295 replies to this topic

[Wings_Rule_1010]

Here's what I am thinking will happen. When I was in college at uofm, there was this penalty box chant that included some not so family friendly words. They handed out warnings and started kicking people out. At the beginning a bunch of people would get kicked out and it was enforced regularly. As more and more people got kicked out, more people started using those words, to a point that security pretty much stopped enforcing it. To this day, that chant still goes on.
I think the nhl will closely enforce it at the beginning, but it gets exhausting to kick out and cite all the people who throw octupi out on the ice every game.

And are they going to start enforcing this with vancouver and nashville "traditions" as well?

Edited by Wings_Rule_1010, 15 April 2011 - 04:00 PM.

[wingslogo19]

Here's what Ozzie has to say about this

http://www.mlive.com...ds_to_stop.html

[LAW]

Some updates:

NHL VP of Media Relations Frank Brown sees this controversy as a "rite of spring," and something that comes up in the first-round of the playoffs every April. He said the NHL has not wavered from its stance that the tradition is against League policy for fan behavior.

"I don't believe it's anything new, but I'm waiting to hear back from our security. It's a safety issue. You throw stuff on the ice, people get their skates caught in it, they fall down and hurt themselves. It's wrong. That's a problem," said Brown, in a phone interview this afternoon.

"We have tremendous respect for the custom. We get that part. But not to the point of indulging improper behavior from spectators," he said.

After our conversation, Brown sent over the following statement:

"NHL security did not direct that this person be arrested, or ejected. We do have a prohibition against throwing things to the ice surface since this may cause a delay in game or injury to players or others working on the ice surface."

According to the NHL, the City of Detroit Legal Department has prosecuted fans for throwing an octopus on the ice surface, with the determining factor in whether it violated a local misdemeanor ordinance (section 39.1.1 and 39.1.2) being whether the object could have caused injury to the participants or damage to the playing surface.

Also, the League pointed out that Michigan State Law -- specifically MCL 750.167, Disorderly Person (misdemeanor) section 167. (e) — states that a "disorderly person" is anyone intoxicated in a public place that is "endangering the safety of another person, or of property." According to the League, Michigan State Police "have prosecuted a Detroit Red Wings fan" that threw an octopus while violating that statute.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/NHL-vs-octopus-Detroit-police-fine-Red-Wings-f?urn=nhl-wp2695&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[HankthaTank]

All this talk about the law and all that. It's a freakin' octopus.

Yep.

/tradition stuff

[sleepwalker]

It's like going 5 over the speed limit, 99% of people get away with it, but if you get pulled over and cited for speeding, you still broke the law.

No, its not like that at all.

Its like if people going 5 miles over the speed limit were never cited before, and all of the sudden some foreign multi-billion dollar corporation, who had no interest in the city at all, called up the local police and said;

"Look, I know you never have before, but we are ordering you to now start ticketing people. Why? Because we don't like the people of your city, and we are more powerful AND more wealthy than you, and if you don't obey our orders, we will use our money and power to f*** you over. Yes. That is a threat. Deal with it assholes."


THAT is what it is actually like.

Edited by sleepwalker, 15 April 2011 - 04:06 PM.

[wingslogo19]

Let there be Octopi

[Heroes of Hockeytown]

They will rue the day they stirred this hornet's nest. Rise up citizens! The glorious Octopus Revolution is upon us! Let slip the cephalopod of war!

[Frozen-Man]

I would imagine this ordinance probably would be upheld as a reasonable time, place, or manner restriction of free speech.

Well, I'm not certain that it would even be considered speech under the 1st Amendment. The seminal flag burning case stated that "[t]he First Amendment literally forbids the abridgment only of 'speech,' but we have long recognized that its protection does not end at the spoken or written word. While we have rejected 'the view that an apparently limitless variety of conduct can be labeled `speech' whenever the person engaging in the conduct intends thereby to express an idea,' United States v. O'Brien, supra, at 376, we have acknowledged that conduct may be 'sufficiently imbued with elements of communication to fall within the scope of the First and Fourteenth Amendments,'" Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397, 404 (1989) Based upon the factors listed thereafter in the case I'm not sure the conduct would reach the level required for speech. If however, it were determined speech the question would then be "whether the State's regulation is related to the suppression of free expression." Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397, 403 (1989); see also United States v. O'Brien, 391 U.S. 367, 377 (1968).

The key issues would be that it is likely not even considered speech and if it is speech is not prohibited because of the State is attempting to suppress speech but rather the ordinance is for safety purposes. Similar to the fact that while burning a flag may be protected free speech and a law prohibiting burning flags would be a violation of the 1st Amendment a law that prohibits burning flags in a public building (while having no prohibition against burning flags in other places) would not be a violation of the 1st Amendment. Partially because as you stated time, place, manner restrictions but also largely because the law is not to suppress speech but rather for public safety concerns.

[Blaayze]

RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE!!

This is why Gary Buttman cant have nice things!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by Blaayze, 16 April 2011 - 07:51 AM.

[AtlantaHotWings]

Lets see in the 59 years of Octopus hitting the ice how many injuries have occurred due to "gunk"?

Gary keeps on trying to force his vision of parity not only in the teams lineup but also on traditions.

Going to be a hoot to see how many hit the ice tomorrow.

[Mabuhay Red Wings]

Haha... What a bunch of bullcrap. "We're worried about the safety of our players." You should probably be more worried about that deal you made with the devil.

[Frozen-Man]

No, its not like that at all.

Its like if people going 5 miles over the speed limit were never cited before, and all of the sudden some foreign multi-billion dollar corporation, who had no interest in the city at all, called up the local police and said;

"Look, I know you never have before, but we are ordering you to now start ticketing people. Why? Because we don't like the people of your city, and we are more powerful AND more wealthy than you, and if you don't obey our orders, we will use our money and power to f*** you over. Yes. That is a threat. Deal with it assholes."


THAT is what it is actually like.

I don't like what the NHL is doing and hope that the tradition continues and even happens more just to rub it in their faces however it is not like what you stated:

You stated "had no interest in the city at all" - - The NHL does have an interest in what happens in an NHL rink, to NHL players, during an NHL game. They may be (and I fully think that they are) wrong in what they are wanting to do but to state that they have no interest in what happens is just completely inaccurate. This didn't happen on some random street and so the NHL wants people fined, it happened at an NHL event. Additionally, people ask the police to enforce the law all the time (including laws that are rarely enforced) and almost always the police will have to do it. My wife is a Deputy District Attorney and has to deal with it all the time, the police have to enforce something the "victim" wants them punished, she has some prosecutorial discretion but only to an extent. That is the way that it works a lot. For example the City may not enforce an ordinance that weeds be kept below 6" on residential property but if a neighbor calls and complains they will almost always enforce the ordinance as it relates to the property about which the complaint was made.


Again, please don't interpret this to mean that I like what the NHL did or is doing, I don't at all, but mischaracterizing and distorting what did/is happening isn't necessary when the whole argument is we have been doing this for 60 years, and it is a great tradition and has never been a problem.

[wingslogo19]

I wonder how many are going to hit the ice tomorrow, I'm going with 10

[Frozen-Man]

I wonder how many are going to hit the ice tomorrow, I'm going with 10

We should have a pool and bet on it with the proceeds to go to help pay fines.

[HankthaTank]

Hey, Mule said he would chip and pay the fines for whoever. I say cover the ice!!!!

[b.shanafan14]

Haha... What a bunch of bullcrap. "We're worried about the safety of our players." You should probably be more worried about that deal you made with the devil.

Headshots, horrible/suspicious officiating, cap-circumvention, and Red Wings tradition: NHL pet peeves.

I think its hilarious with all of the other problems in the league, THIS becomes an issue. Holmstrom is practically assaulted in front of the net every night and he is lucky if HE doesn't get a penalty. We are instructing law enforcement to fine FANS?

Five or more octopi on the ice a game, and the Joe STILL has the best ice in the league. Osgood made a great point at the end of the video on MLive. Look at the season finale in Chicago and the game in San Jose last night, there are no standards for the conditions of the ice. I don't think I saw the puck lay flat once after the first period last night. Lets talk about that.

Which is more likely to cause injury to a player: a) dozens of slashes and crosschecks, b) toe-picking on poor ice conditions because Celine Dion and the Bulls had a back-to-back the night before, c) octopus gunk

Hint: the answer is C.

We should have a pool and bet on it with the proceeds to go to help pay fines.

Edited by b.shanafan14, 15 April 2011 - 04:46 PM.

[softshoes]

actually, it was getting sort of ridiculous anyway. do we really need 7 thrown every game?

a bit excessive.

This

It doesn't seem so much about tradition anymore as about ending up on Sports Center or getting hits on YouTube. Peoples tendency to take things to far is as much to blame as Bettman, an opinion that probably won't get me many friends around here.

The thing is if your going to cite people for this you better start citing people for chucking a hat on the ice. IMO that could be considered discriminating by singling out one group.

[brett]

do you guys think when someone throws a octopus onto the ice it effects the wings? fires them up a little or no effect what so ever?

[Theophany]

This

It doesn't seem so much about tradition anymore as about ending up on Sports Center or getting hits on YouTube. Peoples tendency to take things to far is as much to blame as Bettman, an opinion that probably won't get me many friends around here.

The thing is if your going to cite people for this you better start citing people for chucking a hat on the ice. IMO that could be considered discriminating by singling out one group.

No, tossing hats onto the ice is specifically allowed in the NHL rules when someone scores a hat trick.

[b.shanafan14]

"I opened the bag and showed it to them and they said, 'Come on in,'" Balish said. "I've done it eight times before and never had a problem."

When he went to throw the octopus on the ice after Pavel Datsyuk's goal in the second period, he said he was not stopped nor warned by any security guard or usher. Balish also said five other octopi had been tossed on the ice prior to his — and none of those fans were ejected.

"I started to walk up the stairs to go back to my seat and two gentlemen with NHL badges said, 'You're going to jail,'" Balish said.

Reel Fishy. Pun intended.