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nate94gt

Howard, Stuart, Eaves possible Tuesday against the Oil

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Yeah do do wonder why Detroit cannot play a full 60 minute game.

They

Are

Tuned

Out

They're veterans, not raw rookies who can be intimidated, or "shamed", into performing. And they don't respond well to head games.

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And he still lets in weak goals. For having a better save percentage his GAA is just as bad because he lets in bad goals along with s***ty team defensive play.

But what the coach should really worry about is the teams past month of half assed hockey.

They are playing well enough to win. Almost every loss could be chalked up to 2 or 3 bad goals given up by Howard. Ozzie lets in soft ones, yeah, all goalies do, but not 2 or 3 a game consistently.

Also, Ozzie makes the HUGE saves that Howard hasn't been lately, that give the team energy and make up for soft goals.

Ozzie and Howard have similar numbers, but Ozzie's may actually be better than Howard's as of late. His bad starts early in the season are skewing his totals because of the few number of games he's actually started. Howard, on the other hand, was great in the beginning but terrible lately, so his overall numbers aren't as bad as they have been lately.

I say give Howard this last chance, but if the team allows 4 goals in under 30 shots, no matter what the reason, Ozzie needs to get the nod for at least two consecutive starts.

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Osgood gives up one bad goal in his next start and everyone will turn on him again and be begging for Howard. It's all cyclical on LGW regarding the goaltenders.

mjlegend and commadore183 like this

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LOL @ the mass of Barker Lounger General Managers/Coaches at times

LOL @ those who fail to see patterns emerging.

Like the fact that with each passing year, and the loss of more and more "Scotty Bowman/Steve Yzerman Wings", the Wings, (as a Team), get a little bit more scrambly.

Everyone here thinks Babcock is such a brilliant Head Coach. Come on. Dave freakin' Lewis coached this Team to the President's Trophy.

Fact is, when Babcock took over, HALF of the roster was filled with Player Coaches, (similar to Reg Dunlop in Slap Shot). Basically all Babcock had to do was show up, run practices, and fill out the line-up card. This Team knows how to Play. And how to Win.

As more and more of them leave, the Wings are losing more than just "aging Players".

They're losing a fantastic hockey mind, one who sees the game on the ice like a chess board, (Yzerman). They're losing a PP Coach, one who understands, from first hand experience, how to combine skill with grit, and to implement both to devastating effect, (Shanny). They're losing one of the best Defensive Coaches in the Game, one who has seen everything, in a 20+ year career, and knows how to respond in any given situation, (Cheli). They're losing an excellent strength and conditioning Coach, one who can mentor younger Players on what it takes to compete hard, every night, even with a limited skill-set, (Maltby).

As more and more of them leave, and the rest are disrespected by their own coach as "past their prime", their contributions held at little value in a "what have you done for me lately" philosophy.....

Perhaps some of the vets have been alienated. (No "perhaps" about it.....I've heard from multiple sources that THAT is a fact!).

And as more and more of them leave, and the ones who are left are NO LONGER treated with the respect they used to enjoy in Detroit, where they were considered valuable, battled seasoned warriors, rather than "washed up has-beens".....

Perhaps less and less of that "Red Wings Way" is being passed down to the next generation of Wings.

It's funny how people see Yzerman as "ready for retirement". How Shanny was "past his prime". How Cheli was "done". And how Maltby was "waaaaay done.".....

To the younger Players they were role models, guys who had BEEN there, done that, and had the Rings, and the scars, to show for it. And even if these guys were too old to be as effective as they used to be, they still had the knowledge to pass on from FIRST HAND experience.

Rather than someone who's gonna rail on you repeatedly about how to do a job HE was never "good enough" to do at the NHL level.

And while you can make an argument that the aforementioned Players HAD TO go, (and they did, it was their time.....), they didn't have to be treated the way they were BEFORE they left.

And don't think the guys who are left in the Room don't know it. Vet and rook alike. (Ask around......)

Edited by Outsider
GoWings1905, Zeowingsfan and Xitium like this

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LOL @ those who fail to see patterns emerging.

Like the fact that with each passing year, and the loss of more and more "Scotty Bowman/Steve Yzerman Wings", the Wings, (as a Team), get a little bit more scrambly.

Everyone here thinks Babcock is such a brilliant Head Coach. Come on. Dave freakin' Lewis coached this Team to the President's Trophy.

Fact is, when Babcock took over, HALF of the roster was filled with Player Coaches, (similar to Reg Dunlop in Slap Shot). Basically all Babcock had to do was show up, run practices, and fill out the line-up card. This Team knows how to Play. And how to Win.

As more and more of them leave, the Wings are losing more than just "aging Players".

They're losing a fantastic hockey mind, one who sees the game on the ice like a chess board, (Yzerman). They're losing a PP Coach, one who understands, from first hand experience, how to combine skill with grit, and to implement both to devastating effect, (Shanny). They're losing one of the best Defensive Coaches in the Game, one who has seen everything, in a 20+ year career, and knows how to respond in any given situation, (Cheli). They're losing an excellent strength and conditioning Coach, one who can mentor younger Players on what it takes to compete hard, every night, even with a limited skill-set, (Maltby).

As more and more of them leave, and the rest are disrespected by their own coach as "past their prime", their contributions held at little value in a "what have you done for me lately" philosophy.....

Perhaps some of the vets have been alienated. (No "perhaps" about it.....I've heard from multiple sources that THAT is a fact!).

And as more and more of them leave, and the ones who are left are NO LONGER treated with the respect they used to enjoy in Detroit, where they were considered valuable, battled seasoned warriors, rather than "washed up has-beens".....

Perhaps less and less of that "Red Wings Way" is being passed down to the next generation of Wings.

It's funny how people see Yzerman as "ready for retirement". How Shanny was "past his prime". How Cheli was "done". And how Maltby was "waaaaay done.".....

To the younger Players they were role models, guys who had BEEN there, done that, and had the Rings, and the scars, to show for it. And even if these guys were too old to be as effective as they used to be, they still had the knowledge to pass on from FIRST HAND experience.

Rather than someone who's gonna rail on you repeatedly about how to do a job HE was never "good enough" to do at the NHL level.

And while you can make an argument that the aforementioned Players HAD TO go, (and they did, it was their time.....), they didn't have to be treated the way they were BEFORE they left.

And don't think the guys who are left in the Room don't know it. Vet and rook alike. (Ask around......)

Shanny/Malts were not done in my eyes, same goes for Ozzie

Babs is a good coach and does get results, most of the time. The rash of injuries and line juggling has not helped anything. Z is not playing 100% and we all know that.

Rafalski has been below average of late

Losing face-offs has killed this team

I still want McCrummy gone

Edited by Rivalred

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Why bother putting Stewart on the top pairing? His numbers are better when he plays 2nd pairing time. Last season when he was forced to take on a heavier workload his play suffered. So why not keep him on the 2nd pairing where he was solid as a rock? Stewie's shown he can play either side so that shouldn't be a problem.

I'd rather see Ericsson or Kronwall paired with Lidstrom so they can soak as much up as possible. Stewart seems to play his best hockey when he's asked to play 2nd pairing minutes. He just hasn't looked all that great with Lidstrom.

As far as the overall defensive play of the team goes... well that's what happens when you lose your best defensive forward.

The way the Wings have played lately just shows how badly they need Datsyuk back.

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They're losing a fantastic hockey mind, one who sees the game on the ice like a chess board, (Yzerman). They're losing a PP Coach, one who understands, from first hand experience, how to combine skill with grit, and to implement both to devastating effect, (Shanny). They're losing one of the best Defensive Coaches in the Game, one who has seen everything, in a 20+ year career, and knows how to respond in any given situation, (Cheli). They're losing an excellent strength and conditioning Coach, one who can mentor younger Players on what it takes to compete hard, every night, even with a limited skill-set, (Maltby).

I've crossed off the players who were retained by the Red Wings specifically for the services they provide that you say the team is losing.

It's hard to argue for your Shanny point given the team's success since his departure. Yzerman's effect as a manager still being determined at this point. He's looked good so far in Tampa but they haven't won s*** (and a short stint with Team Canada the includes all of this Wings managerial buddies doesn't count as NHL success). People will ultimately judge his effectiveness as a GM by what happens in Tampa Bay. I wish him all the best in his managerial career except for when that success would hurt the Detroit Red Wings. In the end the logo on the front of the jersey matters more than the name on the back.

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Howard has been badly outplayed by Osgood for a month and a half. This what you don't understand.

Howard automatically gets the next start after a bad game to 'sort it out' if you will. The problem is that he has been having a ton of bad games. Osgood, on the other hand, has been playing great and after each great game he gets exiled to the end of the bench for another week or two.

Howard has done nothing to earn his starts this season; Osgood has done plenty. Osgood should be starting half or more of the games from here on out until Howard proves otherwise.

Like it or not-- Howard is the future of the Wings in net right now. Ozzy is the past. And the difference between Howard's bad starts and Ozzy's good starts hasn't been large enough to justify switching the starter positions. That's why Howard gets the extra start. But because we're both math guys let's look at the stats:

Howard:

30gp 30gs 20W-7L-3OTL 2.70GAA 0.908 Sv% 2SO

Osgood:

10gp 9gs 4W-3L-2OTL 2.74GAA 0.905 Sv% 0SO

I've watched the games too man, I know Ozzy's had a few good ones. But to characterise this situation as being a clear cut case of favourtism ignores the statistical evidence that says Howard wins 67% of his games and Osgood wins 44% of his games (all with nearly identical GAA and Sv%).

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one interesting side topic on this is if Eaves is going to play, who does Babs sit or send back to GR? Mursak got the call first but when looking at the ice time Babs has dished out, one thinks he likes Tatar's overall play compared to Jan's. Mursak has ave just over 8mins per game whilst Tatar has over 11 mins.

The D situ, maybe Stuy should sit a couple of games and heal up give Kindl some more ice time. I know he's the 7th D at present but unless he gets a little more playing time i feel we could stiffle his progress.That said, I think that he'll be trade bait come the deadline as Smith is going to be in the lineup next season. A year in GR is all he needs, too much talent wasted in the A, same as i feel that Tatar will be up next year too this kid just ouzes class and he reads the game better than a lot of his peers.

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I've crossed off the players who were retained by the Red Wings specifically for the services they provide that you say the team is losing.

It's hard to argue for your Shanny point given the team's success since his departure. Yzerman's effect as a manager still being determined at this point. He's looked good so far in Tampa but they haven't won s*** (and a short stint with Team Canada the includes all of this Wings managerial buddies doesn't count as NHL success). People will ultimately judge his effectiveness as a GM by what happens in Tampa Bay. I wish him all the best in his managerial career except for when that success would hurt the Detroit Red Wings. In the end the logo on the front of the jersey matters more than the name on the back.

You've crossed off Chelios. Hard to argue, I guess, against the impact a sure-fire, first ballot, Hall of Famer is having on the ON ICE product these past couple of Seasons, as he sits in the Press box in his dress shirt and jacket. Same for Maltby, as he performs glorified PR duty. Again....it's not about what these guys bring in the PRESS BOX, but what they brought to the lockerroom.

Yzerman, as VP, was rarely IN the actual lockerroom, let alone on the ice.

Regardless, you miss the point:

Yzerman was basically shoved out, because it was posited to him that Players like Dats and Hank would never be able to take the reins while living under his vast, Legendary shadow in the lockerroom. True? Perhaps? But word has it that Stevie wasn't ready to retire. Not yet, not yet! That he wanted just ONE MORE Season....a chance at 700 goals - just eight more....just EIGHT MORE.... - and maybe a better end than a First Round exit playing in front of a career back-up, but was "shamed" into retiring - his Pride poked and prodded until he had no choice but to admit that he was maybe little more than a shadow of his former self. Perhaps he'd be doing the Team a favor by retiring..... Regardless, it was reported that Stevie chose to retire, rather than play another Season under Babcock, eight goals notwithstanding.

And Chelios was humiliated and discarded before his departure. Not necessary. Not after the career he had. Not after his time in Detroit. Everyone just assumed that Roenick, blowhard that he is, was simply bloviating. But where there's smoke....

Same with Maltby. Sidelined with an injury last year, he took the hit, had the shoulder surgery during the Season, rather than in the off-season, so that the Team could use his cap space....took the hit for the Team, only to be *****-slapped this Season. How hard would it have been to have Maltby skate ONE LAST TIME, on Opening Night at the Joe, as Bert was nursing an injury and was questionable to go, anyway? He could have played on Opening Night, then announced his retirement the next day. But? No. No farewell for the long-time Grind Line member, and fan favorite. Fourteen years with the Wings. Four Stanley Cups. "Yeahthanksbyemalts."

And Shanny? LOL....Shanny was a 40 goal scorer in his last Season in Detroit. He bolted in disgust over the treatment Stevie received. Stevie,o of all people! Holland wanted Shanny back, but Brendan decided that he'd rather LOSE in New York than play for a Contender under Babcock. Ask around.

The point is.....players like Stevie, and Shanny, and Cheli, and Malts....USED to be retained until they had molded their "replacements", shaping with words, and wisdom, and experience....imparting by word AND by Deed, what it means to be a Red Wing, what it means to don the Winged Wheel.

Now? They're shoved off into the sunset, "thanksheresyourgoldwatchandyourfrontofficejob", without regard, or respect, for what they've contributed to the Organization.

It's showing. It's showing in the play on the ice, in the slow crumbling of this Team's cohesion. They don't have that "skate through walls for your Teammate" mentality anymore.

Deny it if you'd like, but it's happening.

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Like it or not-- Howard is the future of the Wings in net right now. Ozzy is the past. And the difference between Howard's bad starts and Ozzy's good starts hasn't been large enough to justify switching the starter positions. That's why Howard gets the extra start. But because we're both math guys let's look at the stats:

Howard:

30gp 30gs 20W-7L-3OTL 2.70GAA 0.908 Sv% 2SO

Osgood:

10gp 9gs 4W-3L-2OTL 2.74GAA 0.905 Sv% 0SO

I've watched the games too man, I know Ozzy's had a few good ones. But to characterise this situation as being a clear cut case of favourtism ignores the statistical evidence that says Howard wins 67% of his games and Osgood wins 44% of his games (all with nearly identical GAA and Sv%).

Who says Howard is the future? The guy couldn't crack the line-up for 5 years - not with numerous chances. Holland re-signed Osgood to partner with Legace. Then signed a geriatric Hasek the year after. Then Conklin. Then invited DAN FREAKIN' CLOUTIER to Camp! Howard only made the roster when the Wings ran out of options. And he only "earned" a shot at the #1 spot once Osgood went down with the flu/groin injury.

Since then? It doesn't matter HOW he's played, nor how his partner has played. He's been handed the Starting job, regardless of performance. Osgood hasn't even been allowed to compete with him for the job. He has been DESIGNATED as the Starter, just as Legace was in 2005-2006.

We all remember how well that turned out.

And bear in mind that Osgood is posting similar stats while coming in COLD, after sitting on the bench for extended periods of time, while Howard has had more than steady work to keep him in Game shape.

Babcock mucked up the goaltending in 2005-2006. He mucked it up in 2008-2009. He mucked it up last Season. And he's well on his way to mucking it up this Season.

Sit back and watch it happen.

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Who says Howard is the future? The guy couldn't crack the line-up for 5 years - not with numerous chances. Holland re-signed Osgood to partner with Legace. Then signed a geriatric Hasek the year after. Then Conklin. Then invited DAN FREAKIN' CLOUTIER to Camp! Howard only made the roster when the Wings ran out of options. And he only "earned" a shot at the #1 spot once Osgood went down with the flu/groin injury.

Since then? It doesn't matter HOW he's played, nor how his partner has played. He's been handed the Starting job, regardless of performance. Osgood hasn't even been allowed to compete with him for the job. He has been DESIGNATED as the Starter, just as Legace was in 2005-2006.

We all remember how well that turned out.

And bear in mind that Osgood is posting similar stats while coming in COLD, after sitting on the bench for extended periods of time, while Howard has had more than steady work to keep him in Game shape.

Babcock mucked up the goaltending in 2005-2006. He mucked it up in 2008-2009. He mucked it up last Season. And he's well on his way to mucking it up this Season.

Sit back and watch it happen.

Howard was the runner up for the Calder. His merrits as a goaltender obviously aren't in question among the voters for that award. He's had a s***ty season so far but his rookie season was nothing short of brilliant.

And if Steve was really pushed out like that I'd be very angry. It's always bothered me he didn't hit 700 goals. Where did you hear that he didn't want to retire?

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Consider this, everyone: even Brodeur has accepted that he's not the clear-cut starter for the Devils anymore, since he's been significantly outplayed by Hedberg as of late. And you know what? Lemaire is leaning toward starting Hedberg in more games than Brodeur.

From TSN:

Brodeur is cold 0-3-0, 4.67, .783 in last 4 GPI (3.15 GAA, .882 SV% overall)

Hedberg 1-1-0, 2.14, .915 in last 2 GPI (2.93 GAA, .899 SV% overall)

Small sample size, but Hedberg's clearly performing better, so they go with him - even over Brodeur who is rarely shelved (though he's been pulled 7 times this season and only 8 minutes into his last game) except for injury.

Now let's look at Ozzie and Howard, again, from TSN:

Osgood is hot 1-0-0, 2.18, .944 in last 2 GPI (2.74 GAA, .905 SV% overall)

Howard is cold 0-1-1, 4.04, .860 in last 2 GPI (2.70 GAA, .908 SV% overall)

Hell, before checking this, I didn't even realize how close their overall stats had become. Overall, there's very little difference now - short term, however, Ozzie's clearly got the hot hand.

I can sort of understand, though, why Babcock is going with Howard against Edmonton - ordinarily, that's a game that he would throw in Osgood, because Edmonton's a s*** team. Does this mean that Osgood is going to start getting the Vancouvers and Washingtons of the league until he slumps while Howard will be relegated to the Edmontons and New Jerseys of the league?

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Somebody has been popping crazy pills, haven't they?

This team makes back-to-back Finals and came within a game of being back-to-back Cup winners and then make an early round exit in 2010 and all of a sudden they suck, do not fight for each other, and play more as individuals than as a team. Does anyone else see the ridiculousness of this? The NHL is no longer a league of 5 teams with the rest fighting for last place. Parity reigns supreme and many people find this difficult to understand. The Red Wings are still a tremendous team but they are not the powerhouse that they once were and they never will be because of the salary cap. Teams that once lived at the bottom are now right at the top with the Wings. There is a disturbing trend on LGW of not giving the competition enough credit, if any at all. Like it or not the NHL is a league of 25 teams now with the other 5 fighting for last place. It's 2011. Stop thinking like it's 1997.

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I love you guys, in the short term (2 games like that is any kind of sample) you are referring to Howard has had two goals go in off of teammates sticks, another one that was deflected at least two times before it got to him.

The one goal that you could put on Howard in the PHI game if it was Mule who scored it every one would be ranting about how well he goes top shelf.

The team has showed up in the third period of most games lately.

Could it be the fact that they have played so many games in the past month, where as they got a lot of rest earlier in the season?

The team is still one of the tops in Hockey, the just need to get their s*** together. All of them.

Edit:

Missing Dats and Cleary is not helping at all, the offense looks stagnant and lucky to keep the zone at times. The second line should be carrying this team right now.

Edited by Opie

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I love you guys, in the short term (2 games like that is any kind of sample) you are referring to Howard has had two goals go in off of teammates sticks, another one that was deflected at least two times before it got to him.

The one goal that you could put on Howard in the PHI game if it was Mule who scored it every one would be ranting about how well he goes top shelf.

The team has showed up in the third period of most games lately.

Could it be the fact that they have played so many games in the past month, where as they got a lot of rest earlier in the season?

The team is still one of the tops in Hockey, the just need to get their s*** together. All of them.

While Howard has been shaky for the past month or so, those 3 goals against Philly were not as bad as many are making them out to be. The difference between an awesome goal from a sniper and a bad goal that the goalie should have stopped is the Winged wheel. That's the way it goes on LGW. Praise your own, s*** on the rest.

Edit:

Missing Dats and Cleary is not helping at all, the offense looks stagnant and lucky to keep the zone at times. The second line should be carrying this team right now.

The #1 most overlooked fact on LGW for the past week.

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Wow people crack me up... Babcock haters, it's really easy to look back and say he shoulda, woulda, coulda. Hindsight is 20/20. The way you people talk it's like we don't have the most successful sports team over the last 15 years, let alone hockey team. You make it sound like had Babcock only listened to you we'd have 3 more cups. Get over yourselves. When are you going to sit back and realize that although not without mistake, these guys know what they are doing and they are right far more often than they are wrong. It you could do it better you'd be coaching. It's one thing to disagree but your personally attacking Babcock.

What's hindsight about this? Howard has played poorly, Ozzie has looked solid, hence we believe Ozzie should get more starts. That's going forward and Babcock has yet to recognize the problem. I never said Ozzie SHOULD have been the starter all season. Right now, I believe Ozzie deserves more starts and Howard needs fewer.

Besides, just because Babcock and the team has been successful in the past, doesn't mean we as fans should be content and accept every move they make. Yes, mistakes do occur but to say Babcock is always right just because he is the coach and we aren't is absurd. Especially considering Babcock has a very questionable history of handling goaltenders which directly relates to the current situation. I think we're past the point of calling it a mistake, it's a clear flaw in Babcock's coaching ability. I still think he's a terrific coach, but he's stubborn as hell and I don't want that stubborness to cost the Red Wings a wonderful opportunity at winning the Stanley Cup.

Maybe Ozzie doesn't pan out, but then at least we know and tried it. All I'm asking for is Babcock to treat Howard the same way he treated Osgood in the past. He hasn't done that and with each Howard start to come, he continues to ignore a reasonable solution to the problem. Does anyone here trust Jimmy Howard if the playoffs were to start tomorrow?

I guess a discussion board is intended to only praise the team as everything Ken Holland and Mike Babcock does is always correct as they are in the positions to make decisions. I'll be quiet now and watch Howard let in another four goals tonight as clearly that is the route Babcock has chosen for this team to follow.

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And if Steve was really pushed out like that I'd be very angry. It's always bothered me he didn't hit 700 goals. Where did you hear that he didn't want to retire?

It's pretty common knowledge, both in Detroit, and in New York, if you listen to people. Do you think Shanny just up and decided to leave, after all those years in Detroit, after such a fabulous Season, and with absolutely NO deliberation over the decision, on a whim? Brendan and Steve are tight. Shanny left without even glancing back.

Just like folks wrote off what Roenick said about Babs "hating' Chelios, how he was constantly "disrespecting" him? Yeah....JR is a BIG mouth....but why would he come out with something so random and off the wall, and be so vehement about it? Hudler just up and "left", deciding to play in Russia rather than stay in Detroit.

Listen around, Drake. You don't even have to ASK. Just buy a few drinks, sit back, and listen. Hockey men are sociable creatures. Get a few cocktails in 'em, and they'll talk your ear off.

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Consider this, everyone: even Brodeur has accepted that he's not the clear-cut starter for the Devils anymore, since he's been significantly outplayed by Hedberg as of late. And you know what? Lemaire is leaning toward starting Hedberg in more games than Brodeur.

From TSN:

Brodeur is cold 0-3-0, 4.67, .783 in last 4 GPI (3.15 GAA, .882 SV% overall)

Hedberg 1-1-0, 2.14, .915 in last 2 GPI (2.93 GAA, .899 SV% overall)

Small sample size, but Hedberg's clearly performing better, so they go with him - even over Brodeur who is rarely shelved (though he's been pulled 7 times this season and only 8 minutes into his last game) except for injury.

Now let's look at Ozzie and Howard, again, from TSN:

Osgood is hot 1-0-0, 2.18, .944 in last 2 GPI (2.74 GAA, .905 SV% overall)

Howard is cold 0-1-1, 4.04, .860 in last 2 GPI (2.70 GAA, .908 SV% overall)

Hell, before checking this, I didn't even realize how close their overall stats had become. Overall, there's very little difference now - short term, however, Ozzie's clearly got the hot hand.

I can sort of understand, though, why Babcock is going with Howard against Edmonton - ordinarily, that's a game that he would throw in Osgood, because Edmonton's a s*** team. Does this mean that Osgood is going to start getting the Vancouvers and Washingtons of the league until he slumps while Howard will be relegated to the Edmontons and New Jerseys of the league?

Proof is in the pudding. At the end of the day, the only reason most LGWers (including myself) are a bit disillusioned by Babcock's handling of goaltenders in the last two seasons isn't that Osgood isn't starting most games, its that he doesn't seem to be starting any. Someone else said it earlier and I completely agree: when Legace was starter, we stuck with him - when Hasek was starter, we stuck with him (until he really choked, which I do commend Babcock for making the switch in 2008) - when Osgood was starter, we'll see how it goes game to game? - when Howard is the starter, we'll stick with him.

Babcock needs to use a more consistent hand with his goaltenders and more than anything needs to realize that "we're going to ride the hot hand" isn't just a phrase to use when HIS goaltender is hot, but when either goaltender is hot. Howard can't handle a 80-20 or 70-30 split of games and still be prepared for the playoffs. Time will tell if Howard is the real deal or just a temporary solution. In the meantime, this team needs options and two rested goaltenders. Most of use aren't calling for Osgood to be named starter, but a 60-40 or 50-50 split while your backup is hot and starter is cold can't hurt.

Missing Dats and Cleary is not helping at all, the offense looks stagnant and lucky to keep the zone at times. The second line should be carrying this team right now.

Hard for any team to win when a goaltender is flirting with 4 goals against per night, even while the play is spending most of the time on the other side of the ice. We've been spoiled with potent offense and while the defense has had some lapses and Howard has gotten unlucky bounces, him and Osgood both have. Last season, Howard was amazing down the stretch winning games the Wings probably shouldn't have and keeping them afloat while they got healthy. This season, the Wings are banged up, but still competing and Howard has lost them games that the team probably should have won.

One thing that has set Osgood apart from many of his peers is his ability to win the games that his team has earned. It seems like an easy task, but its not. Some of the greatest goaltenders of all time could win when the team should have lost but were shrinking violets when the team was carrying play. Joseph and Hasek were both goaltenders that could steal games in the past but were a less than great fit in Detroit because they couldn't finish what the team started.

All of that said, this is really about Osgood winning in a 46 save effort on the road and then being benched for what looks like at least 4 games. In the 3 of those games that have been played by Howard since, he had all but lost vs. Dallas before his team pulled him out with 6 straight, and lost to the Islanders and didn't finish vs. Philadelphia.

Veery likes this

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While Howard has been shaky for the past month or so, those 3 goals against Philly were not as bad as many are making them out to be. The difference between an awesome goal from a sniper and a bad goal that the goalie should have stopped is the Winged wheel. That's the way it goes on LGW. Praise your own, s*** on the rest.

The #1 most overlooked fact on LGW for the past week.

The past week? This s***ty play has been going on for the pass month. It's just more evident now because the two players that showed up every night are out.

HankthaTank likes this

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You've crossed off Chelios. Hard to argue, I guess, against the impact a sure-fire, first ballot, Hall of Famer is having on the ON ICE product these past couple of Seasons, as he sits in the Press box in his dress shirt and jacket. Same for Maltby, as he performs glorified PR duty. Again....it's not about what these guys bring in the PRESS BOX, but what they brought to the lockerroom.

Yzerman, as VP, was rarely IN the actual lockerroom, let alone on the ice.

Regardless, you miss the point:

Yzerman was basically shoved out, because it was posited to him that Players like Dats and Hank would never be able to take the reins while living under his vast, Legendary shadow in the lockerroom. True? Perhaps? But word has it that Stevie wasn't ready to retire. Not yet, not yet! That he wanted just ONE MORE Season....a chance at 700 goals - just eight more....just EIGHT MORE.... - and maybe a better end than a First Round exit playing in front of a career back-up, but was "shamed" into retiring - his Pride poked and prodded until he had no choice but to admit that he was maybe little more than a shadow of his former self. Perhaps he'd be doing the Team a favor by retiring..... Regardless, it was reported that Stevie chose to retire, rather than play another Season under Babcock, eight goals notwithstanding.

And Chelios was humiliated and discarded before his departure. Not necessary. Not after the career he had. Not after his time in Detroit. Everyone just assumed that Roenick, blowhard that he is, was simply bloviating. But where there's smoke....

Same with Maltby. Sidelined with an injury last year, he took the hit, had the shoulder surgery during the Season, rather than in the off-season, so that the Team could use his cap space....took the hit for the Team, only to be *****-slapped this Season. How hard would it have been to have Maltby skate ONE LAST TIME, on Opening Night at the Joe, as Bert was nursing an injury and was questionable to go, anyway? He could have played on Opening Night, then announced his retirement the next day. But? No. No farewell for the long-time Grind Line member, and fan favorite. Fourteen years with the Wings. Four Stanley Cups. "Yeahthanksbyemalts."

And Shanny? LOL....Shanny was a 40 goal scorer in his last Season in Detroit. He bolted in disgust over the treatment Stevie received. Stevie,o of all people! Holland wanted Shanny back, but Brendan decided that he'd rather LOSE in New York than play for a Contender under Babcock. Ask around.

The point is.....players like Stevie, and Shanny, and Cheli, and Malts....USED to be retained until they had molded their "replacements", shaping with words, and wisdom, and experience....imparting by word AND by Deed, what it means to be a Red Wing, what it means to don the Winged Wheel.

Now? They're shoved off into the sunset, "thanksheresyourgoldwatchandyourfrontofficejob", without regard, or respect, for what they've contributed to the Organization.

It's showing. It's showing in the play on the ice, in the slow crumbling of this Team's cohesion. They don't have that "skate through walls for your Teammate" mentality anymore.

Deny it if you'd like, but it's happening.

And you have facts to back up those statements or just rumors you heard of?

In a way a do agree with you on Maltby.

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wow are you guys shortsighted! sure howard has had some bad games lately, but you guys do realize for the season is goals against and save percentage are still both better than osgood?!?!?!?!

i am not against osgood getting more starts. having a balance to keep guys fresh is a good thing. having a backup you can be confident in is great as well.

however, i really dont understand all the babcock and howard hate. the team as a whole has been playing pretty poor lately. with all the injuries thats not really surprising.

and for all the love you guys are giving osgood, he has given up multiple first period goals 3 games in a row. so he is continuing the habit he has had the last couple years of giving up lots of goals early in games and forcing the team to have to come from behind.

anywho, can't we all calm down? can't we enjoy the fact that even with several key injuries we are still hanging in there and 2nd in the conference? can't we realize that no matter who is in goal, we aren't going to be as tough without 2 great forwards? (one of whom is all world, a selke winner and was a hart nominee recently; another who was leading the team in goals when he went down; and both of whom are guys that are on the ice in the last minute protecting a lead)

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wow are you guys shortsighted! sure howard has had some bad games lately, but you guys do realize for the season is goals against and save percentage are still both better than osgood?!?!?!?!

Howard's season stats are only marginally better than Osgood's at this point: 2.70 GAA, .908 SV% and 2.74 GAA, .905 SV%, respectively. And that's with Howard having two shutouts, while Osgood has none.

And, this just in from Twitter:

@RedWingsFeed:

Red Wings' Mike Babcock changes mind, will start Chris Osgood in goal against Oilers http://19FTW.in/Cg5y0

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