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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread

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That's interesting because I know shop.nhl.com sells all kinds of merchandise with team logos on the front. I don't recall ever seeing a player that owned a team before.

Good try though.

It goes both ways. So people follow teams, others follow players. For example, somebody might buy Red Wings jersey for the logo on the front, but somebody else for the number 13 and Datsyuk's name on the back.

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That's interesting because I know shop.nhl.com sells all kinds of merchandise with team logos on the front. I don't recall ever seeing a player that owned a team before.

Good try though.

http://shop.nhl.com/...ductId=13239192

p13462605p275w.jpg

http://sports.yahoo....hl-lockout.html

He is an owner. He is a player. He is also a locked-out NHL player, a dues-paying member of a union – the NHL Players' Association – in a labor battle with owners. That creates a unique situation in Kladno, and that gives Jagr a unique perspective on the NHL lockout.

Kevin McGran with the Toronto Star has an article out highlighting the issues in the CBA negotiations that have been agreed upon, close to agreement, and are still under discussion.

I believe most of the issues they've agreed on, or are close to agreement, have been covered here already. But I thought this one was particularly intriguing, and I hadn't seen it mentioned...

The Star has learned that the day free agents can talk to teams is expected to move from July 1 to mid- to late June. Various ideas had been proposed to get the day away from the holiday, including July 10 and Aug. 1. One strong idea has the market opening June 15, or 48 hours after the Stanley Cup is awarded — whichever is later — with no deals finalized until July 1.

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A few tweets about the meetings, which should be underway by now. Too many individual tweets to link to, so I'm just linking to the source...

NHLPA

Players in NYC for CBA bargaining meetings today: Adam Burish, Chris Campoli, Dan Cleary, Mathieu Darche, Ron Hainsey, Shawn Horcoff Kevin Shattenkirk, Andy McDonald, (and) Dan Winnik.

Aaron Ward

In NYC for CBA meetings. Early indication,NHLPA has made a significant move in the direction of the owners.

Bob McKenzie

We're hearing today's NHLPA proposal to NHL will include increasing the NHL's $211M Make Whole provision by another $180M.
We're also hearing the NHLPA proposal will work off a percentage of HRR -- as requested by NHL -- and not a guaranteed dollar amount.
But what those percentages are, and whether the $180M increase in Make Whole acts as a guarantee of sorts, remains to be seen.

Darren Dreger

Players move off guaranteed dollars is a big move in the owners direction. Interested to hear NHL response to PA's ask for more Make Whole $

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Guest Johnz96

Most of my comments have been pointing out the fact that it's not all poo poo head bettmans fault.

Hockey players are innately stupider and greedier than other athletes forcing Bettman to lock them out every time the CBA expires

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Aaron Ward's reporting that the CBA meeting is over for the morning. Fehr's addressing the media currently. The meeting only lasted about an hour. Fehr says the two sides will reconvene at 1pm EST.

Chris Johnston with the Canadian Press...

Donald Fehr says new proposal is "about as good we can do."
Donald Fehr says sides are $182 million apart over the five-year deal.
The NHLPA expects a response from the NHL on the new proposal this afternoon.

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mario-lemieux-picture-1.jpg

Yeah, that's a fairly significant oversight on my part. He voted for the lockout though, so my point is still the same.

It goes both ways. So people follow teams, others follow players. For example, somebody might buy Red Wings jersey for the logo on the front, but somebody else for the number 13 and Datsyuk's name on the back.

That wasn't the point I was making at all.

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Interesting tidbit from Dreger...

Fehr wouldn't confirm he was pushed to change PA's position in proposal, but, told he and hardliners had to be convinced to move.

And Brad Richards sent LeBrun a text, saying...

NYR star B. Richards via text on PA proposal: "It is a move in their direction again and based off of their proposal. There has to an effort from them to get this done now."

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Aaron Ward.

Source,NHLPA proposal took NHL structure,50/50,no guarantee.Only difference,took $211M (make whole) to $393M over 4 yrs.This $393M works out to an added 1.2M per team,per year over 5 yrs of the deal.Player contracting-back diving-provides a measure that determines the added advantage gained if player retires early.Penalizes team going forward based on benefit obtained.No need for term limits or variation.

Bob McKenzie breaks it down in a little simpler terms...

So, to review, NHLPA is prepared to go to 50-50 immediately, but wants $393M over four years as part of so-called "Make Whole." Only system issue addressed is back-diving contracts (cap hit penalties for retired players) but not 5 per cent variance rule or term limits.

Thanks for the updates Jedi. Even though I'm sick of reading about the lockout in general.

Same here. Hoping that the new proposal today paves the way to real negotiations. A deal is so close, get it done boys!

why do the players keep proposing such short cba's? i really don't want to have to deal with this in 5 years. should be at least 10 years

Because 10 years out is far too long for the players and owners to agree to in this economy and under the current NHL economic system. Neither side wants to get screwed if the revenue either increases or decreases dramatically in 4 years, so they won't sign for such a long deal.

And yes, I realize that the NFL just signed a 10 year CBA. But how many times have people said it's not fair to use other leagues as models? The NFL is a money making machine of GARGANTUAN proportions, so both sides there can afford to sign longer term deals.

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nhlpa kept variance and term limits out of their proposal. the nhl is going to want one of those things in the next cba.

i don't really see how punishing teams 5-10 years in the future is going to deter them from signing these long term ridiculous deals to circumvent the cap.

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This sounds fairly legit, though in every instance so far the initial reports tend to make any proposal (by either side) seem a little bit more rosy than they were in actuality.

That's certainly a fair point. However, most of these proposals will have some fairly intricate details that will take awhile to come out. The CBA that just expired was 454 pages long, but the gist of it could be boiled down to about 3 or 4 paragraphs. Most of these proposals can be over-generalized in much the same way.

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Because 10 years out is far too long for the players and owners to agree to in this economy and under the current NHL economic system. Neither side wants to get screwed if the revenue either increases or decreases dramatically in 4 years, so they won't sign for such a long deal.

yes but i think if the nhl wants to get sponsors back, they will want long term security. 5 years is nothing. if i recall, that was one of the sticking points very early on in negotiations. players wanted a short cba and the league wanted a longer term cba.

after the damage this lockout is going to cause to the league, i think it would be in both sides best interest to get long term security and stability for the league. the reason why the league will suffer a decrease in revenue is because of these lockouts.

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That's certainly a fair point. However, most of these proposals will have some fairly intricate details that will take awhile to come out. The CBA that just expired was 454 pages long, but the gist of it could be boiled down to about 3 or 4 paragraphs. Most of these proposals can be over-generalized in much the same way.

I totally agree, that was all I was saying really, is that something which seems good superficially might end up not being acceptable to one side or the other because of an accumulation of all the little details. Let's hope that isn't the case this time. I REALLY need to see some hockey soon.

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yes but i think if the nhl wants to get sponsors back, they will want long term security. 5 years is nothing. if i recall, that was one of the sticking points very early on in negotiations. players wanted a short cba and the league wanted a longer term cba.

after the damage this lockout is going to cause to the league, i think it would be in both sides best interest to get long term security and stability for the league. the reason why the league will suffer a decrease in revenue is because of these lockouts.

Bob McKenzie thinks that the final CBA will probably be no less than 6 years, and most likely 8-10 with an "opt-out" around 6 years.

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Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika

If revenues go down, the players' percentage will go up in the future, under this proposal.

don't think owners will be fond of this

Here's an interesting tidbit from the offer

Chris Nichols@Nichols_NHLPool

Part of #NHLPA proposal is inclusion of a free agency interview period. That, IMO, would be significant benefit to both teams and players.

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Bob McKenzie@TSNBobMcKenzie

I lied. I'm back. Good catch by @KatieStrangESPN on this: In yrs 2 thru 5, players’ share in dollars may not be less than previous yr.

NHL will find this problematic. Goes back towards "guaranteeing" dollars. In a linked-to-revenue system, those guarantees have not existed.

Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika

PA proposal doesn't just hurt owners for a bad year. It hurts them for a GOOD year. If revenues spike one year, it costs them the next.

Do players want a team in Quebec City? Say NHL goes there and revs spike temporarily. Now owners have to keep it up.

If this proposal became CBA, owners might work to smooth out revenues year to year, hurting growth and both sides.

devil is always in the details

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And any sense of optimism quickly dissipating.

Dreger:

Players won't be happy with how the league is responding to proposal. No meaningful give-backs according to PA source."Disappointing day."

Close on rev sharing, but no contract concessions and league remains firm on $211 mil Make Whole. Talks will continue, but may not meet Thur.

There will be a PA conference call tonight. Expected players will unite and dig in based on NHL's response. Need to hear NHL's position now.

Aaron Ward:

Source, major move by NHLPA not well received by NHL. Player conference call later this evening and likely not positive. #TSN

NHLPA feels they've gone as far as coming off the structure of PA proposal and have gone to NHL proposal structure and are nowhere still.

Dan Rosen:

Don Fehr says the NHL did not move off its original stance and said he did not know when the sides would meet again.

Daly to speak shortly (if he isn't already).

I'm sure part of this is posturing but it's still frustrating that the meeting is over so quickly.

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