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jollymania

Brule crushes Letang

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If you are referring to #10, that's definitely a charge. He leaves his feet before contact.

Exactly. Distance travelled (which many people like to quote number of steps....which really isn't in the rule at all) is one way you can get called for charging. However, I think the most common reason for a charging penalty is when you leave your feet to make the hit. When I look at the video, it looks to me like Brule left his feet before he made contact, which is why I'm okay with the call.

Someone may argue that they see it differently and that he didn't leave his feet (even though video doesn't really lie on that), that's fine, then you are arguing he should have rec'd a 2 minute penalty...so what? How is that different than arguing about a bad tripping call? I don't see how this call is because the league is moving away from big body checks in anyway whatsoever.

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Haha. Love the hit, but I can see why they called a charge. It happens, get over it. I'd only be bothered if he was ejected and/or was banned.

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The fault is on Letang for not keeping his head, hands, and stick up to protect himself. He got caught completely stationary, turned around, watched his pass for a second, forgot about the forecheck in doing so, and got buried. Brule coasted in, hit him front-on, with his arms up on his chest, while Letang was totally unready to get hit hit. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this play from Brule's end.

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The fault is on Letang for not keeping his head, hands, and stick up to protect himself. He got caught completely stationary, turned around, watched his pass for a second, forgot about the forecheck in doing so, and got buried. Brule coasted in, hit him front-on, with his arms up on his chest, while Letang was totally unready to get hit hit. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this play from Brule's end.

yep, 100% letangs fault. this concussion hysteria really bothers me, people know the risks, now how about the nhl quits being so utterly wimpy, having all teams be as wimpy as the red wings would be BAD for the game.

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no he doesn't

I bet Todd Bertuzzi's attack on Steve Moore was justified and no penalty should have been called, right?

jesus, the NHL is going to s***.

I'm going to start jumping into hits, leading with my helmet, hands, and elbows and see how that does for me in my hockey games. I bet I spend a lot of time watching from a small box.

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The fault is on Letang for not keeping his head, hands, and stick up to protect himself. He got caught completely stationary, turned around, watched his pass for a second, forgot about the forecheck in doing so, and got buried. Brule coasted in, hit him front-on, with his arms up on his chest, while Letang was totally unready to get hit hit. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this play from Brule's end.

I 100% agree with everything you said until your last comment that Brule did nothing wrong. You forgot to mention that he jumped into the hit, which you can't do and has been a rule for quite awhile. I like the rule because it can be dangerous. In most cases, jumping into a hit is no big deal, but because it can be dangerous, you'll get a penalty for it. No big deal, just a 2 minute penalty.

The way this is being debated, you'd think Brule was suspended for 5 games or something.

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yep, 100% letangs fault. this concussion hysteria really bothers me, people know the risks, now how about the nhl quits being so utterly wimpy, having all teams be as wimpy as the red wings would be BAD for the game.

I really didn't want to reply in here about the consussion/headshot hysteria becuase I don't think it has anything to do with why Brule got a "penalty.", but I will anyway.

It has absolutely nothing to do with being wimpy, headshots and concussions are very serious. We're talking about people's lives here, we're not talking about people complaining about a hit hurting and maybe giving them a bruise. People's lives have been cut-short or completely changed by concussions. No one is suggesting anyone is more tough than someone else because they can take a headshot....anyone who thinks along those lines is simply ignorant.

The big issue with trying to ban headshots all together isn't that people think it isn't a big issue and if it happens, it happens. EVERYONE and I mean 100% of EVERYONE involved with the game, would love to eliminate head shots all together. The issue though is how can you do that without impacting the game. You may end up having players avoid delivering hits all together so as to avoid delivering a head shot (things happen at high speed, sometimes you are not fully in control of the outcome when you intend to make a clean hit).

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I really didn't want to reply in here about the consussion/headshot hysteria becuase I don't think it has anything to do with why Brule got a "penalty.", but I will anyway.

It has absolutely nothing to do with being wimpy, headshots and concussions are very serious. We're talking about people's lives here, we're not talking about people complaining about a hit hurting and maybe giving them a bruise. People's lives have been cut-short or completely changed by concussions. No one is suggesting anyone is more tough than someone else because they can take a headshot....anyone who thinks along those lines is simply ignorant.

The big issue with trying to ban headshots all together isn't that people think it isn't a big issue and if it happens, it happens. EVERYONE and I mean 100% of EVERYONE involved with the game, would love to eliminate head shots all together. The issue though is how can you do that without impacting the game. You may end up having players avoid delivering hits all together so as to avoid delivering a head shot (things happen at high speed, sometimes you are not fully in control of the outcome when you intend to make a clean hit).

I can see where you're coming from. Some here know how I feel about the necessity of enforcers and the embellishment given to their correlation to wins, but what's been concerning me over the last several seasons, especially this one and the last, is that people are trying to pacify what is already a violent sport. Hockey is a physically violent sport. Football is a physically violent sport. The type of fighting in the UFC or boxing is a physically violent sport.

I can understand the logic of making things "fair" in terms of sport and giving each team an equal chance to win, with letting talent be the winning factor in most or all cases. However, I cannot and will not ever see the logic behind what I feel is the very same thing happening to the NHL as the NFL, which is this prudish-like evolution of sports which will always be physically violent into something that is "nice" by nitpicking it to hell, which is exactly what is being done by dissecting and penalizing every clean or even marginal hit. It is not going to result in cleaner hits with a sport that is that quick and includes that much physical violence. It's only going to bog the game down in bureaucracy and make these leagues suck as a representative of a certain sport, as well as, unfortunately, evolve the sport itself into something quite confusing. If one wants to avoid injury so badly they should play in another league or another sport where the prospect of getting badly injured is significantly lower.

What I think should be addressed is the lack of respect for other players. Clearly this has declined league wide, even though it has always existed, to a smaller degree. This would go much further in the possibility in getting players to hold up on another possible vulnerable player, but then again, who the player is, on the ice, is without a doubt a factor into how much someone will go out of their way to finish a check. That's why something between the players, on the ice, needs to budge. The NHL trying to implement these new shoddy rules isn't going to change anything but make the game less exciting to watch.

Edited by Shoreline
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Great hit. Nothing wrong with that. The Pens commentators are the biggest idiotic homers, I thought Jack Edwards was bad.

Boston is worse.

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What I think should be addressed is the lack of respect for other players. Clearly this has declined league wide, even though it has always existed, to a smaller degree.

Ok...

So if I understand this right, you are saying that there is less respect among players now than there was previously. You do realize that you said it in a totally jacked up way, right?

Anyway, with regards to respect... talk to Eddie Shore, Ted Lindsay, Gordie Howe, Bobby Clarke, Ulf Samuelsson, Bryan Marchment, Tie Domi, Chris Simon, or Todd Bertuzzi about how there's less respect in the game now. There's certainly more than when they played, or in Bertuzzi's case when he played for Vancouver and nearly killed a guy because his captain got injured in a race for the puck.

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Ok...

So if I understand this right, you are saying that there is less respect among players now than there was previously. You do realize that you said it in a totally jacked up way, right?

Anyway, with regards to respect... talk to Eddie Shore, Ted Lindsay, Gordie Howe, Bobby Clarke, Ulf Samuelsson, Bryan Marchment, Tie Domi, Chris Simon, or Todd Bertuzzi about how there's less respect in the game now. There's certainly more than when they played, or in Bertuzzi's case when he played for Vancouver and nearly killed a guy because his captain got injured in a race for the puck.

His captain got injured by an elbow thrown by the guy who ended up getting his neck broken. If anything you just handed me a nice piece of evidence to show this, although I could break out quotes from players too who played in a few decades of NHL hockey, including the last one, to be adequately able to explain the more widespread lack of respect. ;)

As for the "jacked up" way, it was purposely worded like that to prevent a smart ass response of "but lack of respect has always existed" or "existed back then too". ^_^ Trust me, someone would have done it.

Edited by Shoreline

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His captain got injured by an elbow thrown by the guy who ended up getting his neck broken.

I'm not exactly sure who you are referring to. Chara is the Bruins' captain and was not injured, but on multiple occasions tried to start s*** with Pacioretty. I could see it as a reference to Bertuzzi... but Moore didn't elbow Naslund.

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I'm not exactly sure who you are referring to. Chara is the Bruins' captain and was not injured, but on multiple occasions tried to start s*** with Pacioretty. I could see it as a reference to Bertuzzi... but Moore didn't elbow Naslund.

Moore elbowed Naslund. It was a reference to Bertuzzi, my bad on not being specific. However, even if by your standards it was a clean hit, it still wasn't, because..

a clean hockey hit transfers most of your forward momentum, and keeps you standing on the ice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMHO8LgItNo

And he was obviously lunging toward Naslund.

This pertains to respect on the ice. This hit is not respect, and ironically disrespect caused a reaction of another incident of disrespect. Don't think Bert decided to follow Steve Moore around and then bash his head in for the fun of it. As mentioned, you handed me a nice piece of evidence to show this. :)

Edited by Shoreline

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Just for fun, if the Moore hit on Naslund happened today, how many games do you think he'd get? I'm thinking all lot. Looks like a bigger, more intential head shot than the Richards and Cooke hits and Naslund looked to be in a very vunerable position as well.

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Just for fun, if the Moore hit on Naslund happened today, how many games do you think he'd get? I'm thinking all lot. Looks like a bigger, more intential head shot than the Richards and Cooke hits and Naslund looked to be in a very vunerable position as well.

I would argue they were in a race for the puck, given that Moore went after THE PUCK instead of Naslund, and then tucked his elbow IN when he realized he was probably going to collide with Naslund.

Calling that an elbow, an intentional knee-on-knee, or an intentional head shot is about the last place I'd go. Moore pulled both his elbow and knee in to try and avoid Naslund; so much so with the knee that he himself went into the boards. He's not lunging towards Naslund. He's trying not to take out Naslund's knee because Naslund is sticking it out to the world saying "wreck my career!"

People say Moore was just another Matt Cooke. Had it been Cooke instead of Moore on that hit, Naslund doesn't get up. And possibly doesn't play another game in the NHL.

His elbow may not have been "tucked" as if he were actually throwing a hit. But the primary point of contact was still not the elbow. Just because his arm wasn't tucked in to his gut doesn't make it an elbow; the elbow never factored into the contact. And the contact wasn't even an intentional hit. Chara on Pacioretty is fifty times worse than Moore on Naslund, even if Max had come up with no injuries.

EDIT: Moore would probably have gotten around 5 games, because his shoulder hit Naslund's head and Naslund was a star player. Even though Moore was trying for the puck and not Naslund, the NHL would have looked at the injury and said "Sorry dude, you get to sit."

Edited by eva unit zero

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Eva, Moore's shoulder is not down at the middle of the "3" on his back, where it hits Naslund's face at 0:02 and 0:07. If his shoulders were that low he simply was not human. Rest assured Naslund needed to keep his head up but that was the head hunting, east-west kind of hit prototype the NHL says it wants to rid of.

Moore stuck out his stick but he was not going for the puck which you can clearly see as Naslund is looking at it, he was going for Naslund (someone I'm sure he knew wasn't going to go for a hit), he certainly wasn't even trying to stay on his feet, yet his hit was clean, and only gets suspended because Naslund is a star, which contradicts your "clean hit" condition of "keeps you standing on the ice" in this very topic.

But again, the point of this is not to battle about technicalities (you just can't seem to get past them), but to show how disrespect on the ice, which has dramatically increased league-wide, produces the same thing which leads to what Bert did. That is, if one gets past the simple notion of merely looking at what Bert did and proclaiming it as bad and looks at the conditions which allowed that to happen.

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I would argue they were in a race for the puck, given that Moore went after THE PUCK instead of Naslund, and then tucked his elbow IN when he realized he was probably going to collide with Naslund.

Calling that an elbow, an intentional knee-on-knee, or an intentional head shot is about the last place I'd go. Moore pulled both his elbow and knee in to try and avoid Naslund; so much so with the knee that he himself went into the boards. He's not lunging towards Naslund. He's trying not to take out Naslund's knee because Naslund is sticking it out to the world saying "wreck my career!"

People say Moore was just another Matt Cooke. Had it been Cooke instead of Moore on that hit, Naslund doesn't get up. And possibly doesn't play another game in the NHL.

His elbow may not have been "tucked" as if he were actually throwing a hit. But the primary point of contact was still not the elbow. Just because his arm wasn't tucked in to his gut doesn't make it an elbow; the elbow never factored into the contact. And the contact wasn't even an intentional hit. Chara on Pacioretty is fifty times worse than Moore on Naslund, even if Max had come up with no injuries.

EDIT: Moore would probably have gotten around 5 games, because his shoulder hit Naslund's head and Naslund was a star player. Even though Moore was trying for the puck and not Naslund, the NHL would have looked at the injury and said "Sorry dude, you get to sit."

It's fascinating how I can see that hit completely differently than you. I could care less about whether it was an elbow or not, that's not the point. It was a hit where the head was targeted. In terms of it being a race for the puck, I truly believe you are fabricating something that doesn't exist. When I watch that, I see Moore as a guy who has absolutely no interest in the puck at all, in fact, in preparation for the hist, he lightly brushes the puck aside with his stick to get it out of the way....he didn't want it, he wanted the hit.

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It's fascinating how I can see that hit completely differently than you. I could care less about whether it was an elbow or not, that's not the point. It was a hit where the head was targeted. In terms of it being a race for the puck, I truly believe you are fabricating something that doesn't exist. When I watch that, I see Moore as a guy who has absolutely no interest in the puck at all, in fact, in preparation for the hist, he lightly brushes the puck aside with his stick to get it out of the way....he didn't want it, he wanted the hit.

It was a race for the puck. Moore made a defensive play by knocking the puck away from the league's leading scorer. If he had been going for the hit, he would have kept his left foot on the ice, not picked it up to avoid Naslund's irresponsibly outstreched leg.

I find it amusing that even in this thread there is so much "It's his own fault, his head was down!" and this was the case with Naslund. Naslund even said so when interviewed afterwards. Moore didn't push off into Naslund or swing his elbow at Naslund. Only his right foot was in contact with the ice when the "hit" occurred. That's not an intentional hit, unless it's a guy like Gretzky who doesn't hit. Moore was a guy who hit. He knew how and could have hit Naslund a lot harder if he was trying to.

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In today's game Moore would probably get a fine.

He saw a vulnerable player and took advantage, but Naslund shouldn't have stuck his face out like that at the same time.

Also, I don't know where this "lack of respect" thing came from. When have hockey players ever had "respect" that kept them from beating the Christ out of each other?

Eddie Shore? Old time hockey?

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In today's game Moore would probably get a fine.

He saw a vulnerable player and took advantage, but Naslund shouldn't have stuck his face out like that at the same time.

Also, I don't know where this "lack of respect" thing came from. When have hockey players ever had "respect" that kept them from beating the Christ out of each other?

Eddie Shore? Old time hockey?

I dunno about you but when I see a Red Wings game, I think to myself.. "I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out".

Physical play, which is prominent in hockey, is a far cry from going out of your way to hurt somebody. That creed is an extended golden rule, those who wouldn't make such a hit, and those who aren't dumb enough to put themselves in such a vulnerable position to be hit like that. It is partially thanks to this creed as to why Nick Lidstrom has had such a long and prosperous career. Indeed that does inform us that there's some degree of respect left. On the other hand, if one looks at what happened to Steve Moore (prominent discussion here), and Pacioretty, they did things on the ice to incite this sort of behavior. Certainly this has happened before, however, this is becoming far more widespread since dirty players tend to have little physical repercussions to face for their actions, instead a little slap on the wrist suspension and a fine. While the NHL focuses on "dangerous hits", it misses out completely on the source of them and why they occurred. The answer isn't.. oh, it's hockey.

Edited by Shoreline

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