After several games of watching the young'ens

[Konnan511 1,736]

Flat out ridiculous, on all levels...

How? You wouldn't take an upgrade over a player? Glad you aren't a GM.

[stevkrause 1,247]

How? You wouldn't take an upgrade over a player? Glad you aren't a GM.

A. It's a salary cap league - having dead money is the sign of a bad GM, something Holland isn't and you clearly would be.

B. You aren't going to find an upgrade to Holmstrom at his price level (if nothing else, just for his value on the PP)

C. The culture of the Wings is part of what makes them so great - management signs players with the intent of them playing their whole contract and in turn players sign contracts at a discount here with the intent of completing their contract and in most cases, career here

He will not and should not retire, nor should anyone want him to and to imply anything otherwise is ridiculous and short sighted.

[eva unit zero 271]

Not sure I agree with your assessment of Eaves though. Beginning of the season, I was with you and thought he was just s plugger with decent hands and a decent shot. He's been showing something recently though and if he can continue to build on that, I could see him being another Cleary type. He just needs Cleary's ethic. Seems like he may have it. Like most things though, time will tell on him. Looks like he's going to have plenty of opportunities this season to prove himself. Who knows...

Cleary is definitely the player I would most compare Eaves to. However, at the beginning of this year and even last year, I was not one of the ones calling him a 'plugger with decent hands' as you state. I said then as I have said now that he has second-line skill, and would be perfectly fine in that role; it's just that the Wings have such a logjam at forward, and Eaves' is a good skater, very good defensively and plays a physical game. Because of those things he plays mostly on the fourth line and is a key to the PK unit.

[stevkrause 1,247]

Cleary is definitely the player I would most compare Eaves to. However, at the beginning of this year and even last year, I was not one of the ones calling him a 'plugger with decent hands' as you state. I said then as I have said now that he has second-line skill, and would be perfectly fine in that role; it's just that the Wings have such a logjam at forward, and Eaves' is a good skater, very good defensively and plays a physical game. Because of those things he plays mostly on the fourth line and is a key to the PK unit.

Eaves can fill so many roles and is so versatile, not to mention the fact that he seems very at home here in Detroit - As I've been saying all along, he needs to be locked up long term, simple as that. I can't emphasize enough how strongly I feel about that...

[Frozen-Man 144]

Modano is done after this year. I think Drew Miller is a decent defensive asset, but maybe we ship him out of town for someone a little more well rounded. Thinking retirement for Draper, although he has shown he is still durable. Re-sign Ericsson and Eaves, along with Howard. Have Mursak be the 13th or 14th forward. I think Lidstrom and Salei are done on the blue line after this year, as well, so i'd be happy with someone like Ryan Suter, Tim Gleason, or Kevin Bieksa to take Lidstrom's spot. Hell, Dion Phaneuf would be a hell of an acquisition from Toronto. Not sure if he will be available or not, though. As far as Salei's spot, someone like Jim Vandemeer or Shane O'Brien seem to fit the bill.

I hope Lids isn't done and wonder if the year he is having (leading contender for the Norris) will help him to decide to continue playing.

Yes, if it means an upgrade.

How exactly would you go about that. What player are you going to get that is an upgrade on Homer while tacking on Homer's cap hit to this new player.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

I hope Lids isn't done and wonder if the year he is having (leading contender for the Norris) will help him to decide to continue playing.

IF (note the if) it ends with Lord Stanley, I mean I am no expert by any means , I could see it being the perfect end for the perfect human. But I hope he plays another 50 years to be honest.

[dropkickshanahans 463]

If it was about the NBA we would see one from you too, slick .

Touche.

[Frozen-Man 144]

IF (note the if) it ends with Lord Stanley, I mean I am no expert by any means , I could see it being the perfect end for the perfect human. But I hope he plays another 50 years to be honest.

Yeah, I would agree with that. I can see Nick being about to walk away from the game and what better time then to go out on top. I can also see wanting to defend it too though.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

Yeah, I would agree with that. I can see Nick being about to walk away from the game and what better time then to go out on top. I can also see wanting to defend it too though.

Just real tough to defend or repeat in today's NHL but if it means more hockey from Nick, I am all for it. It is going to take quite a few years to allow it to sink in as to what type of player we have had the witness to watch over these past 19 seasons. Sure we all know how great he is but we are talking one of the very best to EVER play that position.

Edited January 12, 2011 by HankthaTank

[Frozen-Man 144]

Just real tough to defend or repeat in today's NHL but if it means more hockey from Nick, I am all for it. It is going to take quite a few years to allow it to sink in as to what type of player we have had the witness to watch over these past 19 seasons. Sure we all know how great he is but we are talking one of the very best to EVER play that position.

Yeah if they win a defense would be incredibly hard. I just wonder if he will have the burning desire to try. Could agree more about what a loss it will be when he does retire.

[Broken 16 381]

Cleary is definitely the player I would most compare Eaves to. However, at the beginning of this year and even last year, I was not one of the ones calling him a 'plugger with decent hands' as you state. I said then as I have said now that he has second-line skill, and would be perfectly fine in that role; it's just that the Wings have such a logjam at forward, and Eaves' is a good skater, very good defensively and plays a physical game. Because of those things he plays mostly on the fourth line and is a key to the PK unit.

Well... when I say a solid plugger with a decent shot and hands, that's was my assessment when compared to the Wings above him on the depth chart. No doubt he always had second line skill. He was drafted fairly early IIRC. Mainly I'm impressed with how he shifts to open ice and finds little pockets in the offensive zone a'la sniper style. I don't know if we ever really had a chance to see that from him consistently last season. His confidence is continuing to build. It's a beautiful thing.

Edited January 13, 2011 by Broken 16

[Buppy 1,720]

I wasn't referring to LTIR - Just our straight up cap space available from this year will cover his bonuses...

Check my post again. Provided no more call-ups, and injured players come back around when expected, we'd be left with about $100k in cap space before factoring in any bonuses. If Salei and Modano are able to earn any significant portion of their potential bonuses, we're going to have some carryover.

[stevkrause 1,247]

Check my post again. Provided no more call-ups, and injured players come back around when expected, we'd be left with about $100k in cap space before factoring in any bonuses. If Salei and Modano are able to earn any significant portion of their potential bonuses, we're going to have some carryover.

Where are you getting your numbers from? We had over 700k+ coming into the season, even with callups, it will not cut into that more than 450k...

[Buppy 1,720]

Where are you getting your numbers from? We had over 700k+ coming into the season, even with callups, it will not cut into that more than 450k...

Capgeek. We had just under $625k before bonuses and callups. $50k bonus carryover from last year. About $260k spent so far on callups (as of yesterday). Estimate of around $215k for Mursak/MacDonald remaining. Leaves around $100k before bonuses.

Again, not a big deal provided the estimated re-signing costs we're thinking of are in the ballpark. $700K-1.3M isn't too much to hope for in a cap raise, and that's assuming Salei and Modano make most of their bonuses.

Really only gets sticky if the cap stagnates, and/or some of our FAs perform well enough to demand a big raise. Even then, we have options with trades.

[stevkrause 1,247]

Capgeek. We had just under $625k before bonuses and callups. $50k bonus carryover from last year. About $260k spent so far on callups (as of yesterday). Estimate of around $215k for Mursak/MacDonald remaining. Leaves around $100k before bonuses.

Again, not a big deal provided the estimated re-signing costs we're thinking of are in the ballpark. $700K-1.3M isn't too much to hope for in a cap raise, and that's assuming Salei and Modano make most of their bonuses.

Really only gets sticky if the cap stagnates, and/or some of our FAs perform well enough to demand a big raise. Even then, we have options with trades.

EDIT - Even though the numbers are close, I don't see it being a problem and if Lidstrom retires, it won't even be a question.

Edited January 13, 2011 by stevkrause

[stevkrause 1,247]

I agree with most things you've said besides trading Kindl would be a huge mistake, and it won't happen anyways. Miller is useless i'm fairly certain he'll be gone after this year. Also, Kevin Bieksa to replace Lidstrom? Yikes! Don't get me wrong Bieksa's on a good streak, but he's pretty much Vancouver fans whipping boy. It would be embarrasing to pick him up to replace Lids, he's AT BEST, a #4 defensemen.

I meant to reply to this earlier, Bieksa wouldn't be REPLACING Lidstrom, no one could do that, it would be a defense by committee approach, expecting everyone to step up and fill a role and yes, Bieksa is a #4, which is just fine, because we already have 3 VERY capable top 3 guys and another one in the making... arguing that Bieksa wouldn't fit here though, or fill a role is crazy - He can play 20 minutes, good on the PP and is a physical presence...

You were saying?

[eva unit zero 271]

I meant to reply to this earlier, Bieksa wouldn't be REPLACING Lidstrom, no one could do that, it would be a defense by committee approach, expecting everyone to step up and fill a role and yes, Bieksa is a #4, which is just fine, because we already have 3 VERY capable top 3 guys and another one in the making... arguing that Bieksa wouldn't fit here though, or fill a role is crazy - He can play 20 minutes, good on the PP and is a physical presence...

You were saying?

Pitkanen is 27 and his cap hit is $4m. Bieksa is 29 and his cap hit is $3.75m.

Both are UFAs this summer.

Who do you want, a decent second pairing defenseman or a bonafide top pairing defenseman?

[Konnan511 1,736]

Latest numbers, December 6th, show the cap rising by 3 million. Bonuses are no worry.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Mursak can make the jump now and should since he can't play in the AHL next year anyway (unless they want to expose him to waivers).

Tatar needs time to adjust to the professional game. He's only played a year and a half of North American hockey and he just turned 20 last month. It's easy to forget Tatar's a 2009 draft pick. He looked good in Detroit but obviously needed to continue to improve his strength (although he got a lot stronger this past summer and by all accounts is highly committed to being a professional althelete on and off the ice). Tatar's talent, vision and skating showed at the NHL level in his first call-up but we haven't seen everything he can offer yet. Another year on the first line in the AHL will serve him well. Hopefully the Wings make a deep run in the playoffs this year and he can soak as much of the atmosphere up as possible as a black ace. It's a shame he didn't get a chance to play with Datsyuk or Zetterberg during his call-up but I'm sure practicing with them would be eye opening too. He's the kind of kid who elevates his game to the level of the competition. Now that he's tasted the NHL you better believe he's hungry and motivated to get back and stay there. He did the same thing when the Wings gave him a shot at the AHL. I'm sure he'll make it hard for Holland to keep him in the AHL for long.

Ericsson is playing like the guy we saw in the 09 playoffs. Signing him is a no-brainer.

Kindl hasn't impressed me in the NHL yet. E showed a lot more in his first NHL games.

Smith was tearing it up in the AHL before his knee injury (although he slowed down after the first few months-- which makes sense given the fact that he played college hockey before the AHL). I'd like to see Smith get some call-up time in the NHL as well. At this point his defensive game needs work but his offensive game is brilliant. (he's a great skater too) If there's a top 6 defensive spot open on the roster next season I'm betting Smith makes the team. His situation is similar to E's a few years ago-- they won't let him waste away in the pressbox.

Emmerton had a great season in GR before his injury. He'll have to make the team next season as well, so I expect we'll see him called up at some point this season once he's healthy.

Next year should be a fun year in GR with Callahan and Nyquist pretty much a lock to make the team. I wouldn't be surprised to see Jarnkrok and Plukkinen get PTO's in GR at the end of their European seasons (depending on when their teams exit the playoffs). Both looked excellent at the WJC although they definitely need to get pro size and coniditioning. I bet one or both will be given the oppertunity to make the Griffs just like Tatar was given coming out of training camp in 09.

imagine how fun it's gonna be to watch GR next year with Nyquist, Callahan, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, I. Filppula, J. Andersson, Tatar and hopefully Almqvist will cross the pond and play in GR. I havn't seen any GR games this year, but i'm excited to see Smith play and I'm also interested in seeing Lashoff cause i've heard he's pretty good. Not sure if i missed anyone that could make GR next year, but i don't really count Landon Ferraro anymore as he seems like a bust with an attitude and Nestrasil sucked at the WJC and will never sniff even GR let alone the Wings. Other than those 2, things are looking pretty good for the Wings.

[eva unit zero 271]

I'm pretty sure that doesn't account for the overage allowed by Datsyuk's LTIR, but we're splitting hairs anyway - As you said the re-signing's likely shouldn't break that amount anyway and if Lidstrom retires, well then we're REALLY in the clear cap wise

"Oh man, even though it's constantly discussed on here I STILL don't understand how LTIR relief works. But it's ok, because we'll be able to cover raises for our fourth liners once that dickhead Lidstrom retires!"

[stevkrause 1,247]

"Oh man, even though it's constantly discussed on here I STILL don't understand how LTIR relief works. But it's ok, because we'll be able to cover raises for our fourth liners once that dickhead Lidstrom retires!"

That's not at ALL what I said, or implied...

imagine how fun it's gonna be to watch GR next year with Nyquist, Callahan, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, I. Filppula, J. Andersson, Tatar and hopefully Almqvist will cross the pond and play in GR. I havn't seen any GR games this year, but i'm excited to see Smith play and I'm also interested in seeing Lashoff cause i've heard he's pretty good. Not sure if i missed anyone that could make GR next year, but i don't really count Landon Ferraro anymore as he seems like a bust with an attitude and Nestrasil sucked at the WJC and will never sniff even GR let alone the Wings. Other than those 2, things are looking pretty good for the Wings.

I wonder if Ilari will still be with the team... he'll have to clear waivers next season due to his age and there's a good chance he'll want to play on the big club, or go back to Finland...

Latest numbers, December 6th, show the cap rising by 3 million. Bonuses are no worry.

If this ends up being the case, then without a doubt, this is all a moot point...

[Konnan511 1,736]

imagine how fun it's gonna be to watch GR next year with Nyquist, Callahan, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, I. Filppula, J. Andersson, Tatar and hopefully Almqvist will cross the pond and play in GR.

Fixed.

Holland/Nill and co already said Jarnkrok is staying at least another year in SEL. I bet they do the same with Pulkkinen. Almqvist I suspect will spend another two seasons in the SEL, maybe just one more.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

So a player has never retired after signing a multi-year contract? I understand his contract situation and the ramifications of said retirement.

His retiring would create a bigger problem-- his contract would count against the cap AND the Wings would have to pay a player to occupy his roster spot. I assume it was understood that he wouldn't retire early (barring injuries) when he signed the contract.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

How? You wouldn't take an upgrade over a player? Glad you aren't a GM.

Your comment doesn't make much sense in a cap world. How many players out there are going to provide an upgrade over Holmstrom that is worth their salary PLUS his salary? You're either looking at a rookie (expensive in terms of obtaining via trade or cheap but a huge gamble), a player on an entry level contract who is a known performer (expensive to obtain), a reclaimation project (gamble) or a veteran very near the end of their career (gamble).

[HankthaTank 1,100]

Your comment doesn't make much sense in a cap world. How many players out there are going to provide an upgrade over Holmstrom that is worth their salary PLUS his salary? You're either looking at a rookie (expensive in terms of obtaining via trade or cheap but a huge gamble), a player on an entry level contract who is a known performer (expensive to obtain), a reclaimation project (gamble) or a veteran very near the end of their career (gamble).

He couldn't be much worse than this guy: