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Brunner Equals Clutch/Work on Signing *merged

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Keep in mind that the Wings are really playing with house money on Brunner - gave up nothing to get him, and only a $1.35 mil cap hit in a one-year deal, and a year where we had cap room to spare. He'll be 27 in March, so he's no kid. He's a seasoned professional, and Babcock has shown that confidence in him by putting him on that left point of the PP unit from day one.

I just hope that the Wings' early PP issues don't get blamed on Brunner, who actually has looked pretty good on that unit. He either doesn't have (or doesn't use) the huge slapshot from the point, but Sammy's shot from the point isn't great and I trust him far less with the puck. That wrister that Brunner scored on Minnesota shows an example of what he can do, and he plays a shallow point, almost lurking off on the boards. Even in his first few games, he's shown the confidence to walk that puck into the crease, and I don't see him getting bounced around much. Heck, Datsyuk used to get routinely MURDERED along the boards when he was rookie, and now he's just as likely to throw a shoulder back.

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People keep saying Brunner needs defence blah blah blah. He was not brought in to be a two way forward like Datsyuk, we have enough of those, he was brought in to be a straight up scorer, and that is what babs expects from him. Sure he could work on his defensive game a bit too, but he is still better defensively than Franzen, and works his tail off night in and night out, and thats all I want is for him to work hard and put some pucks in the net. So far so good.

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People keep saying Brunner needs defence blah blah blah. He was not brought in to be a two way forward like Datsyuk, we have enough of those, he was brought in to be a straight up scorer, and that is what babs expects from him. Sure he could work on his defensive game a bit too, but he is still better defensively than Franzen, and works his tail off night in and night out, and thats all I want is for him to work hard and put some pucks in the net. So far so good.

I don't think we have really any great two way forwards besides Dats and Zetterberg. And Z and Dats might be our only two way forwards the more I think about it. Yeah cause if you can only score it doesn't matter if you can play defense then? Brunner was brought here to put the puck in the net at a reasonable price without a doubt. Early yes still but would like too see him be better in our own zone. Last game at Chicago I thought he was better.

I do like how Brunner attacks the net. Not bad for a poor man's Briere lol

Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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I don't think we have really any great two way forwards besides Dats and Zetterberg. Yeah cause if you can only score it doesn't matter if you can play defense then? Brunner was brought here to put the puck in the net at a reasonable price without a doubt. Early yes still but would like too see him be better in our own zone. Last game at Chicago I thought he was better.

I do like how Brunner attacks the net. Not bad for a poor man's Briere lol

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Bert, Filppula, Helm, and most of our bottom 6 are pretty solid defensively (no one is playing great this season yet)

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Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Bert, Filppula, Helm, and most of our bottom 6 are pretty solid defensively (no one is playing great this season yet)

Filppula maybe after last year. Bert, no. Helm (love him to death) but no. Our bottom six are pretty good defensively I agree. But the problem is they can't score.

Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Filppula maybe after last year. Bert, no. Helm (love him to death) but no. Our bottom six are pretty good defensively I agree. But the problem is they can't score.

Are you joking? Helm is our best penalty killer, and he is good defensively, maybe not top 10 in the league but certainly better than most

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Are you joking? Helm is our best penalty killer, and he is good defensively, maybe not top 10 in the league but certainly better than most

Am I joking about what? Helm is our best bottom six guy and duh penalty killer too. Calling him a great two forward isn't really accurate. He can't finish. He's better defensively than offensively. Bert is the opposite. Hence when I quoted you, you said we have plenty of two way forwards on this team. I disagree with you on that. Opinion of course.

Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Are you joking? Helm is our best penalty killer, and he is good defensively, maybe not top 10 in the league but certainly better than most

I'd have to think he meant there is no "O" in "Helm", therefore can be seen as a one way forward; D only.

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Am I joking about what? Helm is our best bottom six guy and duh penalty killer too. Calling him a great two forward isn't really accurate. He can't finish. He's better defensively than offensively. Bert is the opposite. Hence when I quoted you, you said we have plenty of two way forwards on this team. I disagree with you on that. Opinion of course.

I never said he was a 2 way forward, if you read my comment that you quoted the guys I mentioned I said were solid defensively, you said 2 way forward

EDIT: I think we are arguing the same point, I just saw you wrote our bottom 6 is good defensively but can't score lol, which was basically what I was saying too. Miller put up 14 goals last year, Eaves is good for 10-15 goals thats not bad for bottom 6 guys.

Edited by Euro_Twins

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People keep saying Brunner needs defence blah blah blah. He was not brought in to be a two way forward like Datsyuk, we have enough of those, he was brought in to be a straight up scorer, and that is what babs expects from him. Sure he could work on his defensive game a bit too, but he is still better defensively than Franzen, and works his tail off night in and night out, and thats all I want is for him to work hard and put some pucks in the net. So far so good.

He needs to be better, especially when you consider how many games go into OT which, at 4 on 4, puts much more importance on defensive responsibility. On Leddy's OT goal, Brunner looked only slightly better than Lion's kicker Janson Hanson trying to tackle Devon Hester as the last defender on a kick return.

Yes, Brunner's head was on a swivel, and was aware of Leddy trailing the play, but then didn't seem to know what to do. He let himself be drawn towards the puck carrier (Toews) even though Kronner was already marking him. That took him out of position to make any real play on the trailer Leddy and badda bing badda boom, game over. I don't want to sound arrogant, but let's face it, that's just basic defense.

I like that I see him hustling and working hard, but at the same time, there is a lot of room for impovement. I've yet to see him put his head down and sprint all out on a back check, a la Marian Hossa.

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He needs to be better, especially when you consider how many games go into OT which, at 4 on 4, puts much more importance on defensive responsibility. On Leddy's OT goal, Brunner looked only slightly better than Lion's kicker Janson Hanson trying to tackle Devon Hester as the last defender on a kick return.

Yes, Brunner's head was on a swivel, and was aware of Leddy trailing the play, but then didn't seem to know what to do. He let himself be drawn towards the puck carrier (Toews) even though Kronner was already marking him. That took him out of position to make any real play on the trailer Leddy and badda bing badda boom, game over. I don't want to sound arrogant, but let's face it, that's just basic defense.

I like that I see him hustling and working hard, but at the same time, there is a lot of room for impovement. I've yet to see him put his head down and sprint all out on a back check, a la Marian Hossa.

Like I said he definitely can work on his defense, he is already better than Franzen at it. It will come, he is new to the NA game, give him some time and he will be ok defensively, but he was brought in to be a sniper, not an elite two way forward like Hossa or Datsyuk, he is a work horse that wants very badly to score all the time, and Datsyuk will help him become better on his 2-way game, but I like that he is a bit selfish with the puck and just wants to go score, we need that

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I never said he was a 2 way forward, if you read my comment that you quoted the guys I mentioned I said were solid defensively, you said 2 way forward

EDIT: I think we are arguing the same point, I just saw you wrote our bottom 6 is good defensively but can't score lol, which was basically what I was saying too. Miller put up 14 goals last year, Eaves is good for 10-15 goals thats not bad for bottom 6 guys.

Fair enough. Back on topic with Brunner still like him regardless of his defensive play. How many goals you think Brunner scores for us this season?

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Am I joking about what? Helm is our best bottom six guy and duh penalty killer too. Calling him a great two forward isn't really accurate. He can't finish. He's better defensively than offensively. Bert is the opposite. Hence when I quoted you, you said we have plenty of two way forwards on this team. I disagree with you on that. Opinion of course.

Agree with you about Helmer, of course.

Disagree with you about Bertuzzi. Totally.

Bert is a smart forechecker, gives a lot of effort to get that big slow(ish) body back on the backchecks, has great stick work, can see plays before they develop which allows him to get into passing lanes, can lay the body and play the body, and can shut down. Even Babs has talked about how Berts defensive game is truely great, having totally morphed since coming to Detroit. Not to mention that with his years of experince in the league, he's seen a lot of everyone in the league and knows everyone's strenghts and weaknesses and tendencies.

It's a Brunner thread, so I'm going to refrain from getting into how underrated and under valued Bert is by so many o LGW.

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...with Brunner still like him regardless of his defensive play.

Suffice it to say, we all agree with that statement, and we are all totally psyched to have a shoot first, ask questions later forward, like Euro Twin said. Defense can be taught, but the nose for the net Brunner has is a natural mindset.

We're just nitpicking the degree of D we want him to have at this point in time.

Edit: To be fair, since I'm saying he lacks the D that Hossa has, he seems to get in better Offensive positions than Hossa did and has a much better shot selection and seems to better a much better passer for a "shoot first sniper". As much as I like Hossa, he had these tendencies to just throw the puck at the net as soon as he got it no matter where he was. He'd be at the frikin blue line with his back to the net and two guys on him and he'd chuck it at the net without even looking for an open teammate. Not like once in a while either, but way too often.

Edited by T.Low

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Suffice it to say, we agree with that statement, and we are all totally psyched to have a shoot first, ask questions later forward, too, like Euro Twin said. Defense can be taught, but the nose for the net he has is natural mindset.

Well said friends I agree with you 100%.

I keep waiting for that break out game "hopefully" Brunner has. 2 goals 2 assist type of night :P

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Fair enough. Back on topic with Brunner still like him regardless of his defensive play. How many goals you think Brunner scores for us this season?

This season is hard to say as he is still adjusting, but i wouls say around 15-20

next year however he could easily be 30+

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People keep saying Brunner needs defence blah blah blah. He was not brought in to be a two way forward like Datsyuk, we have enough of those, he was brought in to be a straight up scorer, and that is what babs expects from him. Sure he could work on his defensive game a bit too, but he is still better defensively than Franzen, and works his tail off night in and night out, and thats all I want is for him to work hard and put some pucks in the net. So far so good.

I never say that. I just dont think hes the offensive dynamo everyone is making him out to be. We will see.

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He needs to be better, especially when you consider how many games go into OT which, at 4 on 4, puts much more importance on defensive responsibility. On Leddy's OT goal, Brunner looked only slightly better than Lion's kicker Janson Hanson trying to tackle Devon Hester as the last defender on a kick return.

I was questioning Babcock when he first had Brunner out on the 4 vs. 4. I immediately thought he was crazy due to his defensive game but then a new thought had dawned on me. While he may not be the best defensively, 4 on 4 also creates space similar to european ice. The boy knows how to use space when given to him, it's what he's been trained on all this time. So in reality, I think he was more on the 4 on 4 to just go score goals, then to think about defense. Babcock most likely sees his offensive game outweighing his defensive game. I agree that he needs to work on defense, but we have 3-4 year veterans on this lineup that still have problems selecting whom they are responsible for in the zone.

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Like I said he definitely can work on his defense, he is already better than Franzen at it. It will come, he is new to the NA game, give him some time and he will be ok defensively

I wonder what makes you think he'll become better definsively. It's got nothing to do with "adjustment", rink size or no-contact-league-Switzerland (or whatever you'll call it, and looking at the first few NHL games and the ref calls, that may not hold true): Brunner never was and never will be solid defensively. He got used to playing in a line with the best players available, and he'll be able to score a lot more than he has thus far with the Wings. In that sense, yes, give him a little more time to adjust.

That said, the defensemen and goalies in the NHL are - on average - a tad bit better than in the Swiss league, so we'll have to see how he deals with this (and in the long run, how opponent's defence deals with HIM).

In any case, he'll be good for Detroit, but probably not on pk and 4-4 because of his immense deficits in the defense.

Edited by Mater_Horn

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I wonder what makes you think he'll become better definsively. It's got nothing to do with "adjustment", rink size or no-contact-league-Switzerland (or whatever you'll call it, and looking at the first few NHL games and the ref calls, that may not hold true): Brunner never was and never will be solid defensively. He got used to playing in a line with the best players available, and he'll be able to score a lot more than he has thus far with the Wings. In that sense, yes, give him a little more time to adjust.

That said, the defensemen and goalies in the NHL are - on average - a tad bit better than in the Swiss league, so we'll have to see how he deals with this (and in the long run, how opponent's defence deals with HIM).

In any case, he'll be good for Detroit, but probably not on pk and 4-4 because of his immense deficits in the defense.

I understand your point and what you were getting at, but if memory serves correctly, there was a certain captain of ours for 20 years that started off a pure goal scorer that could not for the life of him backcheck whatsoever, yet he was turned into one of the best 2-way forwards in the league. Granted he had scotty as a coach, but I'm sure if Brunner is willing he can be taught how to be a little more responsible defensively. I just don't want him to be afraid of taking risks to score

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[...] I'm sure if Brunner is willing he can be taught how to be a little more responsible defensively. I just don't want him to be afraid of taking risks to score

Whenever I see him "floating around" in situations where it would be appropriate to attack/disturb, I hope he'll overcome his instincts, and just goes for the man/puck, which is the most ordinary thing in the hockey world. He's 26, but apparently, he still has to "learn" that (huh?!). IMO, he needs to do start doing these things, or there'll be no one who can really afford to have him on the team...

No worries, he's not gonna be afraid to shoot whenever he thinks he can score. And he'll be good at this :bye:

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I wonder what makes you think he'll become better definsively. It's got nothing to do with "adjustment", rink size or no-contact-league-Switzerland (or whatever you'll call it, and looking at the first few NHL games and the ref calls, that may not hold true): Brunner never was and never will be solid defensively. He got used to playing in a line with the best players available, and he'll be able to score a lot more than he has thus far with the Wings. In that sense, yes, give him a little more time to adjust.

That said, the defensemen and goalies in the NHL are - on average - a tad bit better than in the Swiss league, so we'll have to see how he deals with this (and in the long run, how opponent's defence deals with HIM).

In any case, he'll be good for Detroit, but probably not on pk and 4-4 because of his immense deficits in the defense.

He looks too hard nosed not to want to play D, especially when he can learn from some of the best ever. He comes from a league where it seems defense is not really required of forwards, but i think he knows that if he wants to stay here, he'll have to learn. As posted above, we've seen scoring forwards go through the learning process here before, a guy who scored 150 points as a matter of fact. So, it's kind of expected of Detroit players now.

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