99 replies to this topic

[10 Minute Misconduct]

Howard has been badly outplayed by Osgood for a month and a half. This what you don't understand.

Howard automatically gets the next start after a bad game to 'sort it out' if you will. The problem is that he has been having a ton of bad games. Osgood, on the other hand, has been playing great and after each great game he gets exiled to the end of the bench for another week or two.

Howard has done nothing to earn his starts this season; Osgood has done plenty. Osgood should be starting half or more of the games from here on out until Howard proves otherwise.

Osgood has played 3 games if that in the last month in a half. The two really arnt comparable. I will agree in the limited action Osgood has had, he has looked good.

[Heaten]

I know, it's like he treats a starter different than a back up.

Howard should have lost his "starter position" a while back. That's the problem I have with Babcock. Osgood has earned the starter position imho. Start the better goalie and win. Pretty simple, really.

[dragonballgtz]

Osgood over that span:

2-1-1, 2.71 gaa, .917 sv%

And he still lets in weak goals. For having a better save percentage his GAA is just as bad because he lets in bad goals along with s***ty team defensive play.

But what the coach should really worry about is the teams past month of half assed hockey.

Edited by dragonballgtz, 03 January 2011 - 11:38 PM.

[Booster313]

Wow people crack me up... Babcock haters, it's really easy to look back and say he shoulda, woulda, coulda. Hindsight is 20/20. The way you people talk it's like we don't have the most successful sports team over the last 15 years, let alone hockey team. You make it sound like had Babcock only listened to you we'd have 3 more cups. Get over yourselves. When are you going to sit back and realize that although not without mistake, these guys know what they are doing and they are right far more often than they are wrong. It you could do it better you'd be coaching. It's one thing to disagree but your personally attacking Babcock.

[eva unit zero]

And he still lets in weak goals. For having a better save percentage his GAA is just as bad because he lets in bad goals along with s***ty team defensive play.

But what the coach should really worry about is the teams past month of half assed hockey.

Regardless of whether you think Osgood lets in weak goals or not, the stats don't lie. Osgood is superior to Howard in every way over the past month. If one goalie has a tendency to let in weak goals, but only averages 2 total goals against and wins more than he loses, that's better than a goalie who doesn't let in weak goals but who averages 3 goals against with a losing record.

Hate who you want, but at least recognize statistical fact.

[Outsider]

Osgood over that span:

2-1-1, 2.71 gaa, .917 sv%

For those of you still stating "Howard is the Starter, he's "earned" the Starting position", and that we have to "stick with him" as he works his way through this slump?

Yeah...

More fun with numbers: In the 12 Games Ozzie played before he "lost" the starting job due to is "poor play", (when he went down with the flu/groin strain):

6-3-2 (1 no decision, as he was pulled 7 minutes into the Vancouver Game, after allowing 2 goals on 4 shots, Howard mopped up as the Wings won 5-4)
2.77 gaa, .902 sv%

Howard's stats in that same period:

1-2-1 (1 no decision, as he came in in relief in Buffalo, and Osgood took the L)
3.44 gaa, .879 sv%


Rather eye opening, I think.

So, if Osgood LOST the Starting job based on a 6-3-2 record, with a 2.77 gaa and .902 sv% over a twelve game span....

Then how is it that Howard hasn't LOST the Starting job based on his 5-5-1 record, with a 3.26 gaa and .887 sv% over an eleven game span?

Riddle me THAT, "Howard is the Starter" people.

[Outsider]

And he still lets in weak goals. For having a better save percentage his GAA is just as bad because he lets in bad goals along with s***ty team defensive play.

But what the coach should really worry about is the teams past month of half assed hockey.

Osgood has let in one "weak" goal. That's it. If you want to count them up, Howard has let in far more questionable goals than Osgood lately. He's also been making a habit of letting them in in the opening minute of the period, in the closing minute of the period, and/or shortly after the Wings score.

[dragonballgtz]

Regardless of whether you think Osgood lets in weak goals or not, the stats don't lie. Osgood is superior to Howard in every way over the past month. If one goalie has a tendency to let in weak goals, but only averages 2 total goals against and wins more than he loses, that's better than a goalie who doesn't let in weak goals but who averages 3 goals against with a losing record.

Hate who you want, but at least recognize statistical fact.

Weak goals cost him is 400th in Detroit, along in STL and almost cost him in COL. I didn't say I hated Osgood I'm just stating the truth.

Again the bigger issue is team defense and lack of effort in play. With better defense both goalies would be doing better.

[Outsider]

Weak goals cost him is 400th in Detroit, along in STL and almost cost him in COL. I didn't say I hated Osgood I'm just stating the truth.

Again the bigger issue is team defense and lack of effort in play. With better defense both goalies would be doing better.

Ever wonder why such a good Team plays so poorly, at times.

They just look "disinterested", don't they? Like they can't be bothered to show up?

Almost like they're....

....tuned out.

[dragonballgtz]

Ever wonder why such a good Team plays so poorly, at times.

They just look "disinterested", don't they? Like they can't be bothered to show up?

Almost like they're....

....tuned out.

Yeah do do wonder why Detroit cannot play a full 60 minute game.

[Outsider]

Yeah do do wonder why Detroit cannot play a full 60 minute game.

They
Are
Tuned
Out

They're veterans, not raw rookies who can be intimidated, or "shamed", into performing. And they don't respond well to head games.

[VM1138]

And he still lets in weak goals. For having a better save percentage his GAA is just as bad because he lets in bad goals along with s***ty team defensive play.

But what the coach should really worry about is the teams past month of half assed hockey.

They are playing well enough to win. Almost every loss could be chalked up to 2 or 3 bad goals given up by Howard. Ozzie lets in soft ones, yeah, all goalies do, but not 2 or 3 a game consistently.

Also, Ozzie makes the HUGE saves that Howard hasn't been lately, that give the team energy and make up for soft goals.

Ozzie and Howard have similar numbers, but Ozzie's may actually be better than Howard's as of late. His bad starts early in the season are skewing his totals because of the few number of games he's actually started. Howard, on the other hand, was great in the beginning but terrible lately, so his overall numbers aren't as bad as they have been lately.

I say give Howard this last chance, but if the team allows 4 goals in under 30 shots, no matter what the reason, Ozzie needs to get the nod for at least two consecutive starts.

[Rivalred]

LOL @ the mass of Barker Lounger General Managers/Coaches at times

[Howard He Do It?!]

Osgood gives up one bad goal in his next start and everyone will turn on him again and be begging for Howard. It's all cyclical on LGW regarding the goaltenders.

[Outsider]

LOL @ the mass of Barker Lounger General Managers/Coaches at times

LOL @ those who fail to see patterns emerging.

Like the fact that with each passing year, and the loss of more and more "Scotty Bowman/Steve Yzerman Wings", the Wings, (as a Team), get a little bit more scrambly.

Everyone here thinks Babcock is such a brilliant Head Coach. Come on. Dave freakin' Lewis coached this Team to the President's Trophy.

Fact is, when Babcock took over, HALF of the roster was filled with Player Coaches, (similar to Reg Dunlop in Slap Shot). Basically all Babcock had to do was show up, run practices, and fill out the line-up card. This Team knows how to Play. And how to Win.

As more and more of them leave, the Wings are losing more than just "aging Players".

They're losing a fantastic hockey mind, one who sees the game on the ice like a chess board, (Yzerman). They're losing a PP Coach, one who understands, from first hand experience, how to combine skill with grit, and to implement both to devastating effect, (Shanny). They're losing one of the best Defensive Coaches in the Game, one who has seen everything, in a 20+ year career, and knows how to respond in any given situation, (Cheli). They're losing an excellent strength and conditioning Coach, one who can mentor younger Players on what it takes to compete hard, every night, even with a limited skill-set, (Maltby).

As more and more of them leave, and the rest are disrespected by their own coach as "past their prime", their contributions held at little value in a "what have you done for me lately" philosophy.....

Perhaps some of the vets have been alienated. (No "perhaps" about it.....I've heard from multiple sources that THAT is a fact!).

And as more and more of them leave, and the ones who are left are NO LONGER treated with the respect they used to enjoy in Detroit, where they were considered valuable, battled seasoned warriors, rather than "washed up has-beens".....

Perhaps less and less of that "Red Wings Way" is being passed down to the next generation of Wings.

It's funny how people see Yzerman as "ready for retirement". How Shanny was "past his prime". How Cheli was "done". And how Maltby was "waaaaay done.".....

To the younger Players they were role models, guys who had BEEN there, done that, and had the Rings, and the scars, to show for it. And even if these guys were too old to be as effective as they used to be, they still had the knowledge to pass on from FIRST HAND experience.

Rather than someone who's gonna rail on you repeatedly about how to do a job HE was never "good enough" to do at the NHL level.

And while you can make an argument that the aforementioned Players HAD TO go, (and they did, it was their time.....), they didn't have to be treated the way they were BEFORE they left.

And don't think the guys who are left in the Room don't know it. Vet and rook alike. (Ask around......)

Edited by Outsider, 04 January 2011 - 01:22 AM.

[Rivalred]

LOL @ those who fail to see patterns emerging.

Like the fact that with each passing year, and the loss of more and more "Scotty Bowman/Steve Yzerman Wings", the Wings, (as a Team), get a little bit more scrambly.

Everyone here thinks Babcock is such a brilliant Head Coach. Come on. Dave freakin' Lewis coached this Team to the President's Trophy.

Fact is, when Babcock took over, HALF of the roster was filled with Player Coaches, (similar to Reg Dunlop in Slap Shot). Basically all Babcock had to do was show up, run practices, and fill out the line-up card. This Team knows how to Play. And how to Win.

As more and more of them leave, the Wings are losing more than just "aging Players".

They're losing a fantastic hockey mind, one who sees the game on the ice like a chess board, (Yzerman). They're losing a PP Coach, one who understands, from first hand experience, how to combine skill with grit, and to implement both to devastating effect, (Shanny). They're losing one of the best Defensive Coaches in the Game, one who has seen everything, in a 20+ year career, and knows how to respond in any given situation, (Cheli). They're losing an excellent strength and conditioning Coach, one who can mentor younger Players on what it takes to compete hard, every night, even with a limited skill-set, (Maltby).

As more and more of them leave, and the rest are disrespected by their own coach as "past their prime", their contributions held at little value in a "what have you done for me lately" philosophy.....

Perhaps some of the vets have been alienated. (No "perhaps" about it.....I've heard from multiple sources that THAT is a fact!).

And as more and more of them leave, and the ones who are left are NO LONGER treated with the respect they used to enjoy in Detroit, where they were considered valuable, battled seasoned warriors, rather than "washed up has-beens".....

Perhaps less and less of that "Red Wings Way" is being passed down to the next generation of Wings.

It's funny how people see Yzerman as "ready for retirement". How Shanny was "past his prime". How Cheli was "done". And how Maltby was "waaaaay done.".....

To the younger Players they were role models, guys who had BEEN there, done that, and had the Rings, and the scars, to show for it. And even if these guys were too old to be as effective as they used to be, they still had the knowledge to pass on from FIRST HAND experience.

Rather than someone who's gonna rail on you repeatedly about how to do a job HE was never "good enough" to do at the NHL level.

And while you can make an argument that the aforementioned Players HAD TO go, (and they did, it was their time.....), they didn't have to be treated the way they were BEFORE they left.

And don't think the guys who are left in the Room don't know it. Vet and rook alike. (Ask around......)

Shanny/Malts were not done in my eyes, same goes for Ozzie

Babs is a good coach and does get results, most of the time. The rash of injuries and line juggling has not helped anything. Z is not playing 100% and we all know that.

Rafalski has been below average of late

Losing face-offs has killed this team

I still want McCrummy gone

Edited by Rivalred, 04 January 2011 - 02:05 AM.

[Drake_Marcus]

Why bother putting Stewart on the top pairing? His numbers are better when he plays 2nd pairing time. Last season when he was forced to take on a heavier workload his play suffered. So why not keep him on the 2nd pairing where he was solid as a rock? Stewie's shown he can play either side so that shouldn't be a problem.

I'd rather see Ericsson or Kronwall paired with Lidstrom so they can soak as much up as possible. Stewart seems to play his best hockey when he's asked to play 2nd pairing minutes. He just hasn't looked all that great with Lidstrom.

As far as the overall defensive play of the team goes... well that's what happens when you lose your best defensive forward.

The way the Wings have played lately just shows how badly they need Datsyuk back.

[Drake_Marcus]

They're losing a fantastic hockey mind, one who sees the game on the ice like a chess board, (Yzerman). They're losing a PP Coach, one who understands, from first hand experience, how to combine skill with grit, and to implement both to devastating effect, (Shanny). They're losing one of the best Defensive Coaches in the Game, one who has seen everything, in a 20+ year career, and knows how to respond in any given situation, (Cheli). They're losing an excellent strength and conditioning Coach, one who can mentor younger Players on what it takes to compete hard, every night, even with a limited skill-set, (Maltby).

I've crossed off the players who were retained by the Red Wings specifically for the services they provide that you say the team is losing.

It's hard to argue for your Shanny point given the team's success since his departure. Yzerman's effect as a manager still being determined at this point. He's looked good so far in Tampa but they haven't won s*** (and a short stint with Team Canada the includes all of this Wings managerial buddies doesn't count as NHL success). People will ultimately judge his effectiveness as a GM by what happens in Tampa Bay. I wish him all the best in his managerial career except for when that success would hurt the Detroit Red Wings. In the end the logo on the front of the jersey matters more than the name on the back.

[Drake_Marcus]

Howard has been badly outplayed by Osgood for a month and a half. This what you don't understand.

Howard automatically gets the next start after a bad game to 'sort it out' if you will. The problem is that he has been having a ton of bad games. Osgood, on the other hand, has been playing great and after each great game he gets exiled to the end of the bench for another week or two.

Howard has done nothing to earn his starts this season; Osgood has done plenty. Osgood should be starting half or more of the games from here on out until Howard proves otherwise.

Like it or not-- Howard is the future of the Wings in net right now. Ozzy is the past. And the difference between Howard's bad starts and Ozzy's good starts hasn't been large enough to justify switching the starter positions. That's why Howard gets the extra start. But because we're both math guys let's look at the stats:

Howard:
30gp 30gs 20W-7L-3OTL 2.70GAA 0.908 Sv% 2SO

Osgood:
10gp 9gs 4W-3L-2OTL 2.74GAA 0.905 Sv% 0SO

I've watched the games too man, I know Ozzy's had a few good ones. But to characterise this situation as being a clear cut case of favourtism ignores the statistical evidence that says Howard wins 67% of his games and Osgood wins 44% of his games (all with nearly identical GAA and Sv%).

[Andy Pred 48]

one interesting side topic on this is if Eaves is going to play, who does Babs sit or send back to GR? Mursak got the call first but when looking at the ice time Babs has dished out, one thinks he likes Tatar's overall play compared to Jan's. Mursak has ave just over 8mins per game whilst Tatar has over 11 mins.
The D situ, maybe Stuy should sit a couple of games and heal up give Kindl some more ice time. I know he's the 7th D at present but unless he gets a little more playing time i feel we could stiffle his progress.That said, I think that he'll be trade bait come the deadline as Smith is going to be in the lineup next season. A year in GR is all he needs, too much talent wasted in the A, same as i feel that Tatar will be up next year too this kid just ouzes class and he reads the game better than a lot of his peers.