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Motown4013

Has your opinion of kenny changed?

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As far as I'm concerned, we should have a big bearded thug playing on the 4th line, ahead of either Emmerton or any AHL'ers whose names I can't pronounce.

How many times do I have to tell you, the Wings increasingly anemic powerplay is their enforcer.

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Tatar is better than Emmerton, like others have stated, if it was not a risk to send him to the minors Emmerton would already be there, ala Ritola.

Ritola, btw, career gp43 g4 a5 p9 and as of November 9, 2011 no longer plays in the NHL compared to...

Emmerton career gp73 g7 a4 p14, meaning it takes Emmerton 5.2 game/point vs Ritola 4.7 game/point.

Tootoo is on 3.8 game/point, playing his entire career with Nashville, a team that produced more goals than Detroit 1 time (06-07) in his career.

Goals Det Nash

03-04 255 216

05-06 301 253

06-07* 252 266

07-08 252 227

08-09 289 207

09-10 223 217

10-11 257 213

11-12 239 232

Emmerton makes a good black ace.

Tootoo is a good 4th liner and a top of the league agitator.

Not to mention at all the differences in each others hitting game.

Tootoo gets more ice time than Emmerton. Tootoo had 1013 minutes of ice time last year and Emmerton only had 533, of course Tootoo is going to score more.

That being said Tootoo brings a physical element to the table that Emmerton does not.

Edited by Johnz96

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How many times do I have to tell you, the Wings increasingly anemic powerplay is their enforcer.

Well, there's no telling what our powerplay will look like in 2014.

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Just more of a fan of speed. Give Emmerton Hudlers minutes and linemates, and he will produce.

I actually laughed out loud when I read this. This is a HOCKEY site.....you know that right?

number9 likes this

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Well, there's no telling what our powerplay will look like in 2014.

Actually just look at the ex-Wings that will be available and make lines accordingly.

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Tootoo gets more ice time than Emmerton. Tootoo had 1013 minutes of ice time last year and Emmerton only had 533, of course Tootoo is going to score more.

That being said Tootoo brings a physical element to the table that Emmerton does not.

I'm beyond believing that this isn't a grasp at trolling folks on this board into arguments (which surprisingly is working quite effectively), so my response is geared more towards the individuals who actually believe that points per time on ice is an effective means of comparison between players, and not so much the person I'm quoting, or The Axe. This argument pops up pretty regularly as to why players who play alongside Datsyuk and Zetterberg who score X points/TOI should be replaced by fourth liners who score >X points/TOI.

In short, the whole notion is bulls*** and fails to consider quality of opposition, what style of play the individual is most effective at, and what the team's needs are. Emmerton lacks the skill-set to play against the quality of opposition that Tootoo is often against. Put Emmerton on the third line or second line, and watch the line crumble and everyone's stats suffer as a result. Hudler is also not a 1st line player, despite countless arguments using primarily his points/TOI that have surfaced on this forum. He doesn't have the muscle to be effective in the trenches that you need against top-pairing defensmen. He doesn't have the speed to outmaneuver the opposition's best. Put him on a top line, and again, watch the entire line suffer. I read folks' attempts to use this as a legitimate argument (as opposed to a shameless trolling) so many times each season, and every time it makes me shake my head.

Edited by Echolalia

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I'm beyond believing that this isn't a grasp at trolling folks on this board into arguments (which surprisingly is working quite effectively), so my response is geared more towards the individuals who actually believe that points per time on ice is an effective means of comparison between players, and not so much the person I'm quoting, or The Axe. This argument pops up pretty regularly as to why players who play alongside Datsyuk and Zetterberg who score X points/TOI should be replaced by fourth liners who score >X points/TOI.

In short, the whole notion is bulls*** and fails to consider quality of opposition, what style of play the individual is most effective at, and what the team's needs are. Emmerton lacks the skill-set to play against the quality of opposition that Tootoo is often against. Put Emmerton on the third line or second line, and watch the line crumble and everyone's stats suffer as a result. Hudler is also not a 1st line player, despite countless arguments using primarily his points/TOI that have surfaced on this forum. He doesn't have the muscle to be effective in the trenches that you need against top-pairing defensmen. He doesn't have the speed to outmaneuver the opposition's best. Put him on a top line, and again, watch the entire line suffer. I read folks' attempts to use this as a legitimate argument (as opposed to a shameless trolling) so many times each season, and every time it makes me shake my head.

As opposed to all the OPINIONS you're throwing out there? Gimme a break. Emmerton was a regular out there last year. I'm not saying he's a legit 1st liner. I'm just saying that judging him by his points is stupid because he plays on the 4th line. I judge him by his speed, youth, and durability.

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As opposed to all the OPINIONS you're throwing out there? Gimme a break. Emmerton was a regular out there last year. I'm not saying he's a legit 1st liner. I'm just saying that judging him by his points is stupid because he plays on the 4th line. I judge him by his speed, youth, and durability.

Tootoo's endurance, durability, stamina, cooking skills, and art and crafts expierence make him way better than Cory E

Z Winged Dangler likes this

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As opposed to all the OPINIONS you're throwing out there? Gimme a break. Emmerton was a regular out there last year. I'm not saying he's a legit 1st liner. I'm just saying that judging him by his points is stupid because he plays on the 4th line. I judge him by his speed, youth, and durability.

+ his Jr stats were pretty sick in 05/06 I believe. Not as sick as Lemieux, LaFleur, or LaFontaine though. But pretty sick. ;)

Edited by rick zombo

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+ his Jr stats were pretty sick in 05/06 I believe. Not as sick as Lemieux, LaFleur, or LaFontaine though. But pretty sick. ;)/>

He has performed well at other levels. Im excited to see what he does as he gets used to a bigger role, too.

Tootoo's endurance, durability, stamina, cooking skills, and art and crafts expierence make him way better than Cory E

And his hunting!!!

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He has performed well at other levels. Im excited to see what he does as he gets used to a bigger role, too.

Like the AHL, where he never had a positive season (+/-) or the OHL, where on the top line playing PP and SH he could not make it past 6 games/season in the playoffs, going -2, -4 and -1 in 3 seasons which included him being traded 2 months after being named captain in '07.

I'm excited to see what draft pick we can pull in for him, as it is now, that 5th round pick has a better chance of playing for Detroit than Emmerton.

Andersson, in addition to scoring 50+ points last season with the Griffins (Emmerton never broke 40), is taller, stronger, younger and Swedish.

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Like the AHL, where he never had a positive season (+/-) or the OHL, where on the top line playing PP and SH he could not make it past 6 games/season in the playoffs, going -2, -4 and -1 in 3 seasons which included him being traded 2 months after being named captain in '07.

I'm excited to see what draft pick we can pull in for him, as it is now, that 5th round pick has a better chance of playing for Detroit than Emmerton.

Andersson, in addition to scoring 50+ points last season with the Griffins (Emmerton never broke 40), is taller, stronger, younger and Swedish.

I actually don't think Emmerton is that bad. He's not a better player than Tootoo, but I do agree that he's probably better than he looked on the fourth line. I mean, the kid was drafted as a play maker, not a grinder, and he's not being used in that role. Regardless, he still played 71 games in his rookie season and scored 10 pts. By comparison, Justin Abdelkader didn't play 70+ games until his third season and scored 19 pts. Give Emmerton two more seasons and I think he'd be at least that effective if not more so.

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Emmerton isn't a bad player, but he doesn't fit in our system at the moment. I think everyone can agree to that standard. Like in similar cases, some players just need to be in another system with another franchise, aka Ville Leino. His role just isn't needed within the bottom six because we have an influx of players that can mimic him. He basically just falls too far into the depth charts. In another franchise he could be that perfect 3rd liner, someone that really needs a bottom 6 playmaker. Unfortunately, we do not.

kipwinger likes this

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I actually don't think Emmerton is that bad. He's not a better player than Tootoo, but I do agree that he's probably better than he looked on the fourth line. I mean, the kid was drafted as a play maker, not a grinder, and he's not being used in that role. Regardless, he still played 71 games in his rookie season and scored 10 pts. By comparison, Justin Abdelkader didn't play 70+ games until his third season and scored 19 pts. Give Emmerton two more seasons and I think he'd be at least that effective if not more so.

By comparison, Abdelkader is 1 year older, 1 cup wiser, 1 inch taller, 111 more hits last year and 28 pounds heavier.

Abdelkader's first full season with Detroit was the 70+ game season.

The previous season where he had 6 points in 50 games was split with Grand Rapids, where he had 24 points in 33 games, compared to Emmerton who managed 37 points in 76 games with Grand Rapids that same season.

I like Emmerton, I just don't think he is better than alot of options we have currently and coming up in the system.

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Emmerton isn't a bad player, but he doesn't fit in our system at the moment. I think everyone can agree to that standard. Like in similar cases, some players just need to be in another system with another franchise, aka Ville Leino. His role just isn't needed within the bottom six because we have an influx of players that can mimic him. He basically just falls too far into the depth charts. In another franchise he could be that perfect 3rd liner, someone that really needs a bottom 6 playmaker. Unfortunately, we do not.

Agreed.

Motown4013 likes this

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By comparison, Abdelkader is 1 year older, 1 cup wiser, 1 inch taller, 111 more hits last year and 28 pounds heavier.

Abdelkader's first full season with Detroit was the 70+ game season.

The previous season where he had 6 points in 50 games was split with Grand Rapids, where he had 24 points in 33 games, compared to Emmerton who managed 37 points in 76 games with Grand Rapids that same season.

I like Emmerton, I just don't think he is better than alot of options we have currently and coming up in the system.

I agree that we've got a lot of guys coming up who are more suited, whether in terms of skill level or in terms of role players, than is Emmerton. I was just trying to stick up for the guy because usually when there's some debate about whether X player is better than Y player it usually devolved into just bashing the other guy. I don't think Emmerton is that bad, and certainly not as bad as he's been made out to be in this thread. Still, Tootoo is the better player.

Edited by kipwinger
Wingzman91 likes this

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I actually don't think Emmerton is that bad. He's not a better player than Tootoo, but I do agree that he's probably better than he looked on the fourth line. I mean, the kid was drafted as a play maker, not a grinder, and he's not being used in that role. Regardless, he still played 71 games in his rookie season and scored 10 pts. By comparison, Justin Abdelkader didn't play 70+ games until his third season and scored 19 pts. Give Emmerton two more seasons and I think he'd be at least that effective if not more so.

Exactly. Hes growing as an NHLer. People give up on him too easy.

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We lost Eva, and his man love for Hudler...Now we have you :lol:/>

I havw man love only for Datsyuk. Emmerton is just a good roster guy. Fast, dependable, and cheap.

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Why does cheap matter? It's not like the Red Wings were against the cap and needed roster filler.

More cap room for other guys

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More cap room for other guys

That doesn't exactly make sense though. If the Red Wings don't need to fill roster spots, then they don't need to bring in guys. If you don't need to fill roster spots, especially when your roster is filled upfront, you don't need that cap space for "other guys." All that money really has a purpose for is call-ups in case of injury or something unlikely scenario. You don't really spare cap space in order to stack it with trade value in order to bag some more talent, especially when your roster is full. But that's my 2 cents in reality.

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That doesn't exactly make sense though. If the Red Wings don't need to fill roster spots, then they don't need to bring in guys. If you don't need to fill roster spots, especially when your roster is filled upfront, you don't need that cap space for "other guys." All that money really has a purpose for is call-ups in case of injury or something unlikely scenario. You don't really spare cap space in order to stack it with trade value in order to bag some more talent, especially when your roster is full. But that's my 2 cents in reality.

I got ya on that one is what youre trying to say.

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Why did we ever sign Tootoo?!?!?!? Emmerton is all the grit we need! look at that hammer job! We don't need more fast softies in the bottom-6 like Tootoo, we need grinders, agitators, and fighters like Cory

.

Edited by number9

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