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Healthy starters the problem, Not young replacements


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#1 b.shanafan14

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:41 AM

I've been saying it since the season started, that as much of a patchwork lineup the Wings are icing these days, logic would dictate that their weakness lies in the young call-ups from Grand Rapids. Unfortunately, the consistent issue has been the play of our healthy starters. The play of guys like Lashoff and Tatar has been super consistent compared to White, Quincey, and Cleary. In fact, today's game recap article from MLive says it all:

 

"Veteran mistakes negate youthful spark Red Wings received, as surging Ducks skate away with 5-2 win"

 

The Wings are injured as much as I've ever seen them, and the guys that they are missing have left some serious holes in both scoring and defense, but their biggest problem every night is not the guys they are missing, or their young replacements, but they guys that would be in the lineup for better or worse, injuries or no. Its hard to say we lost because we were missing Datsyuk, Franzen, and Bertuzzi, when the two scorers from last night were young call-ups, Tatar has more points than Miller, White, Eaves, and Emmerton, and Andersson has more points than Abdelkader, Cleary, and Quincey.

 

The positive, this team has some great young players in the system that are hungry and ready for a chance. The negative, this team is spending too much cap-space on scrubs like Quincey, White, and Cleary to give those kids a shot with a lineup healthy enough for them to make a difference.



#2 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:47 AM

Honestly, after last night it's really hard to disagree with you on this.  The kids from GR are alright.


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#3 Red Crazy

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:13 AM

Agree. I think Kenny Holland needs to make some moves when we get healthy and make some room for these young guys on the roster. I am very impressed with Tatar.



#4 Richdg

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:46 AM

Hmmm.... So because our old guys are hurt-who hired them? We lost. Not because of the "great" young talent from GR. odd. we just played a game with all of our talent from GR and got smoked. Some have been beging for the young guys to come up and play more, and the old broken down to play less. well you are getting what you asked for. not pretty at all. This will ghet worse before it gets better. A lot worse. I hope some player changes are made very soon!



#5 amato

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:50 AM

Kronwall needs to step his game up. He's a big part of all our "veteran mistakes." Seems like at least a couple times a game he has a bad giveaway or takes a stupid penalty.. I'm not saying he's bad or anything, I like kronner as much anyone.. But he's been one of the biggest disappointments so far this season

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#6 b.shanafan14

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:00 AM

Hmmm.... So because our old guys are hurt-who hired them? We lost. Not because of the "great" young talent from GR. odd. we just played a game with all of our talent from GR and got smoked. Some have been beging for the young guys to come up and play more, and the old broken down to play less. well you are getting what you asked for. not pretty at all. This will ghet worse before it gets better. A lot worse. I hope some player changes are made very soon!

 

The point wasn't that the GR kids are killing it and should all be brought up, nor was it that the injured players shouldn't have been signed. The point was that as bad as injuries have been this season, its the starters that aren't injured, veteran guys who we are paying substantial buck and giving substantial ice time that are the biggest problem. In other words, games like last night don't end in "damn, those GR kids aren't ready" or "I wish so-and-so wasn't injured", it ended in monstrous turn overs from guys like White, Kronwall, and Quincey, and uninspired play from Cleary and others.

 

Injuries (while definitely having an impact) and scabs aren't the most glaring problem, players that aren't injured and would still be in a healthy lineup are.



#7 evilmrt

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:03 AM

The problem is that Kenny and Babs both seem to be having a difficult time adapting to the "new" Wings reality. Holland takes most of the blame here, because he couldn't make the big signings, and so should have been playing "moneypuck" to ensure that he signed vets that would play well with GR kids, and traded away those pieces that didn't fit anymore. He didn't. 

 

Babs on the other hand....still coaching like its last year. He's a great coach, but he's been slow to adapt in some ways so far. Cleary is a great example. Special teams are af****** embarrassment. 



In other words, games like last night don't end in "damn, those GR kids aren't ready" or "I wish so-and-so wasn't injured", it ended in monstrous turn overs from guys like White, Kronwall, and Quincey, and uninspired play from Cleary and others.

 

You just hit the nail on the head. Kenny and Babs keep expecting all the guys you just called out to step up and lead the GR kids, and they aren't. At some point they will have to stop trying the same thing over and over and shake things up. 



#8 Euro_Twins

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:07 AM

Hmmm.... So because our old guys are hurt-who hired them? We lost. Not because of the "great" young talent from GR. odd. we just played a game with all of our talent from GR and got smoked. Some have been beging for the young guys to come up and play more, and the old broken down to play less. well you are getting what you asked for. not pretty at all. This will ghet worse before it gets better. A lot worse. I hope some player changes are made very soon!

 

You realize that we lost the game because of our vets right. Not only can they not score, guys like white, cleary , quincey, and kronner are coughing the puck up way too much. Go back and watch the goals anaheim scored, they were all direct results of our vets making a bad play, notthe rookies



#9 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:29 AM

Hmmm.... So because our old guys are hurt-who hired them? We lost. Not because of the "great" young talent from GR. odd. we just played a game with all of our talent from GR and got smoked. Some have been beging for the young guys to come up and play more, and the old broken down to play less. well you are getting what you asked for. not pretty at all. This will ghet worse before it gets better. A lot worse. I hope some player changes are made very soon!

 

This is really just a poorly worded response that doesn't seem to have a point or go anywhere.....

 

Thank you Dan Cleary for all of those clutch playoff goals you have provided in the past, but injuries have caught up with you. You can't skate and you never get an opportunity to shoot.

 

Here is a positive: Cleary/Bert/White all have expiring contracts



#10 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:55 AM

Hmmm.... So because our old guys are hurt-who hired them? We lost. Not because of the "great" young talent from GR. odd. we just played a game with all of our talent from GR and got smoked. Some have been beging for the young guys to come up and play more, and the old broken down to play less. well you are getting what you asked for. not pretty at all. This will ghet worse before it gets better. A lot worse. I hope some player changes are made very soon!

The talent from GR kept us in the game until the 3rd.  Last nights loss rests mostly on Kronwall (sad to say) and White.  They were both as I've heard here before, "hot garbage".  You can't win games when your #1 Dman is playing like he's trying to impress the world and be Nick Sr and failing epically at it.  It was also stated that Kronwall should stick to being Kronwall and that he should play like when Lids was here and just go about his business.  How many Kronwallings have we seen this year?  

 

This is really just a poorly worded response that doesn't seem to have a point or go anywhere.....

 

Thank you Dan Cleary for all of those clutch playoff goals you have provided in the past, but injuries have caught up with you. You can't skate and you never get an opportunity to shoot.

 

Here is a positive: Cleary/Bert/White all have expiring contracts

And thank god for that.  Not so much on Tuzzi cause he's been really good for us the past couple years and he's a warrior, but I think for his sake, he might want to hang em up once his contract expires.  I always respected Rafalski for knowing when to quit, as well as Brett Hull for doing the same and being honest and just saying he couldn't keep up with the kids anymore.  Those 3 expiring also clears up full time roster spots for Lashoff, Tatar and Nyquist.  I was also very impressed with Andersson and was ecstatic to see him get his first goal.  That's what hard work gets you and I told my dad last year when he got called up that he was a hard worker that can forcheck and he's got good positioning, and that's what got his his 1st career goal.


"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#11 amato

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:55 AM

 
This is really just a poorly worded response that doesn't seem to have a point or go anywhere.....
 
Thank you Dan Cleary for all of those clutch playoff goals you have provided in the past, but injuries have caught up with you. You can't skate and you never get an opportunity to shoot.
 
Here is a positive: Cleary/Bert/White all have expiring contracts


I'm pretty sure Bert's still signed thru next season.

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#12 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:59 AM

You realize that we lost the game because of our vets right. Not only can they not score, guys like white, cleary , quincey, and kronner are coughing the puck up way too much. Go back and watch the goals anaheim scored, they were all direct results of our vets making a bad play, notthe rookies

If not for those horrific cough ups, the momentum probably  stays on the Wings' side and we've got 8 wins, not 7.  Tatar and Andersson were excellent.  And anyone who blames Howard for the loss, once again, just watch the giveaways on the game tape.  Pathetic job from our veteran D last night.



I'm pretty sure Bert's still signed thru next season.

Ya he is, but he may as someone stated with the 35+ contract, stay on the LTIR if his back never seems to get better and retire after his contract ends a la Lapierre.


"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#13 amato

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:03 PM

If not for those horrific cough ups, the momentum probably  stays on the Wings' side and we've got 8 wins, not 7.  Tatar and Andersson were excellent.  And anyone who blames Howard for the loss, once again, just watch the giveaways on the game tape.  Pathetic job from our veteran D last night.


Ya he is, but he may as someone stated with the 35+ contract, stay on the LTIR if his back never seems to get better and retire after his contract ends a la Lapierre.


Ah gotcha.. Yea I could see that. I hope he gets better tho, I like Bert. Sure he's getting older and all that but for what we pay him, he's well worth it.

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#14 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:18 PM

Ah gotcha.. Yea I could see that. I hope he gets better tho, I like Bert. Sure he's getting older and all that but for what we pay him, he's well worth it.

Me too.  Tuzzi has been awesome.  s***, his first game back after missing the start of the year he had what? 2 goals?  I also love his nasty shootout goals and then the expression on his face of a kid trying to hide that he just did something bad.  Good times.


"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#15 amato

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:16 PM

Me too.  Tuzzi has been awesome.  s***, his first game back after missing the start of the year he had what? 2 goals?  I also love his nasty shootout goals and then the expression on his face of a kid trying to hide that he just did something bad.  Good times.


Todd "saucy hands" Bertuzzi.

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#16 The Axe

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:20 PM

The problem is that Kenny and Babs both seem to be having a difficult time adapting to the "new" Wings reality. Holland takes most of the blame here, because he couldn't make the big signings, and so should have been playing "moneypuck" to ensure that he signed vets that would play well with GR kids, and traded away those pieces that didn't fit anymore. He didn't. 
 
Babs on the other hand....still coaching like its last year. He's a great coach, but he's been slow to adapt in some ways so far. Cleary is a great example. Special teams are af****** embarrassment. 


 
You just hit the nail on the head. Kenny and Babs keep expecting all the guys you just called out to step up and lead the GR kids, and they aren't. At some point they will have to stop trying the same thing over and over and shake things up. 



These are my sentiments. Holland needed to go after Suter and Parise with an open checkbook. 9 mil per for both sound ridiculous? Well, we are almost paying 20 mil to a bunch of guys we get little return out of anyways.

Quincey = 3.7 mil
Bertuzzi = 1.75 mil
Sammy = 3 mil
Monster = 1.75 mil
Cleary = 2 mil
Tootoo = 1.8 mil
Colo = 2 mil
Huskins = .75 mil
White = 1.75 mil

Thats 18.5 mil.

Oh you screwed us, Axe. We are over the cap now.

Wrong.

This assumes we could play a sane Ken Holland from the Bertuzzi signing forward.

I trade Filppula, Kronwall, and Franzen for Cory Perry and sign Perry to 9 mil per.

Parise (9) - Dats (6.75) - Perry (9)
Zetterberg (6.25) - Helm (3) - Brunner (2)
Tartar (1) - Andersson (1) - Nyquist (1)
Sheahan (.75) - Emmerton (1) - Ferarro (.75)

Jarnkrok (.75) - Next GR guy (.75)

Suter (9) - Ericsson (3)
Smith (2) - Lashoff (1)
Sproul (.75) - Ouelette (.75)

Huskins (.75)

Mrazek (1)
McCollum (.75)

62 mil.

#17 canadian wings fan

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:21 PM

Berts a great lockeroom guy to. Lets all hope he gets healthy soon



#18 mjtm77

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:29 PM

These are my sentiments. Holland needed to go after Suter and Parise with an open checkbook. 9 mil per for both sound ridiculous? Well, we are almost paying 20 mil to a bunch of guys we get little return out of anyways.

Quincey = 3.7 mil
Bertuzzi = 1.75 mil
Sammy = 3 mil
Monster = 1.75 mil
Cleary = 2 mil
Tootoo = 1.8 mil
Colo = 2 mil
Huskins = .75 mil
White = 1.75 mil

Thats 18.5 mil.

Oh you screwed us, Axe. We are over the cap now.

Wrong.

This assumes we could play a sane Ken Holland from the Bertuzzi signing forward.

I trade Filppula, Kronwall, and Franzen for Cory Perry and sign Perry to 9 mil per.

Parise (9) - Dats (6.75) - Perry (9)
Zetterberg (6.25) - Helm (3) - Brunner (2)
Tartar (1) - Andersson (1) - Nyquist (1)
Sheahan (.75) - Emmerton (1) - Ferarro (.75)

Jarnkrok (.75) - Next GR guy (.75)

Suter (9) - Ericsson (3)
Smith (2) - Lashoff (1)
Sproul (.75) - Ouelette (.75)

Huskins (.75)

Mrazek (1)
McCollum (.75)

62 mil.

are you on crack?


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#19 The Axe

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:31 PM

are you on crack?


What dont you like?

#20 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:31 PM

These are my sentiments. Holland needed to go after Suter and Parise with an open checkbook. 9 mil per for both sound ridiculous? Well, we are almost paying 20 mil to a bunch of guys we get little return out of anyways.

Quincey = 3.7 mil
Bertuzzi = 1.75 mil
Sammy = 3 mil
Monster = 1.75 mil
Cleary = 2 mil
Tootoo = 1.8 mil
Colo = 2 mil
Huskins = .75 mil
White = 1.75 mil

Thats 18.5 mil.

Oh you screwed us, Axe. We are over the cap now.

Wrong.

This assumes we could play a sane Ken Holland from the Bertuzzi signing forward.

I trade Filppula, Kronwall, and Franzen for Cory Perry and sign Perry to 9 mil per.

Parise (9) - Dats (6.75) - Perry (9)
Zetterberg (6.25) - Helm (3) - Brunner (2)
Tartar (1) - Andersson (1) - Nyquist (1)
Sheahan (.75) - Emmerton (1) - Ferarro (.75)

Jarnkrok (.75) - Next GR guy (.75)

Suter (9) - Ericsson (3)
Smith (2) - Lashoff (1)
Sproul (.75) - Ouelette (.75)

Huskins (.75)

Mrazek (1)
McCollum (.75)

62 mil.

What happens when the kids want raises?  Throw them away?  Perry, Parise and Suter are not worth 9 mil per.  None of them.  Parise and Perry 7 max and Suter 5.5 max.  Especially with the cap going down.  There's a reason that Minnesota has no depth and that's cause anyone on their team with skill makes 6-7.5 mil per and they signed a fresh off the boat rookie to 3.25 mil.  their GM wears clown shoes and his team sucks ass.


"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.






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