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DatsyukToZetterberg

Kindl

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I would love Kindl to be packed up and traded for a better Dman. IMO Kindl on the 2nd pp is not working and he should not be on the 2nd PP over Brendan Smith. I have no idea what is taking Babs so long to figure that out.

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To be clear, I don't think Kindl is near the top of this team's woes.

My beef with him is basically the same as it has been. He's way to easily intimidated and pushed around for a guy as big as he is. And he has the skillset to be much better a player.

I mentioned his assists on the PP because I'd venture to guess half of his assists are secondary, and those are even easier to pick up when you get as much PP time as he does. One of the few places Kindl had excelled was on the PP, particularly at getting shots through to the net, but he seems to have regressed there too lately.

Fair enough, and I'm not disagreeing with your criticisms. I guess I'm just ok with his shortcomings when balanced against what he brings to the table. But as I've said all along, I assume he'll be replaced by someone better soon enough, and I wouldn't be opposed to him being moved now in the right package.

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I think adding a confident puck moving defensemen will change the whole dynamic of the Defense. Lets Ericsson and Kronwall relax and play to their strengths. If Babcock used our defensemen to their strengths and stopped trying to change the player they are it would also benefit the team

This I would agree with, especially if it was at the cost of Kindl. We were at our best with a nice offensive one-two punch on the blue line with Lidstrom and Rafalski, I think a Kronwall/Edler combo or even split between the top two D lines would be beneficial especially on the power play.

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We needed a lot of things from this defense for this season to be successful.

1. Smith to start trending towards, at the very least, being a top-four offensive defenseman.

2. Kindl to continue to grow his game and contribute more and more as time went on.

3. Kronwall and Ericsson to stay healthy and play consistently well on the top pairing.

4. Quincey to be...well...any bit better.

5. DeKeyser to lock down a spot as a defensive defenseman in the top-4.

None but one of those have happened (and I think it's pretty obvious which one it is), and not all for the fault of the player in question. Number 3 has half-happened, I suppose.

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To be clear, I don't think Kindl is near the top of this team's woes.My beef with him is basically the same as it has been. He's way to easily intimidated and pushed around for a guy as big as he is. And he has the skillset to be much better a player.I mentioned his assists on the PP because I'd venture to guess half of his assists are secondary, and those are even easier to pick up when you get as much PP time as he does. One of the few places Kindl had excelled was on the PP, particularly at getting shots through to the net, but he seems to have regressed there too lately.

Harold- you totally hit the nail on the head. My knock on Kindl throughout this career is that he will not take a hit to make a play. He won't g in to dirty areas.....he is always trying to avoid contact which affects his decision making down low.....basically, the guy is a coward. Most of his turnovers are a direct result of being intimidated off the puck. I look at Tatar and the little dude will get jacked up to make a play.

Kindl has all the skills to be in the top 4 but he never will if he isn't willing to pay the physical price.

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I like Kindl. I think he's a sleeper, a late-bloomer. I think he's trying to figure himself out, become himself. Before last season, we all had him pegged as a defensive defenseman who doesn't use his size. Now we think of him as an offensive defenseman.

Bottom line: he's 26. That's around the age when forwards tend to break out. It's typically a bit later for defensemen, 27 or 28 (see: Ericsson, Jonathan). So I'd hate to see us deal Kindl then watch him tear it up with some other team.

On the other hand, I wonder if a package of Quincey, Kindl, Almqvist, and maybe a first-round pick or a promising forward prospect (Pulkkinen?) might be enough to fetch us something really good.

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I like Kindl. I think he's a sleeper, a late-bloomer. I think he's trying to figure himself out, become himself. Before last season, we all had him pegged as a defensive defenseman who doesn't use his size. Now we think of him as an offensive defenseman.

Bottom line: he's 26. That's around the age when forwards tend to break out. It's typically a bit later for defensemen, 27 or 28 (see: Ericsson, Jonathan). So I'd hate to see us deal Kindl then watch him tear it up with some other team.

On the other hand, I wonder if a package of Quincey, Kindl, Almqvist, and maybe a first-round pick or a promising forward prospect (Pulkkinen?) might be enough to fetch us something really good.

I would love to think it would, but teams don't want our spare parts and a few unproven, boom-or-bust prospects for something worthwhile.

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Actually, I'm gonna go ahead and answer my own question: that would not be nearly enough to land us something really good. Unless maybe it's an Edler situation where the guy is really struggling and clearly needs a change of scenery and we have sort of the "inside track" on him because we consider him a big fish that got away from us on draft day and we've tried trading for him in the past.


I would love to think it would, but teams don't want our spare parts and a few unproven, boom-or-bust prospects for something worthwhile.

Heh, yeah, I realized how stupid it sounded immediately after I posted it.

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I wonder what would happen if we had signed Schultz or Mike Green what Babcock would do with them. He seems to hate offensive defensemen

Mike Babcock would kill Mike Green. Literally. He would punch him in the head repeatedly until he died. That's a match made in hockey hell.

But, y'know, offensive defensemen are, by nature, frustrating for their coaches. Their job is to play defense, but their gift is...goal scoring, point production. Paul MacLean has, on more than one occasion, criticized Erik Karlsson for being a factor for both teams on the ice (the same thing Z said about Smith). Michele Therrien is not P. K. Subban's biggest fan. There's obvious tension between Adam Oates and Mike Green.

Point being, Nick Lidstrom was a god.

kipwinger likes this

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Not to go heavy on the hubris but I've been saying for YEARS this guy is a bust. The wings spent a 1st round pick on him and couldn't ever face up to their mistake...Everyone knows that the Wings are among the best in the league at recognizing and developing talent and it appears that the hubris vis a vis Kindl is on Kenny here.. no one is infallible... but you gotta get real and move on... I said years ago get something in a trade while he's still worth something... Compare Kindl's arrival in the D after years of mediocrity in the AHL to Dekeyser's immediate poise and impact in the NHL...there's your difference.

Edited by dicksmack

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I was at the game tonight against s***sburg. Kindl is just a pain to watch. I was 6 rows from the class and had a very good view. He is so weak on the puck, is afraid to take a hit, makes dumb passes. The most frustrating part is that Kindl continues to get powerplay time on the 2nd unit. He is just not good enough to play point on the PP. He NEVER knows when to shoot or not to shoot- everytime he does shoot it is so obvious that it will be blocked before he even shoots it. I have no idea how much worse he needs to be on the PP before Babs gives Smith a try because Smith has earned it.

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A guy like Dekeseyer coming in and outplaying everyone except 6+ year vets just shows how bad our defensive corpse is. DD is great but he is not a freak of nature, wings Defense is well below average. Stats are inflated by all the gifted defensive forwards and it's starting to catch up with them

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Smith was outstanding for his first few games back from injury. Since then he has regressed a bit but is still good and making great offensive plays. He is on the upswing. Why not reward him. Atleast put him and Kindl out there. Makes no sense

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