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Majsheppard

Weber Arbitration hearing...

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This part of the article blows my mind.

Unless the term was 15 years or something, they might as well just offered a bag of pucks. It would have been equally insulting.

He's gone from Nashville soon. If I was him I'd be LIVID with Polte.

Edited by IllinoisRedWingsFan

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This part of the article blows my mind.

Unless the term was 15 years or something, they might as well just offered a bag of pucks. It would have been equally insulting.

what's insulting about countering a high ball with a low ball? they were probably trying to get the number somewhere in between but the judge seems to have gone more towards weber's number

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I think Nashville was just trying to get Weber on the cheap, which backfired (still they did save 1 million).

No they didn't. Do you not know how negotiating works? You always start out with a high number so you have room for negotiations. An 8.5 starting point likely means he was hoping for somewhere between around 6-7.5. They are most likely paying more for him with this arbitration verdict than he was even expecting to get through negotiations.

Edited by sleepwalker

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id take him for 8 and under. he is on another level to kronner and stuart. I see them getting up to 5mill but weber is the best young dman in the league and runner up for norris. if u want a lidstrom replacement - this is it.

Definitely a #1 defenseman. But I don't think of him as a Lidstrom replacement. However, he'd probably be the closest the Wings ever get to getting another Konstantinov.

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Definitely a #1 defenseman. But I don't think of him as a Lidstrom replacement. However, he'd probably be the closest the Wings ever get to getting another Konstantinov.

they don't make 'em like that anymore. :(

Vladifan likes this

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id take him for 8 and under. he is on another level to kronner and stuart. I see them getting up to 5mill but weber is the best young dman in the league and runner up for norris. if u want a lidstrom replacement - this is it.

Not really. The jury is still very much out as to if he can perform without Suter at his side. Weber very well may not be nearly as effective without an excellent defensive defenseman as his partner.

There isn't really an extant replacement for Lidstrom. Lidstrom bring everything. Weber does not.

Uncle Danny likes this

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if they were leaning towards a trade who would you offer up? On HF there are preds fans saying that they aren't going for prospects and picks obviously, or a large number of 4th line players. They need some scoring and a replacement Dman. Other teams would offer up nice packages so thats what im interested in.

I'd offer up Franzen, Stuart, Higher Pick for Weber give or take some smaller pieces from both sides (no lebda).

Both these guys are legit players that anyone would want on their team. Stuart is a great replacement for them at about the cap hit they are interested in and franzen is the legit scorer they want. Hudler, Kindl, 2 firsts isn't gonna cut it. With Smith coming up next season and lids probably retiring this leaves our d pretty solid imo.

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what's insulting about countering a high ball with a low ball? they were probably trying to get the number somewhere in between but the judge seems to have gone more towards weber's number

Because $8.5 million was on the high side but considering the market and where the arbitrator landed at, it wasn't that far off the mark. But $4.5 million is grossly under any remotely realistic market value for Weber.

For example, this off season James Wisniewsk signed for $5.5 million. So Wiz signs for $5.5 but $4.75 is anywhere near the mark for Weber? Jack Johnson makes $4.3 million, and the Kings have him signed for 7 more years. Weber is definitely worth more than Johnson, especially if you're only talking about a one or two year contract.

Shea Weber was a friggin Norris candidate, had a great season, and is their franchise player. And they offered him a $250,000 raise.

The point is, the Predators insulted Weber with their counter offer. The only question was if it was an intentional F you or if they're really that stupid.

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if they were leaning towards a trade who would you offer up? On HF there are preds fans saying that they aren't going for prospects and picks obviously, or a large number of 4th line players. They need some scoring and a replacement Dman. Other teams would offer up nice packages so thats what im interested in.

I'd offer up Franzen, Stuart, Higher Pick for Weber give or take some smaller pieces from both sides (no lebda).

Both these guys are legit players that anyone would want on their team. Stuart is a great replacement for them at about the cap hit they are interested in and franzen is the legit scorer they want. Hudler, Kindl, 2 firsts isn't gonna cut it. With Smith coming up next season and lids probably retiring this leaves our d pretty solid imo.

If the Preds want a scoring forward and a replacement (top-four) defenseman, Weber probably isn't going to come to Detroit. But if you build a deal based on those specifications from Red Wing assets, then aside from recently signed players, players over 35, and Dats/Z, the following is what you're looking at:

Scoring forward-

Johan Franzen, Jiri Hudler, or Daniel Cleary

Defenseman-

Niklas Kronwall or Brad Stuart

I don't expect the Wings to trade either of Kronwall or Cleary. Which brings us to a deal involving Brad Stuart and one of Johan Franzen or Jiri Hudler. Hudler is a UFA at season's end, and doesn't have Franzen's resume, which means he carries less value. If the Predators weren't in just as much need of Franzen's finishing abilities as Hudler's playmaking capabilities, I'd call it a reason for Hudler to have more value. But the Franzen/Stuart combination is certainly the most likely in this setting. However, that's two 30+ players for an elite defenseman just hitting his prime; one questions if Nashville would take that deal.

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if they were leaning towards a trade who would you offer up? On HF there are preds fans saying that they aren't going for prospects and picks obviously, or a large number of 4th line players. They need some scoring and a replacement Dman. Other teams would offer up nice packages so thats what im interested in.

I'd offer up Franzen, Stuart, Higher Pick for Weber give or take some smaller pieces from both sides (no lebda).

Both these guys are legit players that anyone would want on their team. Stuart is a great replacement for them at about the cap hit they are interested in and franzen is the legit scorer they want. Hudler, Kindl, 2 firsts isn't gonna cut it. With Smith coming up next season and lids probably retiring this leaves our d pretty solid imo.

Why would they want Stuart when he'll be a UFA next season? Why would we trade an arm and a leg for Weber when he could easily bolt next season?

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Why would they want Stuart when he'll be a UFA next season? Why would we trade an arm and a leg for Weber when he could easily bolt next season?

god i love this argument. u said the same thing about burns when i brought that up and he re-signed before playing a single game. dude, we have the cash to give him the contract he wants. IF we somehow were in a position to land weber i wouldn't be concerned about bolting.

number9 likes this

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god i love this argument. u said the same thing about burns when i brought that up and he re-signed before playing a single game. dude, we have the cash to give him the contract he wants. IF we somehow were in a position to land weber i wouldn't be concerned about bolting.

It is extremely rare to see any player "bolt" from the Wings and about the only players who have are Shanahan, Fedorov and I guess Hudler - and those were all pretty unique situations.

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It is extremely rare to see any player "bolt" from the Wings and about the only players who have are Shanahan, Fedorov and I guess Hudler - and those were all pretty unique situations.

Hossa?

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Hossa?

Maybe - though I always felt it was a Hossa or Franzen thing from the Wings perspective - and Franzen signed sooner.

Totally forgot about LaPointe - he bolted, but his play after Detroit makes it easy to forget.

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Arbitration is based on comparisons to other players in the league at the same level and what they are making, as well as things like age, etc. The highest paid defenseman is Campbell at just over $7m. Lidstrom, Chara, and Boyle are all top-end defensemen in the $6m-$7m range. Weber is the youngest here, and with the most future. However, it will also be a short contract, leading to a higher future salary and potential loss on the UFA market. Meaning that Weber has variables working both for him and against him in a market with constantly rising salaries. His cap hit will likely be somewhere around $7m to $7.5m.

Somewhat correct, somewhat untrue.

Arbritration is more about two parties agreeing than comparing worth to the 'market'. Both sides make proposals w/ potential contracts and first and foremost a decision is made based upon them. Other contracts in the league can ONLY be taken into consideration if one of the parties uses them in conparison.

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It is extremely rare to see any player "bolt" from the Wings and about the only players who have are Shanahan, Fedorov and I guess Hudler - and those were all pretty unique situations.

Bertuzzi? Players will often go elsewhere if they're offered a substantially larger sum.

Edited by Crymson

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Bertuzzi? Players will often go elsewhere if they're offered a substantially larger sum.

I don't think the Wings had that much interest in Bertuzzi nor Schneider after '07... You never heard of much negotiating going on and if they were offered contracts it was more of a "take it or leave" type. Pretty funny how badly Burke overpaid for them, that's for sure.

Motown4013 likes this

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I don't think the Wings had that much interest in Bertuzzi nor Schneider after '07... You never heard of much negotiating going on and if they were offered contracts it was more of a "take it or leave" type. Pretty funny how badly Burke overpaid for them, that's for sure.

They were both offered decent contracts. Anaheim decided to offer them unreasonably large contracts. They left for Anaheim. That's how it often goes. The team that pulls Weber at $9m will have overpaid.

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NHLSourcesSay C.B.

#Predators Ryan Suter receiving plenty of interest around the league, he's high on the #RedWings radar/will pursue if becomes available #NHL

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They were both offered decent contracts. Anaheim decided to offer them unreasonably large contracts. They left for Anaheim. That's how it often goes. The team that pulls Weber at $9m will have overpaid.

When Matt bolted, we got Rafalski and a cup. Plus, every name that is brought up, are old againg veterans, not future HHOF stud DMen.

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When Matt bolted, we got Rafalski and a cup. Plus, every name that is brought up, are old againg veterans, not future HHOF stud DMen.

Hudler was not quite an aging veteran.

As far as 'future HHOF,' we'll see how well Weber does without Suter.

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NHLSourcesSay C.B.

#Predators Ryan Suter receiving plenty of interest around the league, he's high on the #RedWings radar/will pursue if becomes available #NHL

Yes.

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Hudler was not quite an aging veteran.

As far as 'future HHOF,' we'll see how well Weber does without Suter.

If Hudler would have stayed, we would have been in cap hell. Hudler leaving was a good thing for us, it gave us cap space. Also, as you've stated earlier, other players left because they were grossly overpaid following their time with the Wings, the same thing is true for Hudler's case.

I have a feeling Weber will be just fine with or with out Suter.

NHLSourcesSay C.B.

#Predators Ryan Suter receiving plenty of interest around the league, he's high on the #RedWings radar/will pursue if becomes available #NHL

That "source" is worst than Eklund and 0% reliable.

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It is extremely rare to see any player "bolt" from the Wings and about the only players who have are Shanahan, Fedorov and I guess Hudler - and those were all pretty unique situations.

Shanahan left as he was going to see a reduced role the following season after having scored 40 goals. It's a somewhat logical decision on his part.

Fedorov was more or less kicked out. While it's true he left via free agency, he was basically told by the organization putting an offer on the table and then reducing the term before he could actually accept. The Wings basically pulled a "Down low, too slow!" on him. Not cool.

Hudler's situation can't really be called bolting because he signed with a European league during an arbitration process, and the Wings retained his NHL rights and a contract was decided. Hudler's move wasn't far off from Shanahan's; he had just scored 57 points and still wasn't likely to see better than third line ice time soon. While the move didn't work out in his favor, the idea of leaving a bottom-six spot in the NHL to be a star player in the KHL, and then return a year later thrust into the top-six has worked for other players.

Marty Lapointe simply left because he was vastly overpaid by another team.

Tomas Kopecky left a fourth-line role in Detroit for a top-six role on a Cup contender in Chicago.

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Shanahan didn't bolt. He clearly said that he felt he was more associated with Detroit's past and that it was time for Datsyuk and Zetterberg to take over as the leaders of the team. I have no problems with the way he left.

Back on topic, Weber's $7.5 million is the largest arbitration award in hockey history. Wonder what Nashville does with it.

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