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WorkingOvertime

Realignment Not Occuring Next Year

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f*** em.

What needs to be done in a situation like this is, move Winnipeg to the West, move Detroit to the East, and just for s***s, move Columbus to the East and move the Penguins to the Pacific. That’ll teach them. <_<

Move the pens to the AHL

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So they asked to see a sample of what the travel conditions would be like for next year, fair enough, but were basically told "you never get this"... pretty ******* stupid by the NHL if this is true. Also according to TSN the schedule maker had to make the schedule for next year already so it seems like it would be pretty easy to produce the requested information.

Either way this just goes to show the complete and utter lack of communication, trust, and respect between the NHL and NHLPA.

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Can't say I'm surprised. Bettman f***s up something that should be simple. Plus, I'm certain it was Eastern Conference teams bitching about travel. Boo hoo, you can drive to half your games still. This league really disgusts me sometimes.

asoras likes this

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Can't say I'm surprised. Bettman f***s up something that should be simple. Plus, I'm certain it was Eastern Conference teams bitching about travel. Boo hoo, you can drive to half your games still. This league really disgusts me sometimes.

I'd love to see what some of these Eastern Teams that don't travel would say if they were put in a Western team's position for a month.

WizardOfOz30 likes this

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I was hoping in the beginning that the Wings would just be moved over to the East; but saw the proposed realignment as equitable as far as travel was concerned as well as the bonus for all fans to get to see every team during the season.

I’m seriously pissed off right now. The NHLPA can state that there was unfairness in how the realignment was communicated to the NHLPA; but it is more than obvious that the East pushed the vote on this.

Personally, I will not attend another NHL game until there is a fair alignment. f*** the NHLPA and the Eastern Conference. The fans are the lifeblood, so let’s suck it out.

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All I know is, if they lock out and there is no season, I am moving to Europe. I can't deal with losing my hockey.

Extra travel for who? Wings have had to deal with that issue for decades. <_<

I'd get ready to move. I'd say between this and the financials that the owners are going to propose to the players virtually guarantees a lockout next year.

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I didn't like the new realignment anyway, so it doesn't bother me the PA rejected it. The owners liked it because it meant they could raise ticket prices even more, with more out of Conference "elite games".

I'd get ready to move. I'd say between this and the financials that the owners are going to propose to the players virtually guarantees a lockout next year.

I'd like to see the PA crush the Owners this time, so Bettman is out the door. Time for some new blood. America has had 3 Presidents since Bettman took over. Imagine how sick of Clinton we'd be if he was still around?

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Can't say I'm surprised. Bettman f***s up something that should be simple. Plus, I'm certain it was Eastern Conference teams bitching about travel. Boo hoo, you can drive to half your games still. This league really disgusts me sometimes.

Most teams are in the east = a majority of players voting against it. It absolutely upped the travel of those teams, spreading it out more evenly across the league. As it is now, the EC teams travel minimally compared to WC teams, especially those WC teams in the eastern and central time zones.

However, I do agree this might not have been that big of a deal had Bettman and the league approached this with the league instead of appearing to force it down their throats.

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I really hope they realize the league can't survive another lockout. Even drama about the possibility of a lockout would kill the progress the league has made. The NHL won't recover.

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Here's an MLive article on the topic. Devellano is not happy with the union.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/01/red_wings_jimmy_devellano_disg.html

This quote is interesting.

"In order to evaluate the effect on travel of the proposed new structure, we requested a draft or sample 2012-13 schedule, showing travel per team,'' Fehr said in a statement. "We were advised it was not possible for the League to do that. We also suggested reaching an agreement on scheduling conditions to somewhat alleviate Player travel concerns (e.g., the scheduling of more back-to-back games, more difficult and lengthier road trips, number of border crossings, etc.), but the League did not want to enter into such a dialogue.

"The travel estimation data we received from the League indicates that many of the current Pacific and Central teams, that have demanding travel schedules under the current format, could see their travel become even more difficult.

"On the playoff qualification matter, we suggested discussing ways to eliminate the inherent differences in the proposed realignment, but the League was not willing to do so.''

Fehr said the NHLPA is "ready and willing to have further discussions should the league be willing to do so.''

Edited by WorkingOvertime

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Ok, fine, but what do you suggest then NHLPA? Keep Winnipeg in the East and Detroit and Columbus in the West and instead of evening out the travel schedule for all, lets just continue to punish a few teams that travel more than any other team in the league! I am waitng PA, let's see your proposal, if you didn't like the NHL's, then show us yours....simple. Unless you have something better, you are taking away from the fans who I do believe were 99.99999% on board with seeing every team in the league for the first time in a long long time.

I'd like to know who the whiny millionaire players who were concerned about their personal travel were? You play for the fans and the team, the more fans you make happy, the more money you get....cry me a river.

I didn't like the new realignment anyway, so it doesn't bother me the PA rejected it. The owners liked it because it meant they could raise ticket prices even more, with more out of Conference "elite games".

I'd like to see the PA crush the Owners this time, so Bettman is out the door. Time for some new blood. America has had 3 Presidents since Bettman took over. Imagine how sick of Clinton we'd be if he was still around?

Not as sick as if Bush were still around or if Obama gets re-elected...

Also, why doesn't the NHL just do what my place of business did when they had issues with the Union? They just did what they wanted and then dealt with the grievances later (which they won most of the time anyhow) and now I don't have a Union as these acts eventually broke the Union and now they just do what they want...Use the Dave Bing tactics.

Edited by LeftWinger
Hockeytown0001 likes this

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Agree with those who think this is just terrible for the league in general. No news is good news for the NHL as far as I'm concerned and when this is the only thing that will be mentioned hockey wise on a national sports perspective, it looks terrible and may just solidify the league as still behind others when they had the opportunity to become better.

Disagree with those who are solely blaming Bettman. I hate that man just as much as you, but please tell me that others did not have their hand in this. Bettman is to blame but now the PA dropped the ball too.

I forget the guy's name, but isn't the NHLPA president the former one who f'ed the MLB real hard a few years ago?

This just blows.

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Tweet from Mirtle...

Wings' NHLPA rep Nik Kronwall says unfairness of playoff format was a big part of what he didn't like about the proposed realignment.

I have to agree. I think everyone was more caught up in the whole east/west thing and travel, but the playoff format is bs. How can 4 of 7 teams make the playoffs in 2 conferences and 4 of 8 make it in the other 2? There's got to be a better way to do it.

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Tweet from Mirtle...

I have to agree. I think everyone was more caught up in the whole east/west thing and travel, but the playoff format is bs. How can 4 of 7 teams make the playoffs in 2 conferences and 4 of 8 make it in the other 2? There's got to be a better way to do it.

Either add two teams or get rid of two teams, neither of which is gonna happen so they best come up with something better because I for one am tired of not seeing all the teams in the NHL and all the late night games and playoffs I as a fan have to endure...

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Someone, somewhere posted this realignment suggestion which to me and most of the world would make sense, except for Columbus who would be stuck in the West:

Western Conference:

Vancouver

LA

Phoenix

SJ

Anaheim

Edmonton

Calgary

Colorado

Winnipeg

Dallas

Minnesota

Chicago

Nashville

St. Louis

Columbus

Eastern Conference

Detroit

Toronto

Montreal

Ottawa

Buffalo

Philly

NJ

Boston

NYR

NYI

Pittsburgh

Washington

Carolina

Tampa

Florida

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Tweet from Mirtle...

I have to agree. I think everyone was more caught up in the whole east/west thing and travel, but the playoff format is bs. How can 4 of 7 teams make the playoffs in 2 conferences and 4 of 8 make it in the other 2? There's got to be a better way to do it.

Fair enough. So what is this "better way"? Anybody can complain. Let's here solutions.

I think a lot of people are also forgetting a couple of things. With Winnipeg in the Southeast, that means that Florida, Tampa, Washington and Carolina have to travel all the way to Winnipeg again next year 3 TIMES each. Winnipeg also has to travel all the way to Tampa, Florida, Washington and Carolina 3 TIMES EACH.

To not fix that alone is just plain stupid.

Secondly, it's highly unlikely that the Coyotes will be in Phoenix next year since the taxpayers are not going to kick in more money for another year. So when the Coyotes move to Hamilton or Quebec City, they will have to travel all the way from Ontario to the West Coast to play San Jose, LA, and Anaheim as well to Dallas 3 TIMES for each. This is insane. With the proposed realignment, moving a team was much easier.

Good idea. Veto the realignment. DUH!

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Agree with those who think this is just terrible for the league in general. No news is good news for the NHL as far as I'm concerned and when this is the only thing that will be mentioned hockey wise on a national sports perspective, it looks terrible and may just solidify the league as still behind others when they had the opportunity to become better.

Disagree with those who are solely blaming Bettman. I hate that man just as much as you, but please tell me that others did not have their hand in this. Bettman is to blame but now the PA dropped the ball too.

I forget the guy's name, but isn't the NHLPA president the former one who f'ed the MLB real hard a few years ago?

This just blows.

It is definitely not all Bettman's fault. I just wanted to point out that it's not the NHLPA's fault either. The league didn't involve them until very late in the game, so now they're in the position of holding things up. It's just s***ty all around. From day one this should've been a discussion with the owners, league, AND PLAYERS. It's not rocket science to figure out that you need to include the people fans actually pay to go see.

If there is another lockout though, I put almost all the blame on Bettman. Like I said before, his divisive condescending tone makes negotiations hostile from the get go. It'd be nice to have a commissioner who didn't view the players union as the enemy.

Edited by haroldsnepsts
Ram likes this

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Someone, somewhere posted this realignment suggestion which to me and most of the world would make sense, except for Columbus who would be stuck in the West:

Western Conference:

Vancouver

LA

Phoenix

SJ

Anaheim

Edmonton

Calgary

Colorado

Winnipeg

Dallas

Minnesota

Chicago

Nashville

St. Louis

Columbus

Eastern Conference

Detroit

Toronto

Montreal

Ottawa

Buffalo

Philly

NJ

Boston

NYR

NYI

Pittsburgh

Washington

Carolina

Tampa

Florida

Like all proposals, this has faults.

You are splitting Philly and Pittsburgh which was one of the early objections to many of the plans.

What happens when the Coyotes move to an eastern city (Quebec or Hamilton)? The Bettman proposal made it easier to move a team since the "conferences" were already unbalance with 7 or 8 teams,

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<snip>

Also, why doesn't the NHL just do what my place of business did when they had issues with the Union? They just did what they wanted and then dealt with the grievances later (which they won most of the time anyhow) and now I don't have a Union as these acts eventually broke the Union and now they just do what they want...Use the Dave Bing tactics.

It's a very different situation when you're dealing with a union that represents elite entertainers. Hockey is entertainment and fans pay to go see the best in the world play against one another. It's not the same as most other unions where the union employee is much easier to replace with a scab.

There's not a lot of guys out there like Datsyuk, Giroux, Stamkos, Thomas, etc. And I think it's safe to say fans won't pay as much to pay a bunch of AHL or college players, so the business model is affected. The Screen Actors Guild is probably a more appropriate union. Studios sure as hell don't want to pay them as much as they do, but the reality is the big names put people in the seats.

Here's a pretty good take on it, from ESPN of all places.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/7434633/nhlpa-refusal-approve-new-alignment-first-collective-bargaining-salvo

The players' association has always believed the "partnership" that saw the end of the lockout in the summer of 2005 has been on many levels a farce. The players feel they have been excluded in the discussions of important issues, such as relocation and expansion. Moments after the board of governors decided on realignment last month, the players' association insisted publicly it wasn't a done deal, and the NHLPA still needed to sign off on it.

The league pooh-poohed the union's complaints.

While the league believes the union has no right to engage in the discussion on realignment, the players' association, in the absence of a mock schedule that would outline exactly how travel would be affected, has tried to push the realignment issue under the collective bargaining umbrella.

Instead, the league imposed a Friday deadline for the union's consent and the union, which insisted it was willing to keep talking on the issue, pulled the plug.

The union made huge concessions in the new CBA, and it does seem like since then instead of the league treating them like a partner, it's attitude is "you're our ***** now." The thing Bettman apparently forgets is that fans boo his weasel ass every time he's in public. They cheer for the players, not the organization of the NHL.

The bolded section is the key point. Even if the player's union has no legal right to engage in the discussion, as a practical matter and heading into a new CBA it's idiotic not to include the ******* players in talks about realigning their teams!

Edited by haroldsnepsts

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