2/11 GDT Red Wings at Capitals 3:00 PM EST

[Jacksoni 418]

If we are to let the new guard play for real and learn then we have to accept wins like this, which to most of us here are losses now really.

Our hopes lies in losing long term this season statistically, which probably will happen to some degree given the season history. Bottom five would be ideal for me come draft lottery day but I'd take bottom 7 hands down. Very unlikely to land Orr, I mean Dahlin but I am fine with having a Chance to get him.

[chaps80 1,591]

18 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Because they're entirely different positions, with entirely different ways of thinking and entirely different skill sets.  It's the same reason baseball teams don't take an outfielder with a cannon for an arm and make him a pitcher, or an NFL team doesn't use an 0-lineman as a d-lineman.  Guys like Witkowski are a rarity, and generally don't really do either very well.  

This is true. Unless your Brent Burns.

Outfielders did pitch sometimes long ago. But these days it would never happen.

Edited February 13, 2018 by chaps80

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

22 hours ago, kickazz said:

He's a free agent this summer. If he says no to trade you really think we'll resign him for screwing us over like that? We need picks. Green can help us out by becoming a rental for another team. And if he really wants to stay in Detroit we can re-sign him in the summer. But he knows we need help and if he says no, he's not going to have very many friends in the front office. 

 

No, i don't think he would do that. I do believe he gets traded, just pointing out that he has the final say as to where, and that may affect the return.

On 2/11/2018 at 7:57 PM, DickieDunn said:

Genius coach understands that the best way to protect a lead is to stop playing hockey.  I wouldn't expect YOU PEOPLE to understand.  

What do you mean by "you people"?

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

20 hours ago, chaps80 said:

With Green, you give up defensive ability for offensive ability. Why not just transition a forward with some offensive skill and a good hard shot over to defence?

Witkowski can play both forward and defence, so I figure there’d be hopes for pretty much anyone to learn be able to.

Not saying it’s a replacement for Green. Just thinking. 

D can play forward, forwards can't play D. Skating backwards is pretty much a necessity for Dmen, most forwards either can't or not well. If you think the d is bad now, put a F back there.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

50 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

This is true. Unless your Brent Burns.

Outfielders did pitch sometimes long ago. But these days it would never happen.

Babe Ruth in reverse.

[barabbas16 499]

40 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

 

What do you mean by "you people"?

What do YOU mean by "you people"?

[kickazz 5,459]

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

D can play forward, forwards can't play D. Skating backwards is pretty much a necessity for Dmen, most forwards either can't or not well. If you think the d is bad now, put a F back there.

I'm not advocating putting a forward back on D, but to say most forwards can't skate well backwards is completely off base. Maybe that's a thing in beer leagues, but most decent NHL players are great skaters forwards, backwards and laterally. The reason you don't see forwards switch to defense or defense switch to forward is because of the mental side of the game rather than anything physical.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm not advocating putting a forward back on D, but to say most forwards can't skate well backwards is completely off base. Maybe that's a thing in beer leagues, but most decent NHL players are great skaters forwards, backwards and laterally. The reason you don't see forwards switch to defense or defense switch to forward is because of the mental side of the game rather than anything physical.

Yes and no. Its both physical and mental. D is a harder position to play than F. I'm sure you would agree with that. Just like in any sport, players are put into specific positions based on their abilities, both mental and physical. 

Look at football, what's the difference between WR and DB?  Even tho they are in many aspects the offense to defense counterparts, players generally cant just swap between the 2 positions (there are of course exceptions). Playing WR is less cerebral. Their ability to read the opposition is less important because they can make up for it with skill. WRs are often taller with greater vertical leap and better hands. Their route running and foot speed is significantly important to their success. DBs are more cerebral. They are often smaller, shorter, and slower (not always of course) than WRs. Their positioning and ability to read the offense is more important in order to compensate for physical deficiencies. Its harder to become a good DB than a good WR. Physical skill is more nature, mental ability is more nurture. Both are needed. Each side of the ball requires something different.

Same is true with hockey. Even a Selke winner would struggle as a Dman. But would a Dman struggle on a shutdown forward line? Much less so. The style or type of skating (for lack of a better term) is different between the front and back end. The Forward style of skating and positioning would not work as well as a defenseman, it would be more successful to move a dman up to play a defensive role as a forward. Wouldn't you agree? I don't think its just mental. The skating styles between the 2 also plays into it (among other things). D translates better to F, than the other way around. 

That's why you're more likely to see a team run with 5 D than move a forward back, and you are more likely to see D be moved up to play F if there's a shortage of forwards. Burns and Witkowski are examples. And I think that Meech played F a few times too? Other than Federov (for different reasons) I can't say that I have ever seen a F moved to play D except on power plays.

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Yes and no. Its both physical and mental. D is a harder position to play than F. I'm sure you would agree with that. Just like in any sport, players are put into specific positions based on their abilities, both mental and physical. 

Look at football, what's the difference between WR and DB?  Even tho they are in many aspects the offense to defense counterparts, players generally cant just swap between the 2 positions (there are of course exceptions). Playing WR is less cerebral. Their ability to read the opposition is less important because they can make up for it with skill. WRs are often taller with greater vertical leap and better hands. Their route running and foot speed is significantly important to their success. DBs are more cerebral. They are often smaller, shorter, and slower (not always of course) than WRs. Their positioning and ability to read the offense is more important in order to compensate for physical deficiencies. Its harder to become a good DB than a good WR. Physical skill is more nature, mental ability is more nurture. Both are needed. Each side of the ball requires something different.

Same is true with hockey. Even a Selke winner would struggle as a Dman. But would a Dman struggle on a shutdown forward line? Much less so. The style or type of skating (for lack of a better term) is different between the front and back end. The Forward style of skating and positioning would not work as well as a defenseman, it would be more successful to move a dman up to play a defensive role as a forward. Wouldn't you agree? I don't think its just mental. The skating styles between the 2 also plays into it (among other things). D translates better to F, than the other way around. 

That's why you're more likely to see a team run with 5 D than move a forward back, and you are more likely to see D be moved up to play F if there's a shortage of forwards. Burns and Witkowski are examples. And I think that Meech played F a few times too? Other than Federov (for different reasons) I can't say that I have ever seen a F moved to play D except on power plays.

Defense is not a "harder" position to play than forward, but like I said, it is probably a little easier for a defenseman to transition to forward than a forward to transition to defense. But again, it has nothing to do with skating capabilities. It's the way you have to think the game and anticipate plays developing. Most NHLers are phenomenal skaters. I'd even argue that most forwards in the league are better skaters than most defensemen, so it's certainly not the ability (or lack thereof) to skate in any direction that would hinder a forward from playing defense.

I played forward my entire life (Novice to Senior) and just recently switched to defense a few years ago in my beer league. It was a HUGE adjustment to go from forward (usually center) to defense. But it had absolutely nothing to do with the skating aspect, or anything physically. It was all about the mental side, mostly positioning.

Ericsson is a prime example of a forward that transitioned to defense. Most NHLers don't make that transition, or any transition when it comes to switching positions. Why would they? However, you can be guaranteed that most have played both offense and defense (some even goalie) at some point in their younger days. I've heard quite a few examples of this over the years, but I can't remember many examples off the top of my head. I know Vili Saarijarvi was a forward up until just a few years ago. I'm pretty sure a big name (might have even been Doughty) played forward up until he was 15 or 16.

Transitioning from positions as a top player in the world isn't that difficult, but like anything, it's a lot easier the younger you are.