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#41 DSM

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:42 PM

As a Wings fan you should bleed Redden-White.... :hysterical:

 

Anyhow, Kindl is a bust anyhow. I had that feeling from day 1 and he has done nothing to convince me otherwise....should have just drafted Yandle that year, then there would be no debate about how the hell we are going to acquire him.....Holland blew this 1st round pick, as he did also for trading last years #19 pick to Tampa...Holland is a great GM, but even he makes some glaring mistakes....

 

I wouldn't call him a bust or a blown 1st rounder just yet. He's been a serviceable NHL dman and D-men don't usually enter their prime until they hit the late 20's anyway. And on paper he did improve over his first season. He still has some time to prove himself, although the clock is ticking in Detroit I'm sure. I'm betting if he got some more consistent playing time on a rebuilding team, he'd have a season like Quincey did in LA.

 

If you want to talk about busts or blown first rounders, make a thread about Thomas McCollum... :bag:



#42 Crymson

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:55 PM

2 yr, no trade deal?

 

I see you're trying to be funny.



#43 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:34 PM

Redden? 

 

......


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#44 luvmnger

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:44 AM

this is what happens when a good player gets in a bad situation.

 

cleary          didnt produce what the blackhawks expected from his "status"

cheechoo    changed chemistry, production fell, return wasn't worth investment

gomez         inflated value, chemistry/confidence changed...return not worth investment

 

chemistry / confidence

 

screw those up and most humans fold up shop.

 

i would even give yashin, krupp, dipietro a flyer when considering this. ( give me a chance to explain)

 

take osgood for example...put him in the rangers org. on draft day. would he be the same guy?

 

here is a solid goalie, albeit, not top level, but the chemistry, organization, helped him achieve what he is today.

 

rafalski wasnt drafted...spent his young years in europe. no one saw talent until the devils took a "chance"

 

most of us in our day to day lives, if given the chance, could change companies to find the right atmosphere, would see that the company you keep, changes everything.

 

point being, i would give redden a shot. for the price of $1 mil. or less, he would be another low risk , high reward.

 

at $6 mil....forget it pal. good player...not that good.

 

we all do it everyday....best car..lowest price, nice clothes, clearance rack...$.99 value meal

 

well....redden is on the clearance rack...$.99   i'd buy that.


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#45 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:30 AM

This guy is done. Dont need other team's TRASH at any price. Sammy and Tootoo already enough Trash. How many of us want to see Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Andersson, Kindl, Ouelette, etc. develop instead of Bertuzzi, Sammy, Tootoo, Redden, Cleary, etc. suck? The saying is not "out with the new, in with the old". Should Nyquist be bumping Franzen or Helm out of playing time? Hell no. Bertuzzi and Samuelsson? Absolutely. No need for Trash. At any price.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything except the Tootoo part.

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#46 The Axe

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:25 AM

One thing about Osgood- he was a winner no matter where he played. Cant say the Isles and Blues were great when Ozzie was in net for them. He still won.

#47 toby91_ca

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:42 AM

One thing about Osgood- he was a winner no matter where he played. Cant say the Isles and Blues were great when Ozzie was in net for them. He still won.

He won a lot less than he did with the Wings.  He really didn't do much better with those teams than any of the other goalies on the team.  That's why I've always seen Osgood as a guy who benefited a lot from his team.  You can say the same thing about most goalies though.



#48 ogreslayer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:53 PM

He won a lot less than he did with the Wings.  He really didn't do much better with those teams than any of the other goalies on the team.  That's why I've always seen Osgood as a guy who benefited a lot from his team.  You can say the same thing about most goalies though.
Ozzy regualar season stats...

First run w/ Detroit 1993-2001:
GAA=2.40 Sv%=.908 Avg GP/yr=53 (minus the shortened 94-95 season)
Best year 1997-98= 64 GP 33W 20L 11T GAA 2.21 Sv% .913 (Won 1 more game in 98-99 with higher GAA & Sv%)

NYI/StL 2001-2004:
GAA=2.51 Sv%=.905 Avg GP/yr=60
Best year 2003-04 StL= 67GP 31W 25L 8T GAA 2.24 Sv% .91

Second Detroit run 2005-2011:
GAA=2.68 Sv%=.898 Avg GP/yr=29
Best year 2007-08= 43GP 26W 9L 4OTL GAA 2.09 Sv% .914

Looks like fairly consistent numbers performance-wise for Ozzy between his first stint on the Wings to the jump to the Islanders & Blues for a few years when you start to break it down. If anything, the additional workload might account for the slight differences in numbers more than the team in front of him. That's why the whole "The Wings just made Ozzy look good" argument hasn't held much water to me over the years. Was it maybe responsible for a win or two during a given year? Maybe, but from an individual performance standpoint between pre-lockout Detroit Ozzy & pre-lockout NYI/StL Ozzy, there wasn't that big of a difference.

Edited by ogreslayer, 17 January 2013 - 04:58 PM.


#49 Crymson

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:58 PM

this is what happens when a good player gets in a bad situation.

 

cleary          didnt produce what the blackhawks expected from his "status"

cheechoo    changed chemistry, production fell, return wasn't worth investment

gomez         inflated value, chemistry/confidence changed...return not worth investment

 

chemistry / confidence

 

screw those up and most humans fold up shop.

 

i would even give yashin, krupp, dipietro a flyer when considering this. ( give me a chance to explain)

 

take osgood for example...put him in the rangers org. on draft day. would he be the same guy?

 

here is a solid goalie, albeit, not top level, but the chemistry, organization, helped him achieve what he is today.

 

rafalski wasnt drafted...spent his young years in europe. no one saw talent until the devils took a "chance"

 

most of us in our day to day lives, if given the chance, could change companies to find the right atmosphere, would see that the company you keep, changes everything.

 

point being, i would give redden a shot. for the price of $1 mil. or less, he would be another low risk , high reward.

 

at $6 mil....forget it pal. good player...not that good.

 

we all do it everyday....best car..lowest price, nice clothes, clearance rack...$.99 value meal

 

well....redden is on the clearance rack...$.99   i'd buy that.

 

None of the players you listed are applicable to your point. Cleary was young. Cheechoo had hernia surgery. Gomez went to crap, and he's one-dimensional and so had nothing to offer. Rafalski was young when he broke into the league. Osgood's stats stayed relatively constant across teams. And so on. Redden? He's a washed-up, past-his-prime player. He was very good five years ago, but now he can't even maintain a top-pairing spot on an AHL team. He was known for his offense, but he can no longer produce even at the minor-league level.

 

No thanks.



#50 ogreslayer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:01 PM

And it really doesn't matter now. Wings won't pursue Redden per Helene St. James:

http://www.freep.com...troit Red Wings

Edited by ogreslayer, 17 January 2013 - 05:01 PM.


#51 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:09 PM

Multiple teams considering options on both. LA, STL, TOR, FLA among those kicking tires on Redden, ANA and CAR among those considering Gomez                    



#52 Jedi

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:15 PM

Bob McKenzie says that Redden's going West, and that most of the speculation is centered around St. Louis...

 

Eastern Conference team interested in UFA Wade Redden was told he's going to West. All the speculation is on STL. Decision expected soon.

 

LAK were another Western team interested in Redden as well.


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#53 kipwinger

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:23 PM

He won a lot less than he did with the Wings.  He really didn't do much better with those teams than any of the other goalies on the team.  That's why I've always seen Osgood as a guy who benefited a lot from his team.  You can say the same thing about most goalies though.

 

No he didn't.  In two of the three seasons he was with another team he had over 30 wins.  In the other he had 21 (so one bad season, although he was traded in the middle of it, which screws with a goalie).  Additionally, his goals against, and save percentage were either as good, or better, than most of his years with the Wings. 

 

Another misrepresented "fact" which unfairly diminishes just how good Ossie really was. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#54 Jedi

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:25 PM

And it's official.  St. Louis, per the Blues' official Twitter feed.
 

The Blues have agreed to a deal in principle with defenseman Wade Redden. http://bit.ly/11EIqDW

 

 

And McKenzie provides some details...

 

Well, there it is. Wade Redden a STL Blue. Hearing 1 year deal, $800K base salary with GP bonuses that could make it $1M total.

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#55 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:26 PM

The Blues have agreed to a deal in principle with defenseman Wade Redden. http://bit.ly/11EIqDW  #stlblues

Retweeted by Bob McKenzie
 
 
Drat! Jedi beat me to it!


#56 kipwinger

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:28 PM

Wade Redden signed and Colin White on a tryout?  Why wasn't I invited to St. Louis' throwback party?


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#57 puckbags

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:31 PM

Low risk deal for a guy who will play on their 3rd d pair.  I would have given him that kind of money for sure.


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#58 Jedi

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:33 PM

Drat! Jedi beat me to it!

Must be faster, grasshopper!
 
Low risk deal for a guy who will play on their 3rd d pair.  I would have given him that kind of money for sure.
 
Low risk deal, for sure.  That said, I don't think we needed the 3 way logjam at the 6/7 D spot that Redden would have created.

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#59 toby91_ca

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:46 PM

Ozzy regualar season stats...

First run w/ Detroit 1993-2001:
GAA=2.40 Sv%=.908 Avg GP/yr=53 (minus the shortened 94-95 season)
Best year 1997-98= 64 GP 33W 20L 11T GAA 2.21 Sv% .913 (Won 1 more game in 98-99 with higher GAA & Sv%)

NYI/StL 2001-2004:
GAA=2.51 Sv%=.905 Avg GP/yr=60
Best year 2003-04 StL= 67GP 31W 25L 8T GAA 2.24 Sv% .91

Second Detroit run 2005-2011:
GAA=2.68 Sv%=.898 Avg GP/yr=29
Best year 2007-08= 43GP 26W 9L 4OTL GAA 2.09 Sv% .914

Looks like fairly consistent numbers performance-wise for Ozzy between his first stint on the Wings to the jump to the Islanders & Blues for a few years when you start to break it down. If anything, the additional workload might account for the slight differences in numbers more than the team in front of him. That's why the whole "The Wings just made Ozzy look good" argument hasn't held much water to me over the years. Was it maybe responsible for a win or two during a given year? Maybe, but from an individual performance standpoint between pre-lockout Detroit Ozzy & pre-lockout NYI/StL Ozzy, there wasn't that big of a difference.

Record with DET - 317-149-75 - .655 win%

Record with others - 84-67-20 - .550 win%

 

My argument has never been with the Wings making him "look good" my argument has always been with people that look at his all-time wins being over 400 and suggesting he must have been one of the best.  I don't think there were many people out there that thought he was one of the best in the league throughout the years, but now you look and all the wins just seemed to add up.  I'm not sure how you can't assume a lot of that isn't due to the team he played for.  It's not like they had a drop-off without him.

 

The other thing I looked at (very high level) was that the other goalies on the other teams he played with did not have signficantly different records than him.



#60 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:48 PM

Dunno if I really care but I say good for St. Louis!! Not to be an ass but hopefully he weakens their D!!







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