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LeftWinger

Official 2018 Off Season *Rebuild* Thread

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14 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

AA and Vegas' 1st might get a quality d-man.

I can't imagine many scenarios where that would make sense for us. 

Might as well just keep AA and draft a defencemen.

 

...and I'm not even a huge AA fan.

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4 minutes ago, RightWeiner said:

I can't imagine many scenarios where that would make sense for us. 

Might as well just keep AA and draft a defencemen.

 

...and I'm not even a huge AA fan.

Right. There's the rub again.

AA + late 1st for a quality defenseman sounds reasonable enough...but when you start combing through organizations' depth charts and you consider the way GMs are fetishizing young defensemen, there are exceedingly few realistic matches that would clearly justify moving AA and the late 1st, i.e. we're probably not getting a solid top-four defenseman or a defense prospect who's more promising than Hronek or Cholowski are right now.

At best, we're probably looking at a lateral move, a wash. It's kinda depressing, but it's safe to say it's the reality. Middle-six winger with an ego who can't win board battles and is bad defensively and will probably end up in the KHL + late 1st just doesn't get you much these days.

Then again, Marc Bergevin and Peter Chiarelli are GMs. Don't stop believing.

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The fundamental problem here is that the Wings' system is extremely low on players with really substantial trade value. (Another way of saying we don't have enough high-end talent.) This means that in addition to our trade options being incredibly limited, any big trades that we could pull off probably wouldn't do much for us -- and, indeed, could easily hurt us.

Trade Larkin for a stud defenseman and now we're in need of a stud centerman, with only one other high-end centerman in the system (Rasmussen) and with no guarantee that the stud defenseman we're getting is going to work out for us the way we're hoping he will.

Trade Mantha for a stud defenseman and now we're in need of a stud scoring winger, with essentially zero comparable wingers in the system and, again, with no guarantee that the stud defenseman is going to be a stud for us.

Trade Svechnikov and you're not even getting a 1st-round pick in return. Nyquist might get us a 1st at next season's trade deadline. Trade Hronek or Cholowski and you're giving up one of our top two D prospects.

This is why I'm so excited about the next couple of drafts. The Wings have learned to scrape by in drought conditions, but now they're finally in for some heavy rain. 21(+) picks across two very deep drafts means a hell of a lot more to the Wings than it would to most other organizations. The 2018 draft alone could totally reshape our talent pool. We could double the number of Rasmussen/Cholowski/Hronek-tier prospects in our system practically overnight.

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2 hours ago, Dabura said:

This is why I'm so excited about the next couple of drafts. The Wings have learned to scrape by in drought conditions, but now they're finally in for some heavy rain. 21(+) picks across two very deep drafts means a hell of a lot more to the Wings than it would to most other organizations. The 2018 draft alone could totally reshape our talent pool. We could double the number of Rasmussen/Cholowski/Hronek-tier prospects in our system practically overnight.

I guess extending that playoff streak doesn't seem so bad now, huh? It was all part of the long con.

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13 hours ago, RightWeiner said:

I can't imagine many scenarios where that would make sense for us. 

Might as well just keep AA and draft a defencemen.

 

...and I'm not even a huge AA fan.

even if trading AA and that pick gets a #2 or 3 d-man, later 1st rounders don't generally amount to much on average, and that caliber of a d-man is more valuable than a 15-20 goal winger.

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This is the first year that I feel there is nothing out there UFA that we need to pursue, outside of JT of course. Holland had mentioned not explorer UFA, but I'm sure he'll throw an offer at him.

Maybe he'll bring Vanek back, which wouldn't be the worst thing. Him and Nielsen had pretty good chemistry before he got hurt.

But, if we got nobody and just upgraded our kids (or Svechling in the draft) then this will most definitely be a first for me not being upset if we get nobody July 1st. 

Again, if Holland does land JT  or even if he has others in mind, I also won't be upset.

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5 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

even if trading AA and that pick gets a #2 or 3 d-man, later 1st rounders don't generally amount to much on average, and that caliber of a d-man is more valuable than a 15-20 goal winger.

In the average draft...

This is supposed to be one of the deepest in years. 

I think trading a 1st in this draft would be extremely short sighted. It would have to be an absolute homerun.

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Some light end of season reading:

https://www.si.com/nhl/2018/04/17/penalty-box-history-nhl-playoffs

 

Also, if anyone hasn't heard, the Centre Ice Arena in Traverse City was blind sided last year by the NHL into having to spend $200K to upgrade both ice rinks to NHL standards. There was talk that the Wings would have to move the Prospect Tournament and Training Camp somewhere else if the remodel wasn't completed. That would be a shame as having it there in such a small, quaint atmosphere, getting that close to the players, just wouldn't be the same if it was held at LCA. It is a truly a unique experience. Imagine the Wings playing a scrimmage game at your local indoor ice rink, and bumping into and taking pictures with guys like Kris Draper, Chris Chelios, and Ken Daniels walking around. That's what it's like there. Even the worst seats are only feet from the ice surface, and you not only get to see all of the roster players (no healthy scratches) you also get to see all of the prospects.

Luckily, it appears that arena is moving forward with the renovations, which would make sense considering the city generates far more than $200K each year from the Wings being there. And the Wings have agreed to stay there for at least the next 5 years if the renovations are made. This is good news as I plan on attending both the Prospect Tournament and Training Camp this year, and maybe take in some Upper Peninsula while I'm up there. They are currently taking Private donations as well. You can read about it here:

http://themalikreport.com/2018/04/16/a-bit-more-about-centre-ice-arenas-fundraising-drive/

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It also needs to be said that the Wings aren't the only NHL team that holds prospects camp there.  I think they host 4(?) team's prospects in the tourney that comes there every year. So it would most definitely be beneficial that the arena do the upgrades. Costly, yes, but worth it IMO.

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2 hours ago, RightWeiner said:

AA for Geekie

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'd do it without hesitation.

Doubt Carolina would though...

Yeah, I really doubt Carolina would go for that. Between Skinner and Lindholm and Rask and Aho and Teravainen, they have plenty of young AA/Mantha-caliber forwards already. What they need is a true gamebreaker, which Geekie could end up being. It would sort of be like us trading Rasmussen for Kasperi Kapanen. Besides, Geekie shoots right-handed, so the Wings wouldn't have any interest in him anyway. :no2:

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13 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Yeah, I really doubt Carolina would go for that. Between Skinner and Lindholm and Rask and Aho and Teravainen, they have plenty of young AA/Mantha-caliber forwards already. What they need is a true gamebreaker, which Geekie could end up being. It would sort of be like us trading Rasmussen for Kasperi Kapanen. Besides, Geekie shoots right-handed, so the Wings wouldn't have any interest in him anyway. :no2:

This is a huge reason I'd have interest in him... :glare:

We need to inject (draft / trade for) some right-handed forwards into this lineup...

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3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'd do it without hesitation.

Doubt Carolina would though...

 

47 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Yeah, I really doubt Carolina would go for that. Between Skinner and Lindholm and Rask and Aho and Teravainen, they have plenty of young AA/Mantha-caliber forwards already. What they need is a true gamebreaker, which Geekie could end up being. It would sort of be like us trading Rasmussen for Kasperi Kapanen. Besides, Geekie shoots right-handed, so the Wings wouldn't have any interest in him anyway. :no2:

Is he that highly regarded? I'll be honest, I'd never even heard of him before this year.

He was passed over in his draft year and when he was finally drafted last year, it wasnt until the 3rd round. 

Not to mention he actually had less points this year than last. Exceptional playoffs of course.

You guys are acting like he's a blue-chipper though.

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1 minute ago, RightWeiner said:

Is he that highly regarded? I'll be honest, I'd never even heard of him before this year.

He was passed over in his draft year and when he was finally drafted last year, it wasnt until the 3rd round. 

Not to mention he actually had less points this year than last. Exceptional playoffs of course.

Fair point. I wouldn't say he's as highly regarded as Rasmussen, but it's the same idea: Rasmussen and Geekie are still unknowns with the potential to do great things five years from now, while AA and Kapanen are older and more known and likely wouldn't really give the Hurricanes or Wings anything they don't already have or couldn't get by other, cheaper means.

But then, I'm not the Hurricanes' GM, and I've certainly been wrong about countless things in the past.

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1 minute ago, Dabura said:

Fair point. I wouldn't say he's as highly regarded as Rasmussen, but it's the same idea: Rasmussen and Geekie are still unknowns with the potential to do great things five years from now, while AA and Kapanen are older and more known and likely wouldn't really give the Hurricanes or Wings anything they don't already have or couldn't get by other, cheaper means.

Right but I think there's a lot different expectations from a Top 10 pick and a 3rd round over ager. Geekie is a year older than Rasmussen and in Junior that means alot. 

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1 minute ago, RightWeiner said:

Right but I think there's a lot different expectations from a Top 10 pick and a 3rd round over ager. Geekie is a year older than Rasmussen and in Junior that means alot. 

For sure. Maybe Rasmussen was a bad comparable. But you get where I'm coming from, yeah?

Worth noting: I've liked Geekie for a while now, so I'm probably a little biased. Maybe the Hurricanes see him as just another prospect, nothing special.

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Looking at the roster, if we don't re-sign Booth or Green that leaves 2 open spots up front and 2 open spots on D for kids to make the roster 13 and 8. We also need a B/U goalie.  Do you think Holland just puts Coreau there or does he look to UFA? Are there any NCAA goalies out there that are undrafted or unsigned?

13/8/2 with Witkowski being able to rotate if needed. Bringing up 4 kids would be a good thing if we don't land JT or if Holland doesn't bring back Vanek.

 

Edited by LeftWinger

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2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Looking at the roster, if we don't re-sign Booth or Green that leaves 2 open spots up front and 2 open spots on D for kids to make the roster 13 and 8. We also need a B/U goalie.  Do you think Holland just puts Coreau there or does he look to UFA? Are there any NCAA goalies out there that are undrafted or unsigned?

13/8/2 with Witkowski being able to rotate if needed. Bringing up 4 kids would be a good thing if we don't land JT or if Holland doesn't bring back Vanek.

 

1. Green will be re-signed. Holland has essentially said so and the feelings seem mutual.

2. Coreau will not be re-signed. Holland has essentially said this and has said he will explore the UFA goalie market.

3. Rasmussen, Hicketts, Svechnikov and Turgeon are the guys we're likely to see next year. Some for more, some for less.

Almost all these topics are covered in Holland's end-of-season presser. Surprised you haven't watched  it with all these questions.  I recommend you check it out. Hear it right from the horses mouth. 

Now obviously all that could change depending on what happens at the draft and leading up to the season. 

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On 3/25/2018 at 4:50 PM, HadThomasVokounOnFortSt said:

So I didn’t know where else to put this so right here since these last handful of games mean nothing besides tank train. Apparently the Wings had a “competitive” practice today lol.

Witkowski skating in his figure skates beating up his team mates. Bash saying "the bad news is Witkowski those are your team mates" "Good news is those are your team mates"

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So, if Green is coming back, that'll leave ONE spot unless XO is dealt/waived. Still TWO up front.

What players do you guys think are going to make the jump.  I know the Ras situation, I figure he will get a spot up front, sending him back to Jrs. will just hold him back from further development. If Holland is true to his word about the kids coming in, then Ras should be on the opening night roster. Hopefully proving me wrong with his play!

Any goalies out there intrigue you guys? I'd like to see us sign one that will at least push Jimmy either to step it up (ya right) or push him right back to the bench.

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1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

So, if Green is coming back, that'll leave ONE spot unless XO is dealt/waived. Still TWO up front.

What players do you guys think are going to make the jump.  I know the Ras situation, I figure he will get a spot up front, sending him back to Jrs. will just hold him back from further development. If Holland is true to his word about the kids coming in, then Ras should be on the opening night roster. Hopefully proving me wrong with his play!

Any goalies out there intrigue you guys? I'd like to see us sign one that will at least push Jimmy either to step it up (ya right) or push him right back to the bench.

Dekeyser, Ericsson, Daley, Kronwall, Ouellete, Jensen, Green, *Witkowski, *Hicketts *Hronek

How is there a spot?

Rasmussen, Svechnikov, Turgeon up front.

Is there an echo in here?

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