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evilzyme

Tatar frustrated; says he will only play in NHL when contract done

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No Sammy is not better than anyone on this team. All he is doing is wasting money and when he is actually healthy wasting a roster spot a young guy deserves. THE INLY THING he and Bert bring is size but were better of finding that via trade or fa. We need size but size that's reliable and young.

Exchanging Sammy for Brunner doesn't suddently transform us from kids to an old, injury-prone team. Have some common sense.

We need a lot of things. But we can't just throw half the team out the window and replace them with the types of players that you want. That means strategically keeping some players too.

I also dislike that you throw Helm into that group. He's easily one of the best players on this team. He's had some pretty bad luck, but I wouldn't consider him "injury prone".

As opposed to just arguing in circles about points though, we can keep it a bit more to the point: please outline your ideal roster for next year, including the new players that could realisitically be coming in. I think we can all agree that Cleary, Bertuzzi, Samuelsson and Filppula have been disappointing. But then we have to replace them. Nyquist and Tatar, while great to have, are only two people, and at least one of them has already been on the team pretty much all season anyways. And here we are.

Edited by Zetts

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I don't really understand all the fuss from this. Tatar is pretty much calling the sky blue...

He's out of minor league options after this season, so he pretty much can already be penciled into the opening 23 man roster for next year. The Wings already know he can contribute at the NHL level. So unless he pulls a Ville Leino next season, he'll be signing a one-way deal sometime between then and October 2014.

I fail to see what the big commotion is...

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Exchanging Sammy for Brunner doesn't suddently transform us from kids to an old, injury-prone team. Have some common sense.

We need a lot of things. But we can't just throw half the team out the window and replace them with the types of players that you want. That means strategically keeping some players too.

I also dislike that you throw Helm into that group. He's easily one of the best players on this team. He's had some pretty bad luck, but I wouldn't consider him "injury prone".

As opposed to just arguing in circles about points though, we can keep it a bit more to the point: please outline your ideal roster for next year, including the new players that could realisitically be coming in. I think we can all agree that Cleary, Bertuzzi, Samuelsson and Filppula have been disappointing. But then we have to replace them. Nyquist and Tatar, while great to have, are only two people, and at least one of them has already been on the team pretty much all season anyways. And here we are.

Helm is a fourth line player maybe third and you say one of the best? LOL

And no Sammy is one of the few guys you hold onto. He has no business being on this team. Between Bert and Sammy I choose Bert. Imeven if its only a 1% chance he plays. We need size and he used his Sammy doesn't. We have even soft euro trash yes looking at you franzen. Franzen even though I hate him scores more than Sammy.

Someone mentioned lucic and I'd love for nothing more to get him. That's the exact type of player be need be u fortunately I just don't see it ;(.

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Helm is a fourth line player maybe third and you say one of the best? LOL

And no Sammy is one of the few guys you hold onto. He has no business being on this team. Between Bert and Sammy I choose Bert. Imeven if its only a 1% chance he plays. We need size and he used his Sammy doesn't. We have even soft euro trash yes looking at you franzen. Franzen even though I hate him scores more than Sammy.

Someone mentioned lucic and I'd love for nothing more to get him. That's the exact type of player be need be u fortunately I just don't see it ;(.

At his role? Yes, I do think he's one of the best. He's obviously not going to put up 80 points, but he's extremely valuable. I'm shocked I even have to discuss that point.

So you'd like Lucic but don't think it will happen. Allow me to summarize your view as I understand it (and please correct any inaccuracies):

Get rid of: Helm, Filppula, Cleary, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi (but maybe keep him if we have to, although you wouldn't like it). Let me know if I'm missing anyone.

Bring in: Nyquist, Tatar.

Yeah, that would make me feel much better about next season. :rolleyes:

My point is, it's easy to complain (and I certainly understand your frustration). But if you're going to talk about ditching a pile of people, it would be nice to perhaps suggest a way to improve the team?

Do you perhaps now see more why I'm frustrated that you get angry when I suggest we keep one player? Certainly some people have to go, but we can't re-make our team over night.

Edited by Zetts

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I agree with Tatar and this is where I feel Holland is being a hypocrite. The kid clearly won a spot on the team and he should be playing. As far as anyone wanting to put blame on Babcock, I just don't understand that when he's given him enough time for a rookie and even used him on the powerplay.

I'm pretty sure he's got Cleary's spot next season, but I can definitely understand his frustration. He looked pretty good during his time with the team, and it appears as if Nyquist is ready to make the jump as well. I truly feel like Cleary and Miller are done with the team, and an amnesty buyout should be used on Samuelsson.

If Tatar and Andersson (and Nyquist to a lesser extent) aren't with the Red Wings next season, there's really no defending Holland. The kids are ready.

I feel like Miller deserves to be on the team. He's been very good in his role and I'd like to see him stay over Eaves, but I think you're right, he's most likely gone after the season along with Cleary.

Here's what I don't understand. Even if we cut all the fat from the forward corps. Let Cleary walk, buy out Bert or Sammy or both, and replace them will all the GR guys who deserve to come up, we're still one of the smallest and softest teams ever to be assembled. You can't have a top six of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula, Tatar, Brunner, Nyquist, Jarnkrok. They'll get forced to the outside, and wither away playing a perimeter game. So it's pretty obvious that at some point some of these guys are going to have to be moved out and replaced with gritty guys with size right?

That's a good point. I wonder if Holland had Tatar as one of the prospects he tried to trade away at the deadline to give him a chance to play elsewhere like Calgary so we could keep size up front + Bouwmeester.

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I am not trying to defend Holland, but how much of this is also on Babcock? There seems to be no doubt that he prefers the Clearys and Millers(veterans) over younger players. Holland may just be thinking it is better to be actually playing in GR then minimal mins in Det

If Holland wanted Tatar in Detroit getting minutes he would be getting minutes.

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At his role? Yes, I do think he's one of the best. He's obviously not going to put up 80 points, but he's extremely valuable. I'm shocked I even have to discuss that point.

So you'd like Lucic but don't think it will happen. Allow me to summarize your view as I understand it (and please correct any inaccuracies):

Get rid of: Helm, Filppula, Cleary, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi (but maybe keep him if we have to, although you wouldn't like it). Let me know if I'm missing anyone.

Bring in: Nyquist, Tatar.

Yeah, that would make me feel much better about next season. :rolleyes:

My point is, it's easy to complain (and I certainly understand your frustration). But if you're going to talk about ditching a pile of people, it would be nice to perhaps suggest a way to improve the team?

Ya see you're assuming the wrong things. Helm for example I live the guy he is comparable to draper. A little less tough but faster version.

I want fil to be back as my guess is dats will be gone in a year( I hope I'm wrong).

By getting rid of Sammy and Bert with buyouts and not resigning cleary you then have the money to target a decent of in fa or we could hold onto to them(which I've made it clear I don't want to) and we could use Tatar, Nyquist, helm or whoever as trade pieces to acquire a player like lucic(we won't get him but any player like him).

I'm only saying if it comes down to say Nyquist and Tatar or Bert and Sammy I choose the former.

The problem we have now and in the future is scoring and size. But with berts back issues I have a hard time trusting him. Sammy doesn't bring size cause he is like franzen and doesn't use it. Tatar can score so I'd take him over Sammy everyday and he is cheaper.

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I'm only saying if it comes down to say Nyquist and Tatar or Bert and Sammy I choose the former.

Oh, I definitely agree with that. You have no argument from me on that one at all.

Edit: You'll note that in my earlier posts, not only did I say that I want both on this team, I even suggested Nyquist be in the top 6. To expand on that though, I'd only want him in that role if we have some bigger guys in the top 6 as well, because as Kip pointed out, a potential future top 6 using 6 of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula, Franzen, Tatar, Brunner and Nyquist lacks a lot of elements.

Edited by Zetts

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I think the Wings just wanted to utilize Tatar's last opportunity to work on his game at the AHL level. Babcock had said that Tatar had a few things to improve upon, so why not let him work on that stuff without the pressure of performing at the highest level? It isn't like he has gone lights out at the AHL level either, his best season was 58 points. He'll be on the club full time next season, so his frustration will be shortlived.

I question the validity of this article though. I think some of it might be reworded or taken out of context. The Russian media did that when the Wings didn't just hand Igor Grigorenko a spot next to Datsyuk on the top line...




I want fil to be back as my guess is dats will be gone in a year( I hope I'm wrong).

If the team has to rely on Filppula to cushion the loss of Datsyuk, they are DOOMED.

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Nyquist Datsyuk Tatar

Filp Helm Zetterberg

Franzen Andersson Bertuzzi

Abby Emms Eaves/Toots

...but for now,

Nyquist Datsyuk Tatar

Filp Zetterberg Franzen

Abby Andersson Cleary

Eaves Emms Miller/Toots

Edited by T.Low

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Keep playing Cleary over him, it seems to be working.

Mismanagement x 1000

esteef likes this

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Nyquist Datsyuk Tatar

Filp Helm Zetterberg

Franzen Andersson Bertuzzi

Abby Emms Eaves/Toots

...but for now,

Nyquist Datsyuk Tatar

Filp Zetterberg Franzen

Abby Andersson Cleary

Eaves Emms Miller/Toots

Penciling in the Emdog. Good man.

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One of the most frustrating things for a fan or coach watching hockey is when players don't leave it all out there. Often times this season, I have seen some of our players "mailing it in" for many games and not bringing any energy. Franzen has for sure been guilty of this but not surprisingly Cleary has been lacking in the energy department. Young guns like Tatar and Nyquist have something to play for and are bringing their full effort every night. THAT is why they should be in the lineup (especially when we are losing anyways). The only players last night I was really content with was Nyquist, Andersson, and Emmerton - all playing for their future jobs. Tatar is frustrated because he knows he can bring the energy and if enough guys do it - it becomes contagious. Lately Tatar has even looked like he is trying to do too much in GR because he probably thinks he needs to do more to earn a spot - however, in my mind he has already earned it.

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Nyquist Datsyuk Tatar

Filp Helm Zetterberg

Franzen Andersson Bertuzzi

Abby Emms Eaves/Toots

...but for now,

Nyquist Datsyuk Tatar

Filp Zetterberg Franzen

Abby Andersson Cleary

Eaves Emms Miller/Toots

It's really a struggle for me to find room for Brunner. I really like the guy and want him to do well, but unless he starts scoring again, I honestly see Nyq and Tatar as harder on the puck and eventually becoming a decent scoring line with Dats.

Or it's

Nyq Dats Tats

Filp Z Brunner

Franzen Helm Bert

Abby Anders Eaves/Toots

I'd really like to see "The Nightmare on Helm St". up with Filp and Z; Holy Crap.

Edited by T.Low

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I think the Wings just wanted to utilize Tatar's last opportunity to work on his game at the AHL level. Babcock had said that Tatar had a few things to improve upon, so why not let him work on that stuff without the pressure of performing at the highest level? It isn't like he has gone lights out at the AHL level either, his best season was 58 points. He'll be on the club full time next season, so his frustration will be shortlived.

I question the validity of this article though. I think some of it might be reworded or taken out of context. The Russian media did that when the Wings didn't just hand Igor Grigorenko a spot next to Datsyuk on the top line...

If the team has to rely on Filppula to cushion the loss of Datsyuk, they are DOOMED.

Well yes fil is half the player dat is but he can be a second line center. People are down on him when he is wing and yes I agree he isn't a food winger. But at center he is just fine.

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Well yes fil is half the player dat is but he can be a second line center. People are down on him when he is wing and yes I agree he isn't a food winger. But at center he is just fine.

I really like Valterri, but every now and then I can't help but wonder if we kept the wrong Filp? Illari seemed more goal oriented, and that's what we lack.

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Nyquist Datsyuk Tatar

Filp Helm Zetterberg

Franzen Andersson Bertuzzi

Abby Emms Eaves/toots

Horrible just horrible. You want too many play makers on same lines. And ALL of the size on the same lines. Using the same people not including injuries this is much better:

Z. Dats Abby

Tatar fil franzen

Nyquist Anderson clearly

Then whatever is left here.

Didn't include Bert or helm cause they're hurt. I'd put helm on third line over Anderson. And Bert there over clearly.

You have no size on your top line. As well as two playmakers in Nyquist and dats. You have all your size on third line. And I'm the biggest franzen hater there is but he isn't a third line player.

Edited by DeGraa55

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Horrible just horrible. You want too many play makers on same lines. And ALL of the size on the same lines. Using the same people not including injuries this is much better:

Z. Dats Abby

Tatar fil franzen

Nyquist Anderson clearly

Then whatever is left here.

Didn't include Bert or helm cause they're hurt. I'd put helm on third line over Anderson. And Bert there over clearly.

You have no size on your top line. As well as two playmakers in Nyquist and dats. You have all your size on third line. And I'm the biggest franzen hater there is but he isn't a third line player.

Your lines are too close to what we've been panfully watching all season. Nyq Dats Tats would totally dazzle; Helm would relieve Z to go back to his scoring ways of yesteryear; Franzen, Anderss and Bert would be really tuff to play against. Just when the opponent thinks they got it, put Bert and Johan with Dats and send Nyq and Tats down to Anderss.

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Your lines are too close to what we've been panfully watching all season. Nyq Dats Tats would totally dazzle; Helm would relieve Z to go back to his scoring ways of yesteryear; Franzen, Anderss and Bert would be really tuff to play against. Just when the opponent thinks they got it, put Bert and Johan with Dats and send Nyq and Tats down to Anderss.

.

Helm has no business even being mentioned on a second line. And that pansy first line would get pushed around like little kids.

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.

Helm has no business even being mentioned on a second line. And that pansy first line would get pushed around like little kids.

Yeah, like Tatar Fil Franzen is so much tougher than Tatar Dats Nyq.

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So much emphasis on "Tough." Look at Nyquist (and Dats most nights) out there yesterday just skating and backchecking and picking pockets then turning the puck back and taking it straight to the net and making chances. That EFFORT makes up for any size. I'm not against size - but I think we can still be effective as a skilled team. We always have been to some extent. There was this guy Lidstrom that played defence pretty well and never hit anyone and he did pretty well along the boards and in all areas of the ice.

EDIT: the key words I would use is "tough to play against." A line can still be skilled and small and be hard to play against. Being tough to play against is all I care about.

Edited by dirtydangles
Nev and Jesusberg like this

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I don't really understand all the fuss from this. Tatar is pretty much calling the sky blue...

He's out of minor league options after this season, so he pretty much can already be penciled into the opening 23 man roster for next year. The Wings already know he can contribute at the NHL level. So unless he pulls a Ville Leino next season, he'll be signing a one-way deal sometime between then and October 2014.

I fail to see what the big commotion is...

I agree. This is mountains out of mole hills.

Though I wouldn't pencil him in just yet. Babs seems to prefer Gus, so I think he has a better shot even though he's still exempt next year. There's not all that much room on the roster. I think he's a prime trade candidate. I'd say his chances of being on the team next year is maybe 75% at most.

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^ "There's not all that much room on the roster" is the problem. He's better than half our roster.

esteef

Edited by esteef

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