frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Greenway is an awesome name and I like his size but like others said we need defense. If and that's a big if Zach Werenski falls a bit he would be very nice. 6,2 and 214 I would draft MacKenzie Blackwood just because of the name every team needs their own Greg McKeg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 That is your opinion, which is fine. But both Oullett and Marchenko are ahead of Sproul already. Which is why they are already playing in detroit. But and this is key, there are already potential holes in the forward corp-which you agree with. McKee is a hope more than anything-we could use his toughness, Little Tuzzi and nastisak are yet to be determined. That is 3 openings in the top 12. The BL is still much deeper. Not only the guys in GR but also guys like Wheaton, Mcnulty, deHaas, Backman, etc... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 That is your opinion, which is fine. But both Oullett and Marchenko are ahead of Sproul already. Which is why they are already playing in detroit. But and this is key, there are already potential holes in the forward corp-which you agree with. McKee is a hope more than anything-we could use his toughness, Little Tuzzi and nastisak are yet to be determined. That is 3 openings in the top 12. The BL is still much deeper. Not only the guys in GR but also guys like Wheaton, Mcnulty, deHaas, Backman, etc... Why are people questioning McKee all the time? He will be a fourth liner laying guys out left and right with big hits and drop the gloves if needed his job isn't to score goals. If there's no defender available draft Greenway and then Meloche in the second round Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingsallTheway 383 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 If we go forward 5-6 years, what would be the best possible lineup? Nyquist-Larkin-Mantha Tatar-AA-Nastisak? Jurco-Sheehan-Pulk McKee (I know....)-Glendening-Abby Miller-Little Tuzzi Dekeyser-marcenko Smith-Jensen Oullett-Sproul Lashoff Marsek Coreu Not to nitpick here but, I've never even considered Miller to be here in 6 years. I don't see him being effective at 36. Am I the only one who thinks this? 1 twopups reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Ouellet and Marchenko being ahead of Sproul means absolutely nothing. He has a much higher ceiling and will be the better NHLer in a few years. Where did I agree that there are "potential holes in the forward corp"?... I believe that our forwards of the future is our area of strength, our back end is clearly still our weakness... Our top 12 could round out with any combination of other guys, including Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, Nastasiuk, Callahan, Ferraro, Turgeon, Nosek, Janmark, Holmstrom, etc... All of the other defenders either project to never make the NHL or at best as 3rd pairing defensemen. The highest ceiling out of those guys is Backman and he's gone back to Sweden. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Smith, right now today we have 3 high end F prospects in the system: Mantha, Larkin and Pulk. The rest are all in the maybe some day they MIGHT become something group. On the BL we have 4 of those same high end prospects: Oullett, Sproul, Jensen, and marchenko. Then a nice collection of maybes. 4 is still greater than 3, and you need more F's than D on a team. Now i am not against taking a Dman in the 1st if there is one available that is better than the F's available. At this point in time I don't see one, but it is very early. If we have a bad 10 game stretch we could fall inot the 15-20 pick area and there are a few really good options there. Someone could fall while other rise-which always happens. As i started with, I think it is a F in the first. D or G in the second. Then fill out the roster from there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtydangles 1,328 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 We are going to be drafting a C with our 1st rounder unless a top d prospect somehow drops to us (think Fowler). We only have 1 prospect with potential to be a top 6 C (Larkin). We need more than that to replace Dats and Z in the not so distant future. You simply don't win without top C's on your team and Detroit's system relies heavily on having talent C's. I don't want to turn into Toronto with lots of talented wingers but no C's resulting in a pathetic team composition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) We are going to be drafting a C with our 1st rounder unless a top d prospect somehow drops to us (think Fowler). We only have 1 prospect with potential to be a top 6 C (Larkin). We need more than that to replace Dats and Z in the not so distant future. You simply don't win without top C's on your team and Detroit's system relies heavily on having talent C's. I don't want to turn into Toronto with lots of talented wingers but no C's resulting in a pathetic team composition.Athanasiou definitely has top6 c potential. Edited February 4, 2015 by jimmyemeryhunter 2 Son of a Wing and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Richdg, so what about the group of young guys (Sheahan, Nyquist, Tatar and Jurco) we currently have on the team up front? That's 4 top 6 guys right there. Are they not going to be around in a few years?... Also, you're severely underrating Athanasiou if you think he has an outside chance in being a top 6 player in a few years. It doesn't matter how many "high end prospects" you name on the back end, it doesn't change the fact that most top out at 3rd pairing guys. Other than DeKeyser and Smith (...and many would argue this guy as well), Sproul is the only guy that we have that has "top end potential"... No matter how you slice it, defense is our biggest need when it comes to a first round pick. We absolutely need another top end talent on the back end in the next few years. Now, of course it is possible we wait until the second if Holland and co. think there is a player going to be available that is an absolute steal, and it's also possible we trade one of our first two round picks either in a trade for a player at the deadline, or to move up or down in the draft. But this will, in all likelihood, be a defense heavy draft for us, unless, like I said, there is a forward available that we just can't pass over... You may do your research on upcoming drafts, and actually have somewhat of an idea what you're talking about here, but chances are you have never seen any of these guys actually play a game. I watch a ton of Griffins games, and even a fair amount of junior games, and I'll tell you for a fact, that we are much deeper up front than we are on the back end in the future. However, all of this is basing it on us not making any trades or any free agent signings, and the chances of that happening are zero. If we add a top 4 defenseman before the draft (which I think we will), that could change our priority in June... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 dirtydangles, we have much more than just Larkin as future top 6 centers. Larkin, Sheahan and Athanasiou will all be legit top 2 centers in this league in the future. We also have a bunch of guys that project to be more of 3rd line centers, but some could surprise and become 2nd line centers; Turgeon, Nosek, Janmark and Holmstrom. No, none of them are Datsyuk or Zetterberg caliber, but realistically were Datsyuk and Zetterberg Datsyuk and Zetterberg caliber when they were drafted? As always, some players will surprise and some will disappoint, but I think we should definitely be set down the middle for years to come... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 We also have ehn, vahatalo, kadeykhin who are all big centers 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Although I don't see Ehn or Vahatalo becoming players for us in the future, it is possible that one of them could surprise. But I remember after last years draft, I said that I thought that Kadeykin would be a steal in the 7th, and I still like his chances. He's putting respectable numbers in the KHL so far this season, 9 points (4 goals, 5 assists) in 20 games. Certainly not earth shattering, but decent none the less. If he has any interest in coming over to play in North America, I'd keep an eye on him for sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smite 399 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 How about homer jr? (yes I know they are not related) he looked decent at the World Jr's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 How about homer jr? (yes I know they are not related) he looked decent at the World Jr's.He was Sweden's #1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PumpkinEscobar 136 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Paul Bittner from the Portland Winterhawks is one I'd be interested in also Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Smith, yes we have a bunch of good young F's. but we will lose a few over the next couple of years. Trades happen, some will price themselves out of our range-cap issues, others will fail to develop. Sheehan is a good example. he is a #3. maybe he becomes a #2 someday, but right now as of today he is not. AA is a guy with great speed and good size, but again as of today he is not a dominate player at the AHL level. Could he develop? Yup. but he also could stall out. he played winger in Junior and they are trying to make him a C in the pro's-which is the right move IMHO. But it doesn't mean it will work. We all know without a doubt that most prospects don't pan out. It is true today, was true yesterday, and will be true tomorrow. about 1 of 5 draft picks ever turns into anything at the NHL level. or in simple terms, 1.5 players from each draft. That is it. Of course none of this includes any future moves. if say we were to pick up a guy like Meyers or Petry for our top 4, that would really decrease the need at D. Same is true if we add a high end F. Final thought. If we have say the 22th pick in the draft. The F's in this area are MUCH better than the Dmen in this area. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Smith, yes we have a bunch of good young F's. but we will lose a few over the next couple of years. Trades happen, some will price themselves out of our range-cap issues, others will fail to develop. Sheehan is a good example. he is a #3. maybe he becomes a #2 someday, but right now as of today he is not. AA is a guy with great speed and good size, but again as of today he is not a dominate player at the AHL level. Could he develop? Yup. but he also could stall out. he played winger in Junior and they are trying to make him a C in the pro's-which is the right move IMHO. But it doesn't mean it will work. We all know without a doubt that most prospects don't pan out. It is true today, was true yesterday, and will be true tomorrow. about 1 of 5 draft picks ever turns into anything at the NHL level. or in simple terms, 1.5 players from each draft. That is it. Of course none of this includes any future moves. if say we were to pick up a guy like Meyers or Petry for our top 4, that would really decrease the need at D. Same is true if we add a high end F. Final thought. If we have say the 22th pick in the draft. The F's in this area are MUCH better than the Dmen in this area. So how do all of these points not apply to our defense prospects as well?? Bottom-line is we have more quality young forwards and forward prospects than we do young quality defencemen and defensemen prospects. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Richdg, the more you say, the less I believe you know about our players and prospects... Sheahan is without a doubt, a legit second line center. He is "on pace" for 41 points in his first full season and I fully expect him to be a 50-60 point producer in this league as early as next season. He is already relied upon to match up against the toughest competition in the league, all while being able to produce at a very reasonable rate. Athanasiou has arguably had the smoothest transition from junior to pro than any player in the Red Wings organization in the past couple decades. He has excelled at every level and continues to impress, but yeah, it's completely reasonable to think he will not make it... So these very promising forward prospects might "stall out" but all those defense prospects are a sure thing right? Why is it that we're inevitably going to lose these forward prospects to trade but not the defense prospects? Is it because, maybe we are much deeper at forward than defense? Huh... Who woulda thunk it?... Final thought. It doesn't matter where we pick in the first round, I trust the Red Wings scouts to get it right, and my bet is on them taking a defenseman. We shall see... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nawein 324 Report post Posted February 5, 2015 Are there any goalies available around where we'd pick? I wouldn't be surprised to see us go that route. After Mrazek our depth is shaky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted February 5, 2015 Are there any goalies available around where we'd pick? I wouldn't be surprised to see us go that route. After Mrazek our depth is shaky. I do think we'll take a goalie somewhere in the draft. Not with the first though. Jake Paterson was also named OHL goaltender of the month for January. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smite 399 Report post Posted February 5, 2015 I do think we'll take a goalie somewhere in the draft. Not with the first though. Jake Paterson was also named OHL goaltender of the month for January. Jared Coreau got AHL weekly hour last week... I am not worried about depth at goaltender, but I do agree about adding another during the draft. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 5, 2015 I would honestly be surprised if we took a goalie this year. We have taken a goalie every second year for the past decade like clockwork. We took Chase Perry in the fifth round last year, Jake Paterson in the 3rd in 2012, Mrazek in the 5th in 2010, McCollum in the 1st in 2008, Daniel Larsson in the 3rd in 2006, and Howard in the 2nd in 2003... We're set in goal with the Red Wings for the next 5 plus seasons, with Jimmy and Petr, and by that time, I expect that Paterson or maybe even Perry will be making an impact on the organization. It's also still a possibility that one of McCollum or Coreau emerge as legit goaltenders within that time. Despite their struggles prior to this season, they're both putting up great numbers down in Grand Rapids this season. Coreau is putting up spectacular numbers (9-6-1 / 3 SO's / 0.930 SV% / 2.07 GGA) with the Griffins this season, and is only 23, which is still very young for a goaltender, and has great size (6'5", 235lbs.) to his advantage. I would bet on us continuing the trend of every second year and waiting until 2016 to pick another goaltender... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted February 5, 2015 Smith you are truely a guy whose glass is half full. Yes Sheehan is on pace right now for 39 or 40 points. But those are not #2 C numbers. 60ish points is what good #2 C put up per year. Will he ever get there? Who knows. Larkin has yet to play a single pro hockey game and you are already saying he is a true #2 C. yet you insist Sproul is the "only top 4 D prospect we have" when Oullett and Marchenko have already passed him and are outproducing him. Now having 3 very good high end D prospects is a good thing not a bad one. But we are still a bit weaker at the F spot. You need more F's, we are losing a bunch of talent, and don't as of yet have the bodies to replace those guys-to say nothing of improving our teams depth and talent level. Yes guys like AA could be very good someday. No one is disagreeing with you. But as of today he hasn't blossomed nor has Mantha or Larkin for that matter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted February 5, 2015 Jared Coreau got AHL weekly hour last week... I am not worried about depth at goaltender, but I do agree about adding another during the draft. We have Mrazek, McCollum, Coreau, Paterson, and Perry. 5 goalie prospects. We don't need more. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted February 5, 2015 Smith you are truely a guy whose glass is half full. Yes Sheehan is on pace right now for 39 or 40 points. But those are not #2 C numbers. 60ish points is what good #2 C put up per year. Will he ever get there? Who knows. Larkin has yet to play a single pro hockey game and you are already saying he is a true #2 C. yet you insist Sproul is the "only top 4 D prospect we have" when Oullett and Marchenko have already passed him and are outproducing him. Now having 3 very good high end D prospects is a good thing not a bad one. But we are still a bit weaker at the F spot. You need more F's, we are losing a bunch of talent, and don't as of yet have the bodies to replace those guys-to say nothing of improving our teams depth and talent level. Yes guys like AA could be very good someday. No one is disagreeing with you. But as of today he hasn't blossomed nor has Mantha or Larkin for that matter. Well that's just not true at all. Where do you get your numbers exactly?? Only 21 centers in the entire league put up over 60 points last year. So no...that is not the benchmark for a second-line center. Also you seem to confuse potential ceiling with current ability. 2 krsmith17 and number9 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
