Win or Lose: This Team *Needs* Nothing

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I can't recall how many times I've said this team needs absolutely nothing in order to beat any other team in this league. The skill is there, it has been for the past how many years. When they play to their ability (as they did last night), there's no team in the league that can skate with them. When they forecheck in all three zones (as they did last night), lopsided shot-counts present themselves and its only a matter of time (typically) before the other team cracks.

This isn't an "I told you so" thread (though it may seem like one), rather its a thread to show how complete this team really is and when they truly want a game, they can dominate it from beginning to end. Win or Lose, thanks Red Wings for an incredible series and for showing the hockey world what kind of metal your made of.

I welcome anyone's thoughts in regards to what this team may or may not need this coming offseason. Keep in mind, I say this team "needs" nothing, which is completely different than saying they shouldn't bring anyone else in.

Edited May 11, 2011 by NeverForgetMac25
Edited Final Paragraph for Clarity.

[puckbags 863]

I can't recall how many times I've said this team needs absolutely nothing in order to beat any other team in this league. The skill is there, it has been for the past how many years. When they play to their ability (as they did last night), there's no team in the league that can skate with them. When they forecheck in all three zones (as they did last night), lopsided shot-counts present themselves and its only a matter of time (typically) before the other team cracks.

This isn't an "I told you so" thread (though it may seem like one), rather its a thread to show how complete this team really is and when they truly want a game, they can dominate it from beginning to end. Win or Lose, thanks Red Wings for an incredible series and for showing the hockey world what kind of metal your made of.

I welcome anyone's criticism in regards to what this team may or may not need this coming offseason.

I agree. It's funny how the off season threads stopped after we started winning again..typical for around here I guess. If this teams works hard and their skill takes over they are the best team in the league. Throw in Jimmy Howard playing the best hockey of his young career and we still have a lot to look forward to in the coming years. Obviously minor changes will always need to be made because of age and free agency but the core of this team will remain intact and compete for some time. In Hockeytown we don't rebuild...we reload !

[wingslogo19 281]

I can't recall how many times I've said this team needs absolutely nothing in order to beat any other team in this league. The skill is there, it has been for the past how many years. When they play to their ability (as they did last night), there's no team in the league that can skate with them. When they forecheck in all three zones (as they did last night), lopsided shot-counts present themselves and its only a matter of time (typically) before the other team cracks.

This isn't an "I told you so" thread (though it may seem like one), rather its a thread to show how complete this team really is and when they truly want a game, they can dominate it from beginning to end. Win or Lose, thanks Red Wings for an incredible series and for showing the hockey world what kind of metal your made of.

I welcome anyone's criticism in regards to what this team may or may not need this coming offseason.

All I have to say there Mac is

[T.Low 1,011]

It's no wonder why sports psychology is such a big business.

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

Wait until the stat mongers wake up. They will show you how we have sucked in the playoffs. Or the Enforcer posts in here.

But i agree. If we play like we did last night there is no team that can beat us period.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

I disagree. This team definitely still needs a shot in the arm. I am still 100% for trying to move Hudler, and also adding a top nine forwards and a top four defenseman..... Which is doable if the cap goes up by $3million.

[Theophany 110]

I disagree. This team definitely still needs a shot in the arm. I am still 100% for trying to move Hudler, and also adding a top nine forwards and a top four defenseman..... Which is doable if the cap goes up by $3million.

Yes, the Wings need something in the offseason, but you're not going to get a forward and a top four defender for $3m.

Maybe the defender alone for ~$3m.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Not to say improvements can't be made, but this team is absolutely capable of winning the cup and skating with any team out there.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I disagree. This team definitely still needs a shot in the arm. I am still 100% for trying to move Hudler, and also adding a top nine forwards and a top four defenseman..... Which is doable if the cap goes up by $3million.

Keep in mind, I say this team "needs" nothing, which is different from saying they shouldn't bring anyone else in.

There's always players that can be added to help the team be even better, especially if the cap goes up. The point of this post is that right now, with the current lineups in the NHL, this Red Wings team needs absolutely nothing to be better than their opponents. When *this* team plays to their ability against any team *currently* in the NHL, they should win.

Now, as far as adding pieces in the offseason, perhaps that didn't come off correctly in my OP, because I certainly want and expect Holland to use up the additional cap space he's given. What I'm saying is that this team has shown they are the most complete team when they play to their ability. My post was more in regards to what this team has shown the ability to do *now.*

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Yes, the Wings need something in the offseason, but you're not going to get a forward and a top four defender for $3m.

Maybe the defender alone for ~$3m.

The wings would obviously have more room than the $3 million dollar cap increase. Moving Hudler would free up space, Modano/Osgood/Draper/Salei have $5.8mil coming off the books as well.

[Theophany 110]

Not to say improvements can't be made, but this team is absolutely capable of winning the cup and skating with any team out there.

You need to add a little "as long as they show up for a full 60 minute game" in there.

But I agree, as long as they play a full game and everyone shows up, they can compete with anyone.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

As to what NFM's point to the entire thread, I completely agree. It sure would be lovely to get a hard hitting defenseman that we all want and probably...need. Either way, this team has that very important factor this year that we haven't seen in quite a while. HUNGER.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Yes, the Wings need something in the offseason, but you're not going to get a forward and a top four defender for $3m.

Maybe the defender alone for ~$3m.

Keep in mind, he also stated Hudler would be moved. That would free up enough space to add the two pieces he mentioned.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Keep in mind, I say this team "needs" nothing, which is different from saying they shouldn't bring anyone else in.

There's always players that can be added to help the team be even better, especially if the cap goes up. The point of this post is that right now, with the current lineups in the NHL, this Red Wings team needs absolutely nothing to be better than their opponents. When *this* team plays to their ability against any team *currently* in the NHL, they should win.

Now, as far as adding pieces in the offseason, perhaps that didn't come off correctly in my OP, because I certainly want and expect Holland to use up the additional cap space he's given. What I'm saying is that this team has shown they are the most complete team when they play to their ability. My post was more in regards to what this team has shown the ability to do *now.*

I guess they still need to show me they can outplay San Jose for more than one game. In my opinion, San Jose has outplayed the Red Wings in five of the six games thus far, with Jimmy Howard standing on his head in pretty much each of them.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I guess they still need to show me they can outplay San Jose for more than one game. In my opinion, San Jose has outplayed the Red Wings in five of the six games thus far, with Jimmy Howard standing on his head in pretty much each of them.

I think the Wings were outplayed in Games 1, 2 & 5, while the Wings outplayed SJ in Games 3, 4 & 6. That being said, Games 1 & 3 were closer than the other 4, with the outplaying team slightly beating out the other. Game 1 was probably more in the Sharks favor than Game 3 was in the Wings favor.

[Theophany 110]

Keep in mind, he also stated Hudler would be moved. That would free up enough space to add the two pieces he mentioned.

Ah, true. Personally I want to see what Hudler can do if he shows up for a full season, but I can understand the desire to see him gone.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Not to say improvements can't be made, but this team is absolutely capable of winning the cup and skating with any team out there.

Pretty much what I am thinking. There are different ways to assemble a championship roster, one way no more right or wrong then the other (i.e. Anaheim winning in 2007 with primarily size), generally speaking, but in most cases regardless if your team is more based on skill or size, the team with the better work ethic most often prevails in a game or the playoffs. Hot goalie factors in obviously but still, you get the idea.

[Bannedforlife 403]

I welcome anyone's thoughts in regards to what this team may or may not need this coming offseason. Keep in mind, I say this team "needs" nothing, which is different from saying they shouldn't bring anyone else in.

The next "greatest defenseman of his generation" would be nice. Other than that, we're good to go!

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

It's been a long time since the Wings have needed anyone to be a contender. I thought the Wings would need to grab a top pairing defender when Nick retired, but Kronwall has come up huge in these playoffs and Babcock has put him into the #1 role (except on the PP) and he's flourished, so even that has allayed my fears a little.

[WingZNut13 99]

Not to say improvements can't be made, but this team is absolutely capable of winning the cup and skating with any team out there.

I think that we need to start looking past this season and next season and look towards the future. I think right now this team can skate with anyone, which they showed us in Game 6, but I think in years to come that we won't be able to maintain that level. I feel the Red Wings' scouts are some of the best in the game and they will find us that next Nick or the next Pavel but we need to make sure the timing is right before we make any long term commitments. I would be all for adding another middle/top tear defensemen for when the Nick has to leave us but I don't think that will be able to happen until he retires and says goodbye to us for good.

[eva unit zero 271]

I disagree. This team definitely still needs a shot in the arm. I am still 100% for trying to move Hudler, and also adding a top nine forwards and a top four defenseman..... Which is doable if the cap goes up by $3million.

My expectation is that the cap will increase by $3m, or about 5%, just as it has the past few seasons. If that occurs, I am hoping the Wings can get Nick under contract around $3m and sign both Joni Pitkanen and Christian Ehrhoff.

A more detailed post

Ah, true. Personally I want to see what Hudler can do if he shows up for a full season, but I can understand the desire to see him gone.

Hudler showed up for the full season in 2008-09. He scored almost 60 points. The problem is he was splitting time between the third and fourth lines. What would have happened if he had been on one of the top two lines? 75? 90?

Edited May 11, 2011 by eva unit zero

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

My expectation is that the cap will increase by $3m, or about 5%, just as it has the past few seasons. If that occurs, I am hoping the Wings can get Nick under contract around $3m and sign both Joni Pitkanen and Christian Ehrhoff.

Aw Jeez, not this s*** again. The guy's likely going to win yet another Norris and you expect him to play for less than half his current salary?

Hudler showed up for the full season in 2008-09. He scored almost 60 points. The problem is he was splitting time between the third and fourth lines. What would have happened if he had been on one of the top two lines? 75? 90?

The top 2 lines would've suffered.

Hudler hasn't engaged since he's been back on the Wings....period. Until he proves he can do that night-in and night-out, not only does he not belong on the top 2 lines, he doesn't deserve it.

[Z and D for the C 712]

The problem is he was splitting time between the third and fourth lines. What would have happened if he had been on one of the top two lines? 75? 90?[/font]

Jesus christ would you stop this s*** already? Saying he split time on the third/fourth lines is just a blatant lie. He spent most of his time on the third line, and probably spent more time with Zetterberg than Draper and Maltby combined. Not to mention he got a ton of PP time, which accounted for just under half of his total points.

http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php?selForward=DETHUDLER%2CJIRI&period=ALL&situation=EV&games=2008-2009%3AR%3A99&Submit=Show+Line+Combinations&sent=go

Edited May 11, 2011 by Z and D for the C

[eva unit zero 271]

Aw Jeez, not this s*** again. The guy's likely going to win yet another Norris and you expect him to play for less than half his current salary?

Here you go. Definition #1.

The top 2 lines would've suffered.

Hudler hasn't engaged since he's been back on the Wings....period. Until he proves he can do that night-in and night-out, not only does he not belong on the top 2 lines, he doesn't deserve it.

I'll refer again to two examples.

1. Hudler scored 12 points in 17 games between Christmas and February 7th

2. Hudler scored 14 points in 11 games while playing with Datsyuk between Feb 7th and Feb 28th, leading the team in scoring over that period.

Explain to me why he SHOULDN'T be on one of the top two lines when, in the only chance he's been given in that role, he lead the team in scoring and scored at a 100-point pace? That's right, you can't. Because a scoring line is where Hudler belongs. Not some kind of half-scoring hybrid where he is the only offensively talented player and is still expected to score. And not on a checking line.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Here you go. Definition #1.

Hoping something wholly unrealistic is not only a waste of time, its pointless. Should I hope Dats re-ups with the Wings when his contract is done for $1 million per? That's as unrealistic as hoping Lids will re-sign for $3 mil.

Here you go. Definition #1.

I'll refer again to two examples.

1. Hudler scored 12 points in 17 games between Christmas and February 7th

2. Hudler scored 14 points in 11 games while playing with Datsyuk between Feb 7th and Feb 28th, leading the team in scoring over that period.

Explain to me why he SHOULDN'T be on one of the top two lines when, in the only chance he's been given in that role, he lead the team in scoring and scored at a 100-point pace? That's right, you can't. Because a scoring line is where Hudler belongs. Not some kind of half-scoring hybrid where he is the only offensively talented player and is still expected to score. And not on a checking line.

Eva, do you really want me to blast you with the same argument so many other members already have regarding small sample sizes. Besides, that was nowhere near the only chance Hudler ever had to shine on the top two lines. He's been there in his past and while sometimes he took advantage of it (while being aided by playing alongside great players) he's also pissed it away with his poor-backchecking and soft play on the puck. Those two things are recipes for disaster when playing on a line with guys like Pav and Z simply because the opposition typically tries to match power for power. When Huds refuses to back-check and allows turnovers due to his soft play, it doesn't take much for the talent on the opposition to put the puck in the net. That's why he's lost Bab's favor, not because he can't play offensively.

Lastly, since you love stats, how about the fact that while he scored those first 12 points, he was only a +1. +7 over the next 14 points is atleast better, but not something to be proud of.