Bill Berzeench 310 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 What's there to be busted about? You think Holland is a bad GM because he signed players that were predicted to have a decent upside? Hah. Ok. Let's put some perspective in that head of yers. Lets say we sign Danny D like EVERYONE is saying right away for say hmm 5 million a year. Let's say in 2 years Danny D ends up sucking. Now let's say we ship Howard off and sign Mrazek to I don't know, 6 million for 8 years. Let's say in just 1 year Mrazek starts sucking. Ah this is when the hindsight bias sets in. "Blame Holland! It's his fault we signed that s**** goalie Mrazek and that crappy defenseman Dekeyser!" All the while things looked great and fans were on board when it first happened. It's easy to be a player hater with some hindsight bias Mr. Berzeench . Nice try but there is no bust Holland has a job to do and things don't always work out the way you expect them to. Now what would be nice is if we can ship some of these players off for a good return. You got busted at your own game. It's ok. Smith and Kronwall have been near perfect. That's all that matters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) You got busted at your own game. It's ok. Smith and Kronwall have been near perfect. That's all that matters. Ah yes the generic response of someone who doesn't have a rebuttal. Nice try Bill you're getting there, sorry it didnt workout. As for second the bolded statement. Near perfect? Hah! That might be a smarter analogy than using Athanasiou on the 4th line. Remember when you thought Smith was a failure. What happened to that? Edited November 8, 2015 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacksoni 418 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 Overall ranking including defense, hockey IQ, offense. Kronwall Dekeyser (yes green is better offensively than DK, but obviously DK is a much safer and less liable D-man) Green Quincey Marchenko This. From an old defense man perspective Kronwall is clearly best overall defender. Base talent level, execution, vision is a notch higher than the rest overall. Worth mentioning that Green is better than Kronner offensively. Then you have the good specialists: DeKeyser - good defensive player. Could develop into a good 2-way player, but won't reach Kronwall level. Good size and mobility. Green - excellent offensive d-man but average defensively. Reached his ceiling. Quincey - good defensive player. Below average offensive skills. Reached his ceiling. Marchenko - good defensive player. Still raw, but has talent. Could possibly reach Kronwall level. The rest are a notch below those listed overall and should ideally be replaced. I'm not considering our current AHL players. 2 kickazz and NerveDamage reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UpstateNYRedWingsFan 42 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 To be on topic yes Smith and Kronwall have been good together. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanBarnes! 293 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 Yes Smith and Kronwall should be our only option. Ericsson does not belong in the top 4. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matt198913 932 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 Usually don't chime in much on here anymore, but Smith and Kronwall are by far the best pair option. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Internet.Unknown 422 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 The Wings should pair Jurco and Smith together ... in Grand Rapids. They both suck and yet are beloved by some for their "potential." (Yes, I know one's a forward and one's a defenseman). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Berzeench 310 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 The Wings should pair Jurco and Smith together ... in Grand Rapids. They both suck and yet are beloved by some for their "potential." (Yes, I know one's a forward and one's a defenseman). 1) Jurco is 22 and costs us next to nothing. Miller, Andersson, and Franzen are history soon. He will be a regular before too long. 2) Smith's upside is off the chart. His mistakes are also off the chart in a bad way, but he can skate, he's big, and he plays with an edge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 At what point does upside become unfulfilled potential? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Berzeench 310 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 At what point does upside become unfulfilled potential? With defensemen, around 28-30 years old. Most of these guys have a huge learning curve. Some like Danny DeKeyser, Ekblad, and Jones adapt quickly. But that's extremely rare. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 So this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Berzeench 310 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 So this year. Yah, i would say that if he's not playing well by years end, the Wings look to move him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 Smith looks good coming up ice but he doesn't really have a good shot or vision to sneak into the play. I think this is as good as Smith gets. He's been decent this year 1 NerveDamage reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 Yah, i would say that if he's not playing well by years end, the Wings look to move him. No no he's been a failure already remember? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 I've never seen a team struggle so much from the point. It might be time to rethink their approach with a net front guy because everything gets blocked bringing defenders into the lane. Try and spread their d out more Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted November 9, 2015 No no he's been a failure already remember?He hasn't been good, that's for sure. Million dollar talent, nickel head. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Berzeench 310 Report post Posted November 9, 2015 Kronwall-Smith broken up. 3 game win streak buh bye. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NerveDamage 4,176 Report post Posted November 9, 2015 Kronwall-Smith broken up. 3 game win streak buh bye. Coincidence?? I think not. I don't know much about D-pairing but I believe each more experienced, or top 3 D-men should be in charge of one line each. Like Kronwall-Smith, Green-Marchenko and Dekeyser-Ericsson. So they're more balanced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Internet.Unknown 422 Report post Posted November 9, 2015 1) Jurco is 22 and costs us next to nothing. Miller, Andersson, and Franzen are history soon. He will be a regular before too long. 2) Smith's upside is off the chart. His mistakes are also off the chart in a bad way, but he can skate, he's big, and he plays with an edge. Upside? At near 27? I have upside and I'm much older. Think the Wings would give me a tryout? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Berzeench 310 Report post Posted November 9, 2015 Coincidence?? I think not. I don't know much about D-pairing but I believe each more experienced, or top 3 D-men should be in charge of one line each. Like Kronwall-Smith, Green-Marchenko and Dekeyser-Ericsson. So they're more balanced. Agreed. And Smith lost his guy on that goal and made one horrible pinch, but was nowhere near the worst defenseman out there today. Green was a holy mess and by far the worst. Ericsson was chasing the play all game, and Dekeyser had a poor game as well. Part of me thinks the wings sucked today, but the big part of me knows the Stars are good and just beat the Wings. 1 NerveDamage reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted November 9, 2015 Green just came off injury and imo was our best dman. I can't even recall one bad play he made. As a whole I think the defense played pretty good aside from not getting any shots through Smith was pretty much directly responsible for 1 of their 2 goals. Their wasn't much between the two teams but nobody on defense was a holy mess but if anybody was bad it was Smith 3 rick zombo, PavelValerievichDatsyuk and canadian wings fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted November 9, 2015 Green just came off injury and imo was our best dman. I can't even recall one bad play he made. As a whole I think the defense played pretty good aside from not getting any shots through Smith was pretty much directly responsible for 1 of their 2 goals. Their wasn't much between the two teams but nobody on defense was a holy mess but if anybody was bad it was Smith This. All day long. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted November 9, 2015 Smith is one of, if not THE dumbest NHL players I've ever seen. 2 rick zombo and joesuffP reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted November 9, 2015 Smith is one of, if not THE dumbest NHL players I've ever seen. For sure the dumbest Red Wing I can remember. Makes Aaron Ward look like Joe Juneau . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Berzeench 310 Report post Posted November 9, 2015 Green just came off injury and imo was our best dman. I can't even recall one bad play he made. As a whole I think the defense played pretty good aside from not getting any shots through Smith was pretty much directly responsible for 1 of their 2 goals. Their wasn't much between the two teams but nobody on defense was a holy mess but if anybody was bad it was Smith Yah, nobody says hey, Nyquist was a minus 3 and was picking his ass the whole game instead of helping Smith and the Defense. They look at the only guy trying to play defense out there while 4 other red wings are ready for lazy boys. Smith isnt Lidstrom. Get over it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites