no penalty for "targeting the head" on a north south hit, and it is debatable whether it wasn't just Thornton being tall and Pereon being hunched over.
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#44 Opie

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:51 AM

true Jolly, I had too much NFL on my mind that is their new rule!

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#45 TX Wing

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:55 AM

Secondly, why are hockey players turning into such *******? I mean every hit I see on replay now they all just lay on the ice looking like they got hit by a truck.


This. I just don't remember seeing so many players just immediately going down, and not moving after a hit, as I have this season. Between this and the softening of NFL hits it makes you wonder if professional athletes realize why they get paid what they do. They are the modern day gladiators and we want to see aggressiveness and super-human abilities displayed every game. Yes, sometimes this results in the end of a career, but at least, they are getting paid accordingly for the risky job and there has not been a death in the NHL since Masterton. Don't get me wrong, I do not justify hits where the clear intent is to injure, but that was not the case here. If Perron had played the puck successfully it would have been a clean hit, because he missed, Thornton's shoulder misses its target and hits the head making it look much worse.

#46 mindfly

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:05 AM

Clean hit if you ask me, Perron needs to get his freaking head up... :ranting:

#47 jeff48109

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:25 AM

do you all think on ice officials should be able to look at replay when they are thinking of throwing a player out of the game? i believe they do that in the NBA.

#48 toby91_ca

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:33 AM

There is no penalty for "targeting the head" on a north south hit, and it is debatable whether it wasn't just Thornton being tall and Pereon being hunched over.

That's true, but it wasn't a north south hit, not even close.

FYI, a disciplenary hearing has been scheduled with Mr. Thornton.

#49 hillbillywingsfan

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:45 AM

So other than the fact that Thornton plugs Perron with a blindside elbow to the jaw, and Pietrangelo doesn't toss his bucket, what exactly is in that clip?

Certainly nothing about hitting no longer being in hockey.

it was a blind sided hit but it wasnt' an elbow to the head. you are wrong there.
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#50 esteef

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:01 AM

Isn't "blindside" relative to where the player is looking? Technically Cooke was in front of Savard when he hit him, but Savard had been looking left and just turned around, much like what happened here. Thornton comes from the "blindside" and specifically targeted the head when he had everything thing else available to hit. That's what they're trying to eliminate, unnecessary hits to the head. I don't like it, but he'll be suspended.

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#51 toby91_ca

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:10 AM

Isn't "blindside" relative to where the player is looking? Technically Cooke was in front of Savard when he hit him, but Savard had been looking left and just turned around, much like what happened here. Thornton comes from the "blindside" and specifically targeted the head when he had everything thing else available to hit. That's what they're trying to eliminate, unnecessary hits to the head. I don't like it, but he'll be suspended.

esteef

I agree, there isn't a signficant difference in this his vs. the Cooke hit. There is a difference in that the Cooke hit was more clearly targetting the head and he started from behind, but he was in front of Savard before he turned to make that hit. The Cooke hit was worse, but I wouldn't call the Thornton hit completely different.

Edit - I should clarify that I agree to an extent. Blindside isn't really about where you are looking. Example, if you have your head down and a guy comes north south and hits you straight on, you won't see it, but it's not a blind side. I think blindside assumes that you are looking in the direction you are skating and if you wouldn't see the hit coming, or only see it at the last minute, that's blindside.

In the Thornton case, Perron definately should have saw it if his head was up, but he only would have saw it at the last minute becuase Thornton came from the side = blindside hit.

Everyone also has to remember that blindside hits are not illegal, it's only those that target the head.

Edited by toby91_ca, 05 November 2010 - 11:13 AM.


#52 esteef

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:16 AM

Edit - I should clarify that I agree to an extent. Blindside isn't really about where you are looking. Example, if you have your head down and a guy comes north south and hits you straight on, you won't see it, but it's not a blind side. I think blindside assumes that you are looking in the direction you are skating and if you wouldn't see the hit coming, or only see it at the last minute, that's blindside.

Agree.

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#53 henrik40

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:21 AM

Murph and Bobby Holik were addressing this on NHL on the Fly last night. Holik was pissed because he felt like Perron embellished, which I agree with him on. Perron made it look like the hit was really serious, yet he was out there later scoring a goal. Then after the game, he was vague in his answers but basically admitted he wasn't really that hurt but he wouldn't know til 24 hours had passed. There is going to be a big adjustment period but I'm hoping to see diving penalties called way more often. However, both Murph and Holik agreed that the 5 minute penalty should have been assessed but not a game misconduct.

#54 F.Michael

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:50 AM

This is what I feared the most - the proverbial slippery slope.

IMHO it was a clean hit; what was Thornton supposed to do - let him skate on by with the puck?

Elbow was tucked in, both feet were on the ice, but it was Perron who had his head down watching the puck...Once again boys, and girls it was a clean hit...It's hockey afterall.

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#55 esteef

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:52 AM

...what was Thornton supposed to do - let him skate on by with the puck?

Not target the head.

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#56 toby91_ca

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:54 AM

However, both Murph and Holik agreed that the 5 minute penalty should have been assessed but not a game misconduct.

If that is the case, I think both Murph and Holik need to educate themselves on the rule:

Rule 48 Illegal Check to the Head
48.1 Illegal Check to the Head A lateral or blind side hit to an opponent
where the head is targeted and/or the principle point of contact is not
permitted.
48.2 Minor Penalty There is no provision for a minor penalty for this rule.
48.3 Major Penalty For a violation of this rule, a major penalty shall be
assessed (see 48.4).
48.4 Game Misconduct Penalty An automatic game misconduct penalty
shall be assessed whenever a major penalty is assessed under this
rule.



#57 jollymania

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:55 AM

That's true, but it wasn't a north south hit, not even close.

FYI, a disciplenary hearing has been scheduled with Mr. Thornton.

whether it was purely north south or slightly diagonal is debatable, but what isn't is that if perron was simply looking forward with his head up Thornton would have been visible, thus you can't possibly penalize this hit

If that is the case, I think both Murph and Holik need to educate themselves on the rule:

the rule is horribly flawed
"I assure you the hits along the boards he(Aaron Downey) constantly threw SEVERAL TIMES EVERY SHIFT were far more damaging hits that what Kronwall throws."
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#58 Carman

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:55 AM

Awesome, you aren't allowed to hit anymore.

Great job NHL, soccer on skates here we come.

#59 F.Michael

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:58 AM

The only potential call I could see here is targeting the head, other than that, Joe was in front of Perron, elbow was tucked, and the puck went through Perron.



It was indeed a shoulder to the head, but was the head the target?




What should taller players whom are 6'3" plus in height do?

Scrouch down so they're equal in height to smaller opponents :hehe:

Seriously - this is just 1 of those situations where height can have it's advantages, or disadvantages.

IMHO Thornton didn't go after Perron's head; Perron, and many other players around the league have gotta keep their heads up.

Not target the head.

esteef

So what's a taller player like Thornton supposed to do - bend down, and go for Perron's knees?

Seriously guys.

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#60 jollymania

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:59 AM

Not target the head.

esteef

he didn't, 70% of this hit was body to body, only thornton's shoulder hit perron's head, lets not forget the arm to arm, hip to hip , thigh to thigh, and possibly even knee to knee (incidental.) contact. thornton hit perron in the head partially because 1. he is much taller 2. perron was hunched over
"I assure you the hits along the boards he(Aaron Downey) constantly threw SEVERAL TIMES EVERY SHIFT were far more damaging hits that what Kronwall throws."
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