Bannedforlife 403 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 You just said that holland should be fired if he signs any free agent to a contract higher than Datsyuk or Zetterberg's. A policy like that isn't going to get us the elite scoring winger that we need (vanek or anybody else) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PumpkinEscobar 136 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 If you read the post it said VANEK...not all free agents...nice try though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Vanek isn't a 40 goal guy anymore. He's a 35 goal guy. Centers add more value than wingers. Power forwards add more value than non power guys. Compared to other players who score a lot who have signed contracts recently the guys who signed long term high money deals have been younger and brought something Vanek doesn't. Softer goal scoring wings on the wrong side of 30 have either signed 3-5 year deals for high salary or long term deals with lower cap hits. Further, I don't think Vanek puts the Wings over the top as favorites when they have Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, and Sheahan coming up. The way Tatar and Nyquist ate looking they may hit 30 goals next year. If the Wings are going to spend that much I'd rather see it go to defense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,232 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Nobody mentioning Chris Stewart? I'd take him every day of the week. The Stewart-for-Callahan rumor has me thinking they'd want a pretty even trade. I don't know how we'd pull that off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PumpkinEscobar 136 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Vanek isn't a 40 goal guy anymore. He's a 35 goal guy. Centers add more value than wingers. Power forwards add more value than non power guys. Compared to other players who score a lot who have signed contracts recently the guys who signed long term high money deals have been younger and brought something Vanek doesn't. Softer goal scoring wings on the wrong side of 30 have either signed 3-5 year deals for high salary or long term deals with lower cap hits. Further, I don't think Vanek puts the Wings over the top as favorites when they have Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, and Sheahan coming up. The way Tatar and Nyquist ate looking they may hit 30 goals next year. If the Wings are going to spend that much I'd rather see it go to defense. Exactly and I bet this season with being so close to the cap Holland is very choosy in who he signs next year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bannedforlife 403 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Wings won't pay Vanek or any other free agent more than Zetterberg or Datsyuk eitherWhatever. This team is not a couple of secondary scorers or depth defensemen away from a stanley cup. We need an elite puck moving defenseman AND a classic goal scoring power forward. We dont have either of those in the system and we won't be able to sign one with a self-imposed player salary cap of 6ish million dollars. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PumpkinEscobar 136 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Whatever. This team is not a couple of secondary scorers or depth defensemen away from a stanley cup. We need an elite puck moving defenseman AND a classic goal scoring power forward. We dont have either of those in the system and we won't be able to sign one with a self-imposed player salary cap of 6ish million dollars. Vanek won't put them over the top Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,232 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Never said they could never pay big bucks for top talent.Vanek isn't worth what he's gonna want.That is my point Vanek isn't a 40 goal scorer anymore The thing with top UFAs (the ones who dont re-sign) is that they're almost always going to want more than they're worth. Overpayment is the new normal. And if there's a top UFA whose price is absolutely right...you can be pretty sure that 20+ general managers will be all over him. I get what you're saying, though. If we're going to overpay for a top UFA, it should be someone who's really, really worth it. Someone who's too good to not fight for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bannedforlife 403 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 I dont think so either. But I'd rather spend it on him then save it. f***, at the very least we'd have another asset, one that we didn't have to trade for. Maybe then in a couple years when mantha and jurco and Tatar and nyquist have come into their own, we could trade him for an elite franchise defenceman or something. I can't get over how important it is for you guys to save money THAT ISN'T YOURS! You dont have to write the check, so dont worry about it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,232 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 I dont think so either. But I'd rather spend it on him then save it. f***, at the very least we'd have another asset, one that we didn't have to trade for. Maybe then in a couple years when mantha and jurco and Tatar and nyquist have come into their own, we could trade him for an elite franchise defenceman or something. I can't get over how important it is for you guys to save money THAT ISN'T YOURS! You dont have to write the check, so dont worry about it! I'm all for spending big if it's right, and I'm all against saving for the sake of saving. But, top UFAs - you can only have so many. And by "so many" I mean, like, one. So, if we sign Vanek, that's probably it for us for a good long while. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bannedforlife 403 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 We could sign 2 free agents to $8 million dollar contracts PLUS re-sign all of our rfas and we'd still be under the cap next year. For Christ sake, were more in danger of being a floor team next year than a ceiling team! This isn't letsgopreds.com! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PumpkinEscobar 136 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 We could sign 2 free agents to $8 million dollar contracts PLUS re-sign all of our rfas and we'd still be under the cap next year. For Christ sake, were more in danger of being a floor team next year than a ceiling team! This isn't letsgopreds.com! And be right where we are cap wise this season next season Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bannedforlife 403 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Well I guess im just a moron then. Please enlighten me as to what your master plan to return us to serious perennial cup contenders is... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PumpkinEscobar 136 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) You said it not me...sure as he'll wouldn't set the team up for cap hell like they are now Edited February 8, 2014 by PumpkinEscobar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bannedforlife 403 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Great plan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PumpkinEscobar 136 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 I agree Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bannedforlife 403 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Maybe we should buy out Datsyuk and Zetterberg and Alfredsson and Franzen and Weiss and Kronwall and Howard too just in case Crosby and Malkin and Stamkos and Tavares and Kane and Toews and Doughty and Weber and Karlsson and Rask become available! We wouldn't want to miss out on them! But only if they're willing to sign for league minimum, because it would be disrespectful to our next franchise captain who hasn't even been born yet to sign anyone to a higher salary than him!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 I might be okay with trading some serious assets for a d man at the deadline and maybe go hard for Vanek in the offseason. I don't see any progress being made unless we upgrade what our real issue is, the Defense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PumpkinEscobar 136 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Maybe we should be in a s***hole cap wise because you wanna pay everyone 8 mil a season....smh I might be okay with trading some serious assets for a d man at the deadline and maybe go hard for Vanek in the offseason. I don't see any progress being made unless we upgrade what our real issue is, the Defense. not sure how you're gonna do that..no cap space...already have to deal with the roster as it is after the Olympics..that's what happens when you have no cap space Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Maybe we should buy out Datsyuk and Zetterberg and Alfredsson and Franzen and Weiss and Kronwall and Howard too just in case Crosby and Malkin and Stamkos and Tavares and Kane and Toews and Doughty and Weber and Karlsson and Rask become available! We wouldn't want to miss out on them! But only if they're willing to sign for league minimum, because it would be disrespectful to our next franchise captain who hasn't even been born yet to sign anyone to a higher salary than him!!! Have you ever seen Vanek play hockey? Seems you just want him because we have money and he's the biggest FA that is going for the money. Lots of teams have a lot of money too. He'll go to some bad team with the same ideals as you 1 PumpkinEscobar reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bannedforlife 403 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Youll never be in a s***hole cap wise as long as you have tradeable assets. Thats our only issue this year (cap wise); zero tradable assets that were willing to part with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Maybe we should be in a s***hole cap wise because you wanna pay everyone 8 mil a season....smh not sure how you're gonna do that..no cap space...already have to deal with the roster as it is after the Olympics..that's what happens when you have no cap space Pretty easy just tack on some expiring contracts like Quincey and Sammy. Clears up enough space for an elite dman. Teams will be willing to take them if the difference between making a deal it's not like they have to play them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,232 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) We could sign 2 free agents to $8 million dollar contracts PLUS re-sign all of our rfas and we'd still be under the cap next year. For Christ sake, were more in danger of being a floor team next year than a ceiling team! This isn't letsgopreds.com! Look, I actually agree with you in spirit. I tend to be really pro-spending in these kinds of discussions. But, objectively, Kenny does have to be really careful. This summer's UFA class is going to be exceedingly thin, so the prices for the few really good options are going to be driven way the f*** up, probably to the point of outright absurdity (see: David Clarkson). On the other hand, the 2015 class looks like it could be pretty damn good. (Dat class.) So I'd be ok with mostly saving (i.e. not spending) this summer for the sake of improving our chances with next year's UFA class. More space also gives us more flexibility with potential trades. And I do think it's worth seeing if our young guns - mostly Nyquist and Tatar - can't become big-time players before bringing in two huge contracts. I'd still love to sign Girardi this summer, though. Edited February 8, 2014 by Dabura Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bannedforlife 403 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Have you ever seen Vanek play hockey? Seems you just want him because we have money and he's the biggest FA that is going for the money. Lots of teams have a lot of money too. He'll go to some bad team with the same ideals as youIm not even pro-vanek as much as I am anti-lets-save-all-this-cap-space-until-the-perfect-situation-presents-itself. I've got a secret for you: There will never be a perfect situation. There will always be a knock on a guy, or he wants too much money, or holland will forget to turn on his fax machine or whatever. Nothing will ever be perfect, you have to take a chance at some point. Youll never get ahead in life if you play it safe 100% of the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PumpkinEscobar 136 Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Pretty easy just tack on some expiring contracts like Quincey and Sammy. Clears up enough space for an elite dman. Teams will be willing to take them if the difference between making a deal it's not like they have to play them who in their right mind would trade an elite defenseman...let alone a decent one..for those guys? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
