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Kassian on the way out of Van?


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#41 Richdg

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 12:19 PM

The self righteousness of some around here is honestly socking and naïve. Tinky was just arrested a year ago for being "super drunk", the RW stood by him but somehow Kassian is a Dbag? Getting a DUI and risking the lives of others on the roads is far worse than anything Kassian has ever done in a hockey game or to some un named bouncer at a bar. Ghost of probert calling. For years the RW's stood by him with all of his drug and alcohol issues, even when he was arrested coming across the boarder. Or McCarty's alcohol issues, Bertuzzi-the master of one of the worst cheap shots in NHL history, who we have brought into town twice. BTW, what team drafted Avery again? Oh yeah the RW.  I could go on about all the times Kozlov and Hudler came to the locker room drunk off of their a$$, but then again most of you ignore such facts. keep the blinders on, only pure as the driven snow types play for the RW's! LOL

 

The only question that should ever be asked is: Does picking up player X make us a better team? That is all that really matters. Now if there are better options out there, great! go for them as well. But to act holier than thou or the rest of the NHL is just plain silly and naïve. Not to mention you completely ignore much of the RW's great history.



#42 newfy

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 12:25 PM

Wouldnt mind it for the right price. His game is actually coming along and hes big, tough and young. He would fit in with the age structure of most of our young guys moving forward. I think its funny people see him jump into a hit and that makes him some player not fit for the wings, cause its not like any players on the wings (or alternate captains) have a history of doing that lol.

 

I picture a line of Mantha Sheahan Kassian in like 3 years and dont see how people wouldnt at least entertain the idea if the price is right.


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#43 Richdg

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 12:28 PM

right on newfy!



#44 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 01:53 PM

The self righteousness of some around here is honestly socking and naïve. Tinky was just arrested a year ago for being "super drunk", the RW stood by him but somehow Kassian is a Dbag? Getting a DUI and risking the lives of others on the roads is far worse than anything Kassian has ever done in a hockey game or to some un named bouncer at a bar. Ghost of probert calling. For years the RW's stood by him with all of his drug and alcohol issues, even when he was arrested coming across the boarder. Or McCarty's alcohol issues, Bertuzzi-the master of one of the worst cheap shots in NHL history, who we have brought into town twice. BTW, what team drafted Avery again? Oh yeah the RW.  I could go on about all the times Kozlov and Hudler came to the locker room drunk off of their a$$, but then again most of you ignore such facts. keep the blinders on, only pure as the driven snow types play for the RW's! LOL
 
The only question that should ever be asked is: Does picking up player X make us a better team? That is all that really matters. Now if there are better options out there, great! go for them as well. But to act holier than thou or the rest of the NHL is just plain silly and naïve. Not to mention you completely ignore much of the RW's great history.

 

There's nothing self righteous about not wanting the Wings to acquire a young player who has consistently shown the terrible judgment that Kassian has. We're not talking about one horrible incident like Bertuzzi.  Kassian has got a lot of great qualities but so far doesn't have it between the ears. 

I certainly don't need the Wings roster to be full of angels but there's a huge difference between a player who plays on the edge and a guy who runs around like an idiot trying to brain people. You can throw around hearsay about Kozlov and Hudler and cling to old time hockey nostalgia but the reality is that's just not how the league is run anymore. A guy like Kassian is going to get suspended a lot (as he already has), draw a lot of the league's scorn, and be a constant distraction for the team.

Barring a revolutionary change of character larger than even Matt Cooke's, the short answer is no he doesn't make the team better.

Avery wasn't drafted by the way. The Wings signed him as a free agent. They also traded him during his second year on the Wings before he ever even played 80 games with the club.

 

Wouldnt mind it for the right price. His game is actually coming along and hes big, tough and young. He would fit in with the age structure of most of our young guys moving forward. I think its funny people see him jump into a hit and that makes him some player not fit for the wings, cause its not like any players on the wings (or alternate captains) have a history of doing that lol.
 
I picture a line of Mantha Sheahan Kassian in like 3 years and dont see how people wouldnt at least entertain the idea if the price is right.

 

I've never liked Kronwall's "exploding upward" hits, but his were borderline whereas Kassian has repeatedly served up the Raffi Torres special. 

 

Even with those handful of questionable hits, Kronwall has never been suspended in his 9 NHL seasons.  You can scroll back to my earlier post listing all Kassian's suspensions.  It's not exactly an apples to apples comparison. 



#45 GMRwings1983

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 02:49 PM

I want us to acquire both Kassians, and put them on the same line as Datsyuk.  


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#46 Richdg

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 10:28 PM

I guess Probert would never be on the RW for most here..... So sad......



#47 RedWingsRox

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 10:41 PM

It would be a bit of a reclamation project so as long as it is a bag of pucks or 6th round pick ... sure.  

 

Apparently Bert is his hero and model.  


Edited by RedWingsRox, 22 March 2014 - 10:41 PM.


#48 GMRwings1983

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 10:53 AM

I guess Probert would never be on the RW for most here..... So sad......

 

Pretty much.  People have become so used to our softness that they refuse to accept a player that occasionally goes over the edge.  

 

Probert wasn't known as a cheap hitter, but he did some dirty stuff in his career like every tough guy.  


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#49 Hockeymom1960

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 11:14 AM

I want us to acquire both Kassians, and put them on the same line as Datsyuk.  

 

Well, when you put it that way......



#50 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 11:14 AM

I guess Probert would never be on the RW for most here..... So sad......

 

 

 

Pretty much.  People have become so used to our softness that they refuse to accept a player that occasionally goes over the edge.  

 

Probert wasn't known as a cheap hitter, but he did some dirty stuff in his career like every tough guy.  

 

Nice strawman you guys are building.  Not wanting Kassian doesn't equal hating guys who play with an edge.

 

Kassian hasn't "occasionally gone over the edge."   He's been suspended for dirty plays multiple times in multiple leagues and he's only 23 years old.  It's not like we're talking about players like Backes or Doan here. 



#51 GMRwings1983

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 12:49 PM

 

 

 

Nice strawman you guys are building.  Not wanting Kassian doesn't equal hating guys who play with an edge.

 

Kassian hasn't "occasionally gone over the edge."   He's been suspended for dirty plays multiple times in multiple leagues and he's only 23 years old.  It's not like we're talking about players like Backes or Doan here. 

 

So we'd actually have a forward on our team who inspires fear in other players.  What's wrong with that?  


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#52 Son of a Wing

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 03:36 PM

The self righteousness of some around here is honestly socking and naïve. Tinky was just arrested a year ago for being "super drunk", the RW stood by him but somehow Kassian is a Dbag? Getting a DUI and risking the lives of others on the roads is far worse than anything Kassian has ever done in a hockey game or to some un named bouncer at a bar. Ghost of probert calling. For years the RW's stood by him with all of his drug and alcohol issues, even when he was arrested coming across the boarder. Or McCarty's alcohol issues, Bertuzzi-the master of one of the worst cheap shots in NHL history, who we have brought into town twice. BTW, what team drafted Avery again? Oh yeah the RW.  I could go on about all the times Kozlov and Hudler came to the locker room drunk off of their a$$, but then again most of you ignore such facts. keep the blinders on, only pure as the driven snow types play for the RW's! LOL

 

The only question that should ever be asked is: Does picking up player X make us a better team? That is all that really matters. Now if there are better options out there, great! go for them as well. But to act holier than thou or the rest of the NHL is just plain silly and naïve. Not to mention you completely ignore much of the RW's great history.

 

I must have missed how being an addict and an overrated cheap-shot douchebag were in any way related....


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#53 frankgrimes

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 05:02 PM

The self righteousness of some around here is honestly socking and naïve. Tinky was just arrested a year ago for being "super drunk", the RW stood by him but somehow Kassian is a Dbag? Getting a DUI and risking the lives of others on the roads is far worse than anything Kassian has ever done in a hockey game or to some un named bouncer at a bar. Ghost of probert calling. For years the RW's stood by him with all of his drug and alcohol issues, even when he was arrested coming across the boarder. Or McCarty's alcohol issues, Bertuzzi-the master of one of the worst cheap shots in NHL history, who we have brought into town twice. BTW, what team drafted Avery again? Oh yeah the RW.  I could go on about all the times Kozlov and Hudler came to the locker room drunk off of their a$$, but then again most of you ignore such facts. keep the blinders on, only pure as the driven snow types play for the RW's! LOL

 

The only question that should ever be asked is: Does picking up player X make us a better team? That is all that really matters. Now if there are better options out there, great! go for them as well. But to act holier than thou or the rest of the NHL is just plain silly and naïve. Not to mention you completely ignore much of the RW's great history.

 

No there should be 2 questions:

1. does this guy make the team better

2. background = will he be a good fit in our locker room ? Probert (RIP :(  ) was never someone looking to start trouble or acted like a complete Dbag same goes for DMac. So what Hudler and Kozlov came to the locker room drunk. If you bring in players without looking at 2 the locker room can get from quiet and well behaved to cursed overnight.

 

I'm all for more toughness and I've posted my ideal fourth line more than once but guys like Zack Kassian no thanks, mind you I was a fan of his when the Sabres drafted him.


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#54 Richdg

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 08:10 PM

The point in this is, Kassian could be moved. That is the rumor. Yes there are always guys that are better, Lucic for example. But is there any chance the B's move him? No. Many are also over looking the progress in his game. He is tracking like guys like Bert and Lucic. First couple of years, a few scores and a lot of PIM's. Like most players it takes a few years to develop and learn the NHL game. No I am not saying that Kassian is going to become a 30 goal guy with 150 PIM's. But could he become a 20 goal guy with 150 PIM's? yes he can. he is 23 and it isn't going to cost a ton to pick him up right now.

Trading for guys BEFORE they reach their peak costs far less than picking up guys at their peak.



#55 Buppy

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 11:56 PM

The point in this is, Kassian could be moved. That is the rumor. Yes there are always guys that are better, Lucic for example. But is there any chance the B's move him? No. Many are also over looking the progress in his game. He is tracking like guys like Bert and Lucic. First couple of years, a few scores and a lot of PIM's. Like most players it takes a few years to develop and learn the NHL game. No I am not saying that Kassian is going to become a 30 goal guy with 150 PIM's. But could he become a 20 goal guy with 150 PIM's? yes he can. he is 23 and it isn't going to cost a ton to pick him up right now.

Trading for guys BEFORE they reach their peak costs far less than picking up guys at their peak.

Pretty big stretch to say "tracking like Bert and Lucic". So far all he's done is not score very much. Sure it's somewhat similar (though lower), but it's also similar to a mile long list of players who went on to never score very much.

 

May not cost much to get him, but it would cost a roster spot (which are in short supply around here). He's a tougher (though hits less), less disciplined, defensively inferior, Abdelkader. TootooTwo. If we want that, might as well just put Tootoo back in since he wouldn't cost anything.



#56 number9

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 02:57 AM

The point in this is, Kassian could be moved. That is the rumor. Yes there are always guys that are better, Lucic for example. But is there any chance the B's move him? No. Many are also over looking the progress in his game. He is tracking like guys like Bert and Lucic. First couple of years, a few scores and a lot of PIM's. Like most players it takes a few years to develop and learn the NHL game. No I am not saying that Kassian is going to become a 30 goal guy with 150 PIM's. But could he become a 20 goal guy with 150 PIM's? yes he can. he is 23 and it isn't going to cost a ton to pick him up right now.

Trading for guys BEFORE they reach their peak costs far less than picking up guys at their peak.

 

RFA, 23 years old, high draft pick, big, violent, on pace for 30 pts as mostly a bottom liner, and he's going to be cheap?

 

You think Vancouver of all teams is going to sell him cheap? He'll net a 1st rounder at the very very least.

 

He's a mid-range RFA that's proven most of his value comes from bad penalties and team distractions, only Garth Snow would make a move to acquire his rights. No GM in their right mind is gonna give up what's necessary to take a a chance on this guy. He'll probably remain in Van.



#57 Richdg

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 07:12 PM

Being an addict is WORSE than taking cheap shots in a hockey game. The first risks the lives of other people like your wife and kids.

 

Buppy, Kassian is having the same type of start to his career as Bertuzzi and Lucic have had.

 

Kassian 147 NHL games to date. 22 goals 22 assists and 224 PIM's

 

Bertuzzi 1st 2 years played 140 NHL games 28 goals 34 assists 151 PIM's

 

Lucic 1st 2 years played 149 NHL games 25 goals 44 assists 225 PIM's

 

Those are very similar numbers. Now what will Kassian be? No one knows. Could he be a top power forward in the next 3 years? yes. TBH it is all up to him. he has the talent.



#58 Buppy

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 02:43 PM

No, it isn't the same type of start. It's just some numbers that happen to be in the same ballpark.

 

Bert in his first season (20/21 yo) scored 18g, 39p then regressed a bit for the next few years. Lucic scored 8g, 27p as a 19 yo rookie, then improved to 17g, 42p in his second year. Then had a regression year where he missed 30 games before breaking out for 30g as 23 yo.

 

Kassian at 20/21 scored 4g, 10p in 44 games. 7g, 11p in 39 games the next year. So far this year his goal scoring pace is down from last year.

 

He has not had the big rookie year of Bert, nor the big improvement of Lucic. There's nothing really similar except that the total goals is somewhat close after a similar amount of games. There's no real similarity between Bert and Lucic themselves, much less between either or both and Kassian. Again, all Kassian has done so far is not score a lot. Plenty of people have done that. Some good, some bad.

 

Point is, Kassian is not very good right now. We don't have many (or really any) roster spots. Those we do have are better used for other needs.



#59 kipwinger

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 03:13 PM

No, it isn't the same type of start. It's just some numbers that happen to be in the same ballpark.

 

Bert in his first season (20/21 yo) scored 18g, 39p then regressed a bit for the next few years. Lucic scored 8g, 27p as a 19 yo rookie, then improved to 17g, 42p in his second year. Then had a regression year where he missed 30 games before breaking out for 30g as 23 yo.

 

Kassian at 20/21 scored 4g, 10p in 44 games. 7g, 11p in 39 games the next year. So far this year his goal scoring pace is down from last year.

 

He has not had the big rookie year of Bert, nor the big improvement of Lucic. There's nothing really similar except that the total goals is somewhat close after a similar amount of games. There's no real similarity between Bert and Lucic themselves, much less between either or both and Kassian. Again, all Kassian has done so far is not score a lot. Plenty of people have done that. Some good, some bad.

 

Point is, Kassian is not very good right now. We don't have many (or really any) roster spots. Those we do have are better used for other needs.

 

Yeah but he's really big...doesn't that mesmerize you?


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