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jollymania

Get ready folks, hitting is about to exit our game

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Another inatallation of "hitting is mean and yucky" brought to you by Gary Bettman and all the other assholes that are ru(i)nning the league.

I think we should have two forward lines composed of nothing but enforcers. Would that make you happy?

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I think we should have two forward lines composed of nothing but enforcers. Would that make you happy?

its not about having goons, its about honest hockey, this hit is an honest hockey hit

F.Michael likes this

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Are we really going to have one of these threads for every penalized hit this season?

Just to save time, here's the Reader's Digest quotable quotes:

"End of hockey as we know it"

"Blindside headshot, what's the problem?"

"Clean hit, should have kept his head up"

"Clear elbow, 2 games"

"Soandso is dirty"

"Players today have no respect"

"Get rid of the instigator rule, problem solved"

There, that pretty much sums up the 200 threads we'll have on this subject throughout the season.

It's a new rule, there's going to be a period of adjustment for the refs, the players, and the fans. Deal with it.

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I feel bad for Perron because he doesn't see it coming but Jesus Christ he has the puck come to him and he's moving forward. Of course it's a ******* blind side hit because PERRON IS ******* LOOKING BACKWARDS AT THE PASSER while moving forward. This is an utterly stupid call, Thornton's elbows are not his shoulders, which is what actually makes contact, he follows through with his elbow coming upward after the hit (last time I checked following through with your elbow moving upward doesn't constitute an elbow when the elbow doesn't even make contact -- the elbow moving up is merely an affect of balancing one's self from the jolt of hitting someone with your shoulder), and yes, this is marginalizing clean hits just because a guy gets hurt. Unbelievable.

Edit: I also have a feeling of deja vu because I remember off the top of my head Jiri Hudler being hit many times looking the wrong way.

Edited by Shoreline

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Tough call. He definitely hit the head with his elbow on the follow through. Because Perron was looking backwards, Thornton hit him from the side, and it was absolutely blind-sided.

The other thing I see is that Thornton is a HUGE guy. It looks more like an elbow because he's so big.

Not sure what I'd say. I'd say, at the speed of the game, it definitely looks like a head shot, and since Big Joe is known for being a dirty player when he's losing, I can see why it was a penalty. I'm not sure if it's suspension worthy or not though.

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I feel bad for Perron because he doesn't see it coming but Jesus Christ he has the puck come to him and he's moving forward. Of course it's a ******* blind side hit because PERRON IS ******* LOOKING BACKWARDS AT THE PASSER while moving forward. This is an utterly stupid call, Thornton's elbows are not his shoulders, which is what actually makes contact, he follows through with his elbow coming upward after the hit (last time I checked following through with your elbow moving upward doesn't constitute an elbow when the elbow doesn't even make contact -- the elbow moving up is merely an affect of balancing one's self from the jolt of hitting someone with your shoulder), and yes, this is marginalizing clean hits just because a guy gets hurt. Unbelievable.

Edit: I also have a feeling of deja vu because I remember off the top of my head Jiri Hudler being hit many times looking the wrong way.

I don't think it's a stupid call. A shoulder pad to the head is a play that is meant to hurt a player and it needs to stop. I will :clap: if he gets suspended as he should be. And I would feel the same if it was one of our players doing the hit.

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I feel bad for Perron because he doesn't see it coming but Jesus Christ he has the puck come to him and he's moving forward. Of course it's a ******* blind side hit because PERRON IS ******* LOOKING BACKWARDS AT THE PASSER while moving forward. This is an utterly stupid call, ...

That just highlights why they shouldn't have included the 'blindside' caveat in the rule. The rule says "Lateral, back-pressure, or blindside..." without any real clear definition of what that means. Most fans seem to think blindside is just a synonym for lateral, but I don't think that's what the NHL means. (I'm not sure that the NHL even knows for sure what they mean.)

Most of the time someone skating in open ice is going to be hunched over to some degree, so hitting them in the head is almost impossible without getting in front of them first. Every one of these calls is going to be somewhat controversial just because of that.

It should have just been a penalty for initial/principal contact to the head, regardless of direction. Still somewhat subjective, but less so than it is now without the added subjectivity of whether it's blindside or not. These are professional hockey players, some of the best and most agile skaters in the world. They could avoid headshots 9 times out of 10 if they really wanted to. Seems a lot of players are just more concerned with inflicting maximum damage.

[edit] Also, it doesn't need to be an elbow to be a headshot. No idea where people got that idea.

Edited by Buppy

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I don't think it's an elbow, but I also don't think that matters. I was clearly a headshot and it was clearly an east to west hit. Not sure how people are seeing it as North/South.

I think the rule is going to cause wrong calls being made by officials, but let's be honest, we've have super slow mo video here and we're still arguing about it. All the officials have is real time, full speed and not necessarily the best angle.

But when it comes down to it, maybe it just causes bad calls, some growing pains, but I doubt it will take hitting out of the game....unless you start seeing guys get suspended when they really shouldn't.

In this case, I think he should be suspended. This isn't a matter of being tough, we're talking about guys heads here. And it's not a matter of potentially ending someone's career, it's much worse than that, the players quality of life is on the line.

If the player has his head down (yes, Perron did), that's his own fault, but in this case, Thornton also came from the side, which is the no no now, which I agree with.

Frozen-Man likes this

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When I watched the Game live, I thought Thornton left his feet to make the hit, but after Jolly has posted these angle shots, I see that Big Joe simply was trying to get out of the way! Perron had his head down and never saw it coming! I guess the hits to the head are gonna be like the high sticking, eventhough you didn't mean to hit the head you still will receive the penalty for it!

I'm curious to see if Perron was embellishing the hit like Downie's hit in the LA game? Thats what I mean by guys tumbling to the ice and rolling around like they were hit by the zamboni! I think if a player embellishes the hit, they should receive an unsportsmen call!

Right after the Thornton hit Perron, David Backes was hit by Dany Heatly next to the boards. Heatly let up on the play as he was coming into contact with Backes, but Backes dove into the boards and of course fell to the ice like a sack of potatoes! Heats then was assessed a 2 minute boarding penalty! This is exactly what I'm concerned about is these guys embellishing these hits because they know the refs are looking for them, so they fake injury!

I wish the NHL would notice the guys faking injury are the ones ruining the game, not hits like Thornton, Doughty, and Heats!

Hockeymom1960 likes this

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Just because he managed to get in front doesn't mean he didn't come from the blind side. This is an east west hit from the blindside and just coming out of the penalty box to boot, Perron had no way of seeing him coming. this just echoes the Richards hit on David Booth from last year... sure he hit the front side, but the recipient had no way to see him coming from the BLIND SIDE. Richards on Booth, same basic premise... hits him in the front but comes from the side.

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First of all, I can see why the NHL called a penalty on Thornton. He hit Perron in the head. However, it was not east-west or a blind side hit. Perron should have had his head up, but Thornton (along with every other player in the league) needs to get better at targeting the shoulder and not the head.

Secondly, why are hockey players turning into such *******? I mean every hit I see on replay now they all just lay on the ice looking like they got hit by a truck.

hokeychik22 likes this

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First of all, I can see why the NHL called a penalty on Thornton. He hit Perron in the head. However, it was not east-west or a blind side hit. Perron should have had his head up, but Thornton (along with every other player in the league) needs to get better at targeting the shoulder and not the head.

Secondly, why are hockey players turning into such *******? I mean every hit I see on replay now they all just lay on the ice looking like they got hit by a truck.

Konroyd made it look pretty easy to get up after a hit twice as hard and malicious as this one

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Konroyd made it look pretty easy to get up after a hit twice as hard and malicious as this one

Yep!!! The good ole days!! The only thing I didn't like about the hit was that Keane left his feet! But other than that, its awesome!! I miss those days!!

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watch the new vid i posted, no elbow what so ever, shoulder to chest/jaw

My apologizes, you are correct sir. It's not an elbow, but the principle point is the same. He targeted the head, which you are not allowed to do, regardless if it's the shoulder. You can tell Thornton specifically targeted the head and only the head.

If Kronwall and Stuart can drive their shoulders into other player's chests, so can these players.

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The only potential call I could see here is targeting the head, other than that, Joe was in front of Perron, elbow was tucked, and the puck went through Perron.

I can see the league telling the refs to be overly aggressive with the blindside hit, but Joe got in front of Perron, because Perron was doing his best Umberger impersonation and not looking around him, does not make this a blindside hit.

It was indeed a shoulder to the head, but was the head the target?

The only difference in my opinion between Kronner's hit on Selanne and this one is that Selanne was looking at Kronner, while Perron was looking at a chick in the second row behind his net.

Head on a swivel my man, it is a vicious game, people get hurt, hurt by falling on the ice, hurt by twisting their knees, hurt by the puck as well are we going to change to a tennis ball because 8 out of 10 dentist say vulcanized rubber is bad for you teeth?

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There is no penalty for "targeting the head" on a north south hit, and it is debatable whether it wasn't just Thornton being tall and Pereon being hunched over.

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Secondly, why are hockey players turning into such *******? I mean every hit I see on replay now they all just lay on the ice looking like they got hit by a truck.

This. I just don't remember seeing so many players just immediately going down, and not moving after a hit, as I have this season. Between this and the softening of NFL hits it makes you wonder if professional athletes realize why they get paid what they do. They are the modern day gladiators and we want to see aggressiveness and super-human abilities displayed every game. Yes, sometimes this results in the end of a career, but at least, they are getting paid accordingly for the risky job and there has not been a death in the NHL since Masterton. Don't get me wrong, I do not justify hits where the clear intent is to injure, but that was not the case here. If Perron had played the puck successfully it would have been a clean hit, because he missed, Thornton's shoulder misses its target and hits the head making it look much worse.

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do you all think on ice officials should be able to look at replay when they are thinking of throwing a player out of the game? i believe they do that in the NBA.

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There is no penalty for "targeting the head" on a north south hit, and it is debatable whether it wasn't just Thornton being tall and Pereon being hunched over.

That's true, but it wasn't a north south hit, not even close.

FYI, a disciplenary hearing has been scheduled with Mr. Thornton.

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So other than the fact that Thornton plugs Perron with a blindside elbow to the jaw, and Pietrangelo doesn't toss his bucket, what exactly is in that clip?

Certainly nothing about hitting no longer being in hockey.

it was a blind sided hit but it wasnt' an elbow to the head. you are wrong there.

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Isn't "blindside" relative to where the player is looking? Technically Cooke was in front of Savard when he hit him, but Savard had been looking left and just turned around, much like what happened here. Thornton comes from the "blindside" and specifically targeted the head when he had everything thing else available to hit. That's what they're trying to eliminate, unnecessary hits to the head. I don't like it, but he'll be suspended.

esteef

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